Thread: DreamViews: Lucid Dream Book Project - Want in?

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Guys and girls, girls and guys gather around for a big surprise, a lucid dreaming book is what we are making and for you to be a part of DV history is yours for the taking! Just go here and apply for staff and pretty soon LD'ers will want your autograph! http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=79992

1. Are you interested in working full time or part time on this project? full time

2. Are you a good editor? I have written many books and short stories. I have edited peoples' works also, but I don't have them on my comp. I will soon.

3. Are you a good writer? Four years of english and a year of Fiction, also years of my own previous writing? Damn well should be.

4. Is organization one of your strong suits? Half and half

5. List any prior experience you may have had regarding working on a book. Again, I've written short stories and I have started and finished a book or two.

6. Is lucid dreaming a strong suit of yours? Yes

7. Are you good at brainstorming? Yes. Setting off fire alarms? My brother does that

8. Do you remain current on lucid dreaming studies and new information regarding the subject in general? I'm up to date but not news central.

9. Is graphic designing a strong suit of yours? Oh sheesh. Two years of MultiMedia DigitalDesign and I swear if that doesnt pay off I'm suing my school. I've worked in adobe photoshop, flash, dreamweaver, illustrator, and indesign, I'm trained in that.

10. What do you feel you could bring to the table on this project? Insight, design, editing. How do you feel you'll be of most help? Design and editing.

11. Additional comments you'd like to add.
Please note the two years in MultiMediaDigitalDesign. I'm in the process of making my own website and I'll get my work up there and link you to it... just let me know if I should hurry on it or not.

I don't spend enough time on the internet to help write, unfortunately, but I will tell you this: Part of the thrill of lucid dreaming is that it makes you special; apart from everyone else. You can have this ability that other people would kill for, if they knew its full potential. For this reason, many people, including me, would oppose lucid dreaming's popularization. I think if this project is finished that the money should not be spent on advertising. However, you and the DV staff and anyone else with a say in the matter should spend it how you wish. Do not think badly of me; this is merely my opinion.

D.S.

Originally Posted by Dream scientist

I don't spend enough time on the internet to help write, unfortunately, but I will tell you this: Part of the thrill of lucid dreaming is that it makes you special; apart from everyone else. You can have this ability that other people would kill for, if they knew its full potential. For this reason, many people, including me, would oppose lucid dreaming's popularization. I think if this project is finished that the money should not be spent on advertising. However, you and the DV staff and anyone else with a say in the matter should spend it how you wish. Do not think badly of me; this is merely my opinion.

D.S.

I dont think badly of anyone who voices a helpful opinion. So perish the thought. Very little has been discussed regarding who'll get the royalties for this book. Though, the idea of donating the money (or a portion of it) to a charity or LD based research program has been mentioned. To be honest though, we're still too far in the preliminary stages to begin seriously contemplating how any monetary gains will be dispersed.

Very true.

Ok, I don't like being negative but,

Won't this project basically:

Stop the writers from posting their best ideas on the dreamviews (free) forum,
and then charge us all for buying it?

And who gets the money?
The web design company who own the site?

The internet is such a handy tool for freely sharing ideas on the subject,
who exactly gains from putting what could easily be shared for free online, and then selling it?

Sees to me it would involve a lot of dead trees, a bunch of ideas written in a format that can't be discussed or develop, expense for those who want to read the book (rather than the free sharing of ideas online) etc. etc.

Personally, I think anyone who is interested in getting involved, should seriously ask themselves... who is going to gain from this?

If you're just looking to boost your ego, and don't care about selling out your ideas and time earning money for other people... go for it.
If on the other hand you enjoy the free sharing of ideas for the sake of sharing information freely online with others - then just post in the forum

surely?

I agree with spaceexplorer

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

-

That's a fair comment.

However, not everyone has access to this website 24/7. It is a great idea to condense all the information we have gathered into a book for people to read whenever they like.
And if you don't want the book, don't buy it. All the information will still be here on the site.

People like options, and that's what we are giving.


As for the money, it will go straight back into producing more books. As for the left over, we haven't really discussed it yet. But I assume it will go into running the site.. you know keeping the servers up.

What are the chances my post vanishes?

What this also makes me think is:

For all of us who post on dreamview, and also the authors of original methods like MILD by laberge....

Are these people (us!) going to be consulted about information we have freely shared on this forum, if it used in the book, reworded or otherwise (or in the case of the experts are probably copywrite)?

