Can you guys believe this

[kingerman]

While i was googling lucid dreaming i came across a Wiccan(witchcraft site) and they actually consider Lucid Dreaming as a spell and ritual.This kinda conflicts what Lucid Dreaming really is (making it associated with dark arts) and brings this practice down. Here's the link to the web page http://www.witchway.net/ Spells and rituals:http://www.witchway.net/ritual/ritual.html

[Naiya]

Hmm, they list it under rituals, but it looks like they just grouped together everything that has anything to do with their practices. In other words it's just laziness in how they made the website. Because when I looked at the lucid dreaming page, there was no spell, just something they quoted from LaBerg. I don't really see how including lucid dreaming as part of your religious practices would be stupid, quite the contrary. Instead of sitting in a chair listening to someone tell you how to be spiritual, you can dream and ask your own subconscious what's right for you instead. Wiccans would not be the first people who have used lucid dreaming as a spiritual practice. Check out the book The Secret History of Dreaming by Robert Moss for more information on dreaming in different religious practices. Also, I'd like to point out that Wicca typically has nothing to do with "dark arts." Being pagan and practicing magick does not necesarily have anything to do with "dark" arts. Secularists like us don't own lucid dreaming--if other people want to include it in their religious practices we have no right to tell them not to.

[Harper]

Um, Wicca is a religion, not a "dark art". You need to be more careful in insulting other people's beliefs. A lot of people would consider all of us completely nuts for trying to LD, honestly. I have many friends who are Pagan or Wiccan and they are the truest friends and some of the best, kindest people I've ever known. A lot of them are very active in environmental and social justice causes because of their beliefs. Nothing "dark" about that and I don't think their involvement in those things brings those efforts down.

[Maria92]

Ah, it's a .net site. I don't trust those at all. Any geek with a modem can get one of those. Don't even like to click on them... Yeah, people have used lucid dreaming for religious purposes for a long time...me, I'm going to use it for fun! I'm talking raining gumballs and truffles, here! Yeah, don't like it when people try to turn LD into something "mystical" or "spiritual." It gives it that weird kind of vibe.

[Kordan]

Um, Wicca is a religion, not a "dark art". You need to be more careful in insulting other people's beliefs. A lot of people would consider all of us completely nuts for trying to LD, honestly. I have many friends who are Pagan or Wiccan and they are the truest friends and some of the best, kindest people I've ever known. A lot of them are very active in environmental and social justice causes because of their beliefs. Nothing "dark" about that and I don't think their involvement in those things brings those efforts down. I completely agree. Even if you don't agree with Wiccans, you can still respect them...in fact, I had a friend whose mom was Wiccan, and she was just like a second mother to me (right next to my hard-core Christian mom). I've met all sorts of Pagans and Wiccans, and I would venture to say that they are, often, better people that your run-of-the-mill Christian, or secularist (is that a word?) because they are regularly faced with opposition about their beliefs. There is NOTHING dark or Satanic about them...and they are responsible, contributing members of society. It's only ignorant, closed minded individuals who try and keep others from practicing their beleifs. And, as an aside, we aren't the only ones who can practice lucid dreaming. In fact it was "crazy religiousists" (again, I think I just made up a word with "religiousists") who first documented and really made an effort to have LD's in the first place. So one might say that we were taking it from them, and perverting/misusing a religious practice/event/ritual with our casual usage of it for entertainment. (Not my belief, as I also like to have fun in my LD's but still, merits consideration). THE KEY IS TOLERANCE!!! And the sooner we knock that into the heads of everyone out there we might actually progress as a species (to all of the grumpy, militant monkeys of the world).

[Marvo]

I quote myself in signatures.

[Kordan]

Me too

[My Other Brain]

Yeah, I used to be a Pagan (well, I was an occultist). While I don't practice it any more, I notice that periods of intense magical preparation for this one ritual I did often kick started a periods of intense dreaming. In fact, it was through this experience that I learnt to fly in lucid dreams. I know that is a crazy thing to say. What I achieved through religion I could have got much more easily through other practices. But such is life. Lots of people have a lot of different thoughts about dreaming. Its why I love the topic, dreaming is a personal experience. If people want to make it a religious thing, I can't see any harm in that.