Lucid dreaming ethics

**Ginko** · 12-23-2003 09:38 PM

Woa Freeky.
LOL i would talk to luciouse about that, hes funney when it comes to Dream Charecters.

Suicde is wrong.

Did you know that the bible does not support Suicide. In fact, i think somwhere in it, it says somthing like, Its not your life to take. and that you will go to hell or somthin

"WHAT, i havn't said anything for a while"

Ev · 12-23-2003 09:47 PM

Actually if you will look deeper into the bible you will find no references regarding suicide.
All that stuff about "suicide is wrong" came from christian preachers during medieval times. Imagine the shitty life of a peasant during this times...Hunger, no freedom, diseases, rat infested houses, slums... The way out? suicide.
imagine the part of the master of this peasants, who lives in a good mansion and enjoys good food/wine, have pleasures and dont have to work - how do i hold my peasants from committing suicide? torture, beatings dont work... Yes! I will go to my friend, a priest and he will do the same thing we do to little children. - He'll make them think that by escaping this world they will feel even worse...

I'm not preaching suicide - this stuff is from my suicide research, when i felt really shitty...

**Ginko** · 12-23-2003 09:59 PM

intrsting... very intrsting

**jacobo** · 12-23-2003 09:59 PM

Originally posted by Shawndow
Woa Freeky.
LOL i would talk to luciouse about that, hes funney when it comes to Dream Charecters.

Suicde is wrong.

Did you know that the bible does not support Suicide. In fact, i think somwhere in it, it says somthing like, Its not your life to take. and that you will go to hell or somthin

\"WHAT, i havn't said anything for a while\"

the bible says a lot of stuff that i'm pretty sure you don't abide by...

Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)

Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)

just to name a few.

---

suicide hurts everyone. but in a dream it could be "fixed" i guess.

**Ginko** · 12-23-2003 10:02 PM

*cough*

I think i can bend some rules when it comes to, the old testament.

do dod od

No more Bible talk, in this thread thats what the other 50 or so threads r for.

In other news, what would you do if you had a TM

Ev · 12-23-2003 10:03 PM

may i ask what is TM?

**Ginko** · 12-23-2003 10:07 PM

oops, sorry. Time Machien= TM.
You should read other threads man.
Theres alot of TM stuff going on around here

*shifts eyes*

he he, hell never know

**jacobo** · 12-23-2003 10:12 PM

**Ginko** · 12-23-2003 10:18 PM

I'm watching you.

This is me sitting on a bench Acting like im reading

**evangel** · 12-24-2003 12:38 AM

Originally posted by Ev
Actually if you will look deeper into the bible you will find no references regarding suicide.

I think it goes without saying... It is implicit that suicide is wrong. There are references to suicide in the Bible (Judas, King Saul, and one or two others) although no explicit "rule" is given that I'm aware of.

Because we do not create our own lives, we do not have the right to take them... Not to mention it is the most selfish act one can commit.

Jake:
Ritual laws of the Old Testament no longer apply to Christian believers since the law was perfectly fulfilled in Christ. What about the moral law (10 Commandments, etc.)? These still stand in principle and it should be any believer's desire to abide by them as they grow in maturity, but they are not requirements for salvation...

Oh, and Shawn, just a suggestion -Maybe instead of saying that "I think the Bible says this or that," look it up man!

**Silver Sphere** · 12-24-2003 12:41 AM

Seppuku requires balls - it's absolutely agonizing, and it's completely under your own control until your Kaishaku-nin decapitates you. I'm sure that voluntarily holding your hand in boiling water is a walk in the park by comparison. Not for me, thanks. I don't think you'd get anything near the full effect in a dream anyway.

Last night I had something of an ethical problem in my dream. I actually decided to kill someone, but then changed my mind out of pity for him. At the time he seemed rather real to me. This still all seems a little silly to me in retrospect. It's all an illusion, and I believe the situation was precipitated more by delusion than morality. I was having a little trouble passing through walls at the time, as well, and they were just as imaginary as the people in my dream were, and on top of that I had a somewhat difficult time convincing myself that I was dreaming to begin with...

Nothing but fantasies to be disabused of if you ask me. Why humor my own irrationality by pretending that dream characters are real?

**Ginko** · 12-24-2003 01:34 AM

Originally posted by evangel+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(evangel)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Ev

Actually if you will look deeper into the bible you will find no references regarding suicide.

Oh, and Shawn, just a suggestion -Maybe instead of saying that \"I think the Bible says this or that,\" look it up man!

[/b]

1. NEVER call me Shawn plz, that name is so boring. El Shawndow sounds so much better

2. As for looking up things, i know i SHOULD. But im kinda lazy.

**jacobo** · 12-24-2003 01:45 AM

Originally posted by evangel

Jake:
Ritual laws of the Old Testament no longer apply to Christian believers since the law was perfectly fulfilled in Christ. What about the moral law (10 Commandments, etc.)? These still stand in principle and it should be any believer's desire to abide by them as they grow in maturity, but they are not requirements for salvation...