Is the book going to have to rename methods like WILD and MILD?
Because these are staples to the lucid dreaming community and are the intellectual property of the creator of the methods.
Not to mention the many many other techniques out there by independant authors.

The idea of appealing to people egos as "wanna be writers"
to get them to work for free, for the financial and promotional gain of the owners of this website, is to me quite vile.

I for one will make a formal request that every post i have made on this forum be removed if this project goes ahead. I will also actively make sure that the authors of any well known lucid dreaming methods or concepts mentioned in the book are aware of their intellectual property being used without their consent.

It is one thing to share information freely and in a discussion forum on the internet. It is an altogether different thing to use the years of many, many peoples freely given time posting, to make profit for others.

If i had known that a project like this was on the horizon, I would never have given my time to DreamViews. I feel it is an abuse of the trust of people who use this forum.

And if the argument is "only the writers ideas and opinions will be expressed in the book" then, what on earth is the point of it?

Without methods like MILD, WILD, WBTB etc. etc.
and the many freely shared ideas that have been expressed on this forum over the years, what information is the book going to contain?

The whole thing is going to be a legal minefield once people start noticing their ideas being published as someone elses work in a charged for book.

I sort of agree with spaceexplorer. The entire point of this forum is to spread/discuss the things that would be published in the book.

Originally Posted by mrdeano

However, not everyone has access to this website 24/7. It is a great idea to condense all the information we have gathered into a book for people to read whenever they like.

Copy/paste + Printer. Even better because they can choose from a wide variety of tutorials and opinions on the same subject.

What some people don't realize is the actual amount of money that is needed to run a website like this.
Dreamviews was set up for people like you for free. Putting in their own time and effort so that you can experience lucid dreaming and this is how you treat them?

One another note.

spaceexplorer, would you still have the same opinion if the book was free?

Originally Posted by mrdeano

What some people don't realize is the actual amount of money that is needed to run a website like this.
Dreamviews was set up for people like you for free. Putting in their own time and effort so that you can experience lucid dreaming and this is how you treat them?

Wait, what, not wanting to do work to make the people who maintain this website for profit make more money?

EDIT: Well forget what I said up here....DV would be getting some profit...

And what about the many other LD books out there that use coined names made known by LaBerge and others?

Originally Posted by mrdeano

What some people don't realize is the actual amount of money that is needed to run a website like this.
Dreamviews was set up for people like you for free. Putting in their own time and effort so that you can experience lucid dreaming and this is how you treat them?

One another note.

spaceexplorer, would you still have the same opinion if the book was free?

This website was bought off the original creator by a web company.
It was obviously seen as a sound financial or promotional investment by them.
I am sure they are shrewd businessmen.
I personaly do not like the idea of people ideas and time being used to make money for others, under the not so subtle guise of "sharing information".

Thoughts, posts, information are all valuable commodities.
We have all given plenty of these FOR FREE to this website.
The website itself is popular only because of the continued free information provided by its users. It is taking advantage of peoples wish to freely share information, to then use it to make money.
They will already be making money through advertising, and also if nothing else, dreamviews is a popular site, that no doubt has big promotional advantages to a company specialising in web design etc.

Dreamviews may have minor costs to run (I've run a popular gaming website in the past, and the costs really are very minimal, and advertising more than covers these. I would imagine a web design company, as owns dreamviews, has even lower overheads, if any, in maintaining the site... especially as it is moderated by unpaid members.)

In response to your question "if the book was free?"
How exactly are you going to sell a book for free?

No, personally I think the idea is morally flawed on many levels.

Could a moderator or site owner, please explain to me the process I would need to go through to remove all my previous posts from this forum?
I know it's possible, having experience in web design, forum hosting and IT myself. This is a serious question as I may need to request this in the near future.

Originally Posted by Snowy Egypt

EDIT: Well forget what I said up here....DV would be getting some profit...

And what about the many other LD books out there that use coined names made known by LaBerge and others?

Not "made known"
but CREATED BY.

And most of these books will ask permision of the authors of such material.
Permision to use others work can be granted on various levels. Will dreamviews be willing to offer the original creators of the well known techniques royalties?

Not only this, but this book will be in direct competiton to the work of established, proven researchers in the field. Many of whom will be reliant on their publications to continue their work. Perhaps they won't be so happy with the idea?

But more close to home, how many of us forum users are happy with our own posts and ideas being used to make others profit?

I personally, request that all my posts and references to my posts (including quotes) be removed from the forum database if this project is going to go ahead. I have at no point ever agreed that my time spent sharing ideas in this freely accessable public forum ever be used in a profit making published work.

In my experience most of the people on this site aren't egotistical, or assholes, and definitely not those in the management. I would be fairly confident that all copyrights will be taking care of, and all finders (and co-finders) of all the various techniques and observations will be accreditted accordingly. And if they aren't! My bad

Edit: Speaking on behalf of noone, i'd assume that if anyone wishes to make a profit from their findings they would request to do so, and with the creation of a book, it would probably be a sound investment.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

But more close to home, how many of us forum users are happy with our own posts and ideas being used to make others profit?

I personally, request that all my posts and references to my posts (including quotes) be removed from the forum database if this project is going to go ahead. I have at no point ever agreed that my time spent sharing ideas in this freely accessable public forum ever be used in a profit making published work.

I wouldn't want any of the ideas I've contributed being bought/sold by someone else. Especially if someone profits from it. Even if I get credit every single time.

Originally Posted by Lucid fanatic

In my experience most of the people on this site aren't egotistical, or assholes, and definitely not those in the management. I would be fairly confident that all copyrights will be taking care of, and all finders (and co-finders) of all the various techniques and observations will be accreditted accordingly. And if they aren't! My bad

So of all the 23,753 current members, each of these people will be contacted if one of their unique ideas is put into publication (for the profit and promotion of the owners of the site.)

And not only that, will these people, and their freely shared work, be credited with a fair share of the profit?
Will they even be credited with the use of their birth name?

That's one hell of a task in itself.

The whole thing will run into trouble, the moment one or two members decide to take legal action. It's perfectly possible, in fact highly probable.

All I see this doing is making the intelligent, creative forum users think twice before sharing any new information they have come across on this site. It's one thing to share ideas freely within a community where you are likely to learn as much as you share. It's another thing completely to have your ideas used for the profit and promotion of another mans business.

Let's also not forget the figures here:

If only half the members of the forum bought a copy of the book,
and the book was only $10 (and if it's hardback, lets face it it'll be more)

So members = 23375
divided by two = 11877.5


11877.5 x $10 = $118,755


That would be $118,775

Just from HALF the forum members alone.

Correct me if i'm wrong, that was just quick maths...
But that's in itself is a lot of money to make off the back of other peoples work and ideas.

And i'm pretty sure web servers, coffee and cake don't cost that much a year. In fact, having run a popular gaming website forum in the past, with roughly the same amount of traffic and users as DreamViews, I know for a fact the costs of running a site like this are minimal, compared to the revenue that can be gathered through advertising. We're talking no more than a couple hundred dollars a year maximum (please people feel free to check around at current hosting packages and their prices, obviously take in mind extra for bandwidth)

The whole thing seems like a very clever scam to make money off the good people of this forum, who shared their ideas freely and in good faith.

So the idea is basically this:

Take your ideas.... sell them back to you.

Who ends up looking like an idiot in this scenario?

US.

Wake up people.
This is the same as someone stealing your wallet and trying to sell it back to you.

1,661 active members.
divided by 2 : 830.5

830.5 x 10 =

$8 305

Originally Posted by mrdeano

1,661 active members.

Regardless of if a user is active or not, those non active will have invested time, thought and effort into posting.

Are you saying it's ok to use peoples ideas and sell them, as long as they don't use the site any more?

And if you are refering to the maths in my previous post... well there is a big market for books on dreaming, so the numbers and profit would be much higher in reality. I was trying to make an example of the sums of cash being made even on a small scale.

Regardless of how much the owners of the site make... they are STILL MAKING MONEY FROM THE HARD WORK AND INTELLECTUAL MATERIAL OF PEOPLE WHO NEVER CONSENTED TO THEIR WORK BEING USED IN SUCH A FASHION.

I stand by the statement that this book is essentially:

Taking peoples ideas and words then selling them back to them.

Or in other words... taking us all for fools.

... What if its a dam fine wallet? Sorry, that was just for kicks. I san see flaws everywhere there but the idea your concept is the same so i'd be a fool to correct you.... Nonetheless, in the event that the book goes into production i have pages upon pages of the stripped down facts at hand so i refuse to argue

Firstly, thank you for expressing your concerns spaceexplorer. Through your questions, I hope to clear up a few things you (and others viewing) may be thinking.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Ok, I don't like being negative but,

Won't this project basically:

Stop the writers from posting their best ideas on the dreamviews (free) forum,
and then charge us all for buying it?