Kill anyone with a different religion. (Deuteronomy 17:2-7)

would you abide by the book deuteronomy? sorry i'm not to savvy in the bible department, so i don't know what you would or would not abide by. -- it was my understanding that the bible was considered the infallible word of god. it was not just written by man, but rather written by god through man. so since god is all knowing and cannot be wrong, why is this book no longer applicable? ... im sorry to have hi-jacked the thread but i'd like to get this off my chest. i hold nothing against people who are christian, catholic, mormon, whatever. i just dont think you should use your beliefs to scold someone who might not see the world the same way you do.

**jacobo** · 12-24-2003 02:24 AM

Originally posted by Shawndow+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Shawndow)</div>

Originally posted by evangel@
<!--QuoteBegin-Ev

Actually if you will look deeper into the bible you will find no references regarding suicide.

Oh, and Shawn, just a suggestion -Maybe instead of saying that \"I think the Bible says this or that,\" look it up man!

1. NEVER call me Shawn plz, that name is so boring. El Shawndow sounds so much better

2. As for looking up things, i know i SHOULD. But im kinda lazy.[/b]

yes yes, jake is so bland... i prefer El Guapo!

**Tim** · 12-24-2003 03:11 AM

"would you say that i have a plethora of pinatas?"
"uumm, sure"
"do you know what a plethora is?"
"no, el guapo"
"why would you say that i have a plethora of pinatas if you dont know WHAT A PLETHORA IS?!"

sorry, but i had to put that in

if you dont know what im talking about, you are not cool enough.

**jacobo** · 12-24-2003 03:15 AM

Originally posted by Tim

if you dont know what im talking about, you are not cool enough.

amen brother!

**GestaltAlteration** · 12-24-2003 03:46 AM

Hell! there shouldent be any Rules in dreaming! do whatever the hell you want for its the only time in any reality that you can. Dreaming ethics are for those with overly large conciouses. Im a christian and I really dont think anything Is "wrong" with anything you do while Sleeping.

**Tim** · 12-24-2003 03:49 AM

amen to THAT

**Serinanth** · 12-24-2003 05:16 AM

"si my lil mule!"

Lol good stuff guys.

Suess I have an overtly large consience. Also the fact that I see the dream world as another reality adds to that consience there, also I have faced concequences that added to it too..
I duno why its different to me but it is, there are reactions to your actions there, just like here.

Besides, thats what Video games are for, Yes I play GTA3 and yes I am a Bad.. bad.. man =)
lol you see the Dave shapell show? Where he went on about GTA lol classic haha.

**Tim** · 12-24-2003 05:25 AM

yeah! that chapelle show was funny funny. how he made the guns appear and stuff and then at the end "ok, bye honey"

**Lucius** · 12-24-2003 11:04 AM

Regardless of what reality or plane, suicide will be invane..lalala

What im trying to say, suicide is useless. It doesnt solve problems as you will have to live with yourself and your negative hate for yourself in the next dimension so I woulnt recommend doing it due to a shitty life.
And if you do it in the astral well I havnt completely read everything so I dont really know the reason but you know how I think about it..over there to, its just the same as over here. Like seri said "there are reactions to your actions there, just like here." And I vet those reactions wont be good, unless you live among demons ^_^

**Lowercase Society** · 12-24-2003 03:48 PM

Originally posted by GestaltAlteration
Hell! there shouldent be any Rules in dreaming! do whatever the hell you want for its the only time in any reality that you can. Dreaming ethics are for those with overly large conciouses. Im a christian and I really dont think anything Is \"wrong\" with anything you do while Sleeping.

Im going to start a 'DREAM POLICE ACADAMY' and get yoU! :yumdumdoodledum:

I dont want to talk to you anymore, im afraid of what i say. Every time you come around i bite my tongue, cause blood in my mouth beats blood on the ground[/b]

**evangel** · 12-24-2003 08:04 PM

Originally posted by adidas

Kill anyone with a different religion. (Deuteronomy 17:2-7)

would you abide by the book deuteronomy? sorry i'm not to savvy in the bible department, so i don't know what you would or would not abide by. -- it was my understanding that the bible was considered the infallible word of god. ... i just dont think you should use your beliefs to scold someone who might not see the world the same way you do.

Those things in Deuteronomy WERE applicable to the nation of Israel (past tense). Should Christians still abide by them? Nope. The Old Testament in all its intricacies and supposed contradictions points to one thing... the coming of a savior (messiah) who would deliver His people (Israel) from the bondage of sin -which is only made evident by the laws of God (in other words, we do not know that what we do is wrong unless it is revealed to us by God because we are blind to sin). Yes, I believe the Bible is the infallible Word, but that doesn't mean that it should be literally abided by or interpretted -especially in regards to the Old Testament. I believe that the "harsh" instances where Israel was instructed by God to kill still have value - They show the seriousness of God's will/attitude toward sin and the weight of his judgment of sin... and eventually, the utter importance of Christ and his sacrifice. I only "scold" Shawndow because I know he and I share the same intrinsic beliefs. I would never scold someone who does not believe. At the same time, I will not water down what I believe for the sake of political correctness. I state my beliefs plainly as they are, as long as there is a question or an interest. If that "interest" is to degrade or to argue for the sake of argument... Figgit aboudit. 8) At the same time, I think we should not be overly conscious of political correctness ("tolerance" ?

) to the point where I stifle or compromise my obligation to be a witness and testimony for Christ. Whew! I'll pm any further comments unless the're directly related to the thread...