No. The information that we DO use from this site will have the permission of the author before it's included into the book. The book will NOT be a copy/paste of information on Dreamviews. There will be extensive research (via our research department) that will largely included in the book. And the techniques posted in our forum (The lucid dream book project forum) have the authors expressed permission for our use. Don't forget, although the internet is very populated and has a lot of free information...there's also milions of book stores and users on Amazon.com with a large populace of people seeking books as well. Lucid dreaming is still a fairly new concept to mainstream society and that's another purpose of this book, to chip at the wall a bit more. The last great book on lucid dreaming (and probably the most notable one) was Stephen Laberge's book. It's a great book but also greatly outdated. That's why we're releasing more information to an audience of people (who may or may not use the internet to access information) outside of the internet.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

And who gets the money?
The web design company who own the site?

The internet is such a handy tool for freely sharing ideas on the subject,
who exactly gains from putting what could easily be shared for free online, and then selling it?

The project is still much too in its infant stages to begin serious talks about who'll be pocketing royalty checks. However, - I and a few others are slightly fond of the idea of donating a portion of the money to charity or lucid dreaming research programs. I would however like to emphasize the first sentence in this paragraph though.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Seems to me it would involve a lot of dead trees, a bunch of ideas written in a format that can't be discussed or develop, expense for those who want to read the book (rather than the free sharing of ideas online) etc. etc.

Oh come now. This is hardly worth replying to, and I say that with utmost resect. By this logic alone, every book store in the world is committing heinous crimes by harboring such nature killer's.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Personally, I think anyone who is interested in getting involved, should seriously ask themselves... who is going to gain from this?

The reader. That's who. You seem too overly concerned about the proceeds from this, which warrants a brow raise. Next question.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

If you're just looking to boost your ego, and don't care about selling out your ideas and time earning money for other people... go for it.
If on the other hand you enjoy the free sharing of ideas for the sake of sharing information freely online with others - then just post in the forum

surely?

Once again, the internet is just one market. We're not out to stroke anyone's ego's except that of the topic of Lucid dreaming. That's what we're seeking to glorify. The forum is still up for use and if you (which I doubt you do) have any information on this board that we'd like to use, you will be asked beforehand and credit will be given where credit is due.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

What are the chances my post vanishes?

What this also makes me think is:

For all of us who post on dreamview, and also the authors of original methods like MILD by laberge....

Are these people (us!) going to be consulted about information we have freely shared on this forum, if it used in the book, reworded or otherwise (or in the case of the experts are probably copywrite)?

Is the book going to have to rename methods like WILD and MILD?
Because these are staples to the lucid dreaming community and are the intellectual property of the creator of the methods.
Not to mention the many many other techniques out there by independant authors.

The idea of appealing to people egos as "wanna be writers"
to get them to work for free, for the financial and promotional gain of the owners of this website, is to me quite vile.

I for one will make a formal request that every post i have made on this forum be removed if this project goes ahead. I will also actively make sure that the authors of any well known lucid dreaming methods or concepts mentioned in the book are aware of their intellectual property being used without their consent.

It is one thing to share information freely and in a discussion forum on the internet. It is an altogether different thing to use the years of many, many peoples freely given time posting, to make profit for others.

If i had known that a project like this was on the horizon, I would never have given my time to DreamViews. I feel it is an abuse of the trust of people who use this forum.

And if the argument is "only the writers ideas and opinions will be expressed in the book" then, what on earth is the point of it?

Without methods like MILD, WILD, WBTB etc. etc.
and the many freely shared ideas that have been expressed on this forum over the years, what information is the book going to contain?

The whole thing is going to be a legal minefield once people start noticing their ideas being published as someone elses work in a charged for book.

The legitimate non-paranoid and rational questions within this post have largely been answered in my first replies.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Could a moderator or site owner, please explain to me the process I would need to go through to remove all my previous posts from this forum?
I know it's possible, having experience in web design, forum hosting and IT myself. This is a serious question as I may need to request this in the near future.

It's possible but that won't happen. And frankly speaking, I think you are crying wolf in a land with no animals present at all. Should you have any rational, and legitimate questions that I have not already answered, you are more than welcome to post again or PM me.

Edit: And should we (the staff) decide to personally profit from this project...the staff will all equally be compensated as well as those whose techniques we have used.