Thread: Enlightenment - Quick Guide

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

Like I said it's not my goal to define enlightenment. I'm simply trying to cut out excess words and traditions from a valuable practice so it can be laid out in a broad and simple way.

As I said before, that's basically what Buddha did. He took all the mystical crap out of Hinduism and made Buddhism.

But another tip I have found pretty good is one I read a couple of years ago.
Which is how to clear your head of the internal dialogue.

You basically just practice with not thinking with your internal voice for a couple of seconds.
Then you just slowly build it up, 10 seconds, a minute, a minute thirty etc.

I've mentioned this to a couple of people and they think that that will basically stop them from being able to think. But it's the exact opposite. It allows you to think much more quickly because your not talking yourself through everything. It is a massive and common misconception that it helps you.

After you realise this, and quiet your inner dialogue, it is much easier to live in the moment, in fact it almost comes naturally.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

Like I said it's not my goal to define enlightenment. I'm simply trying to cut out excess words and traditions from a valuable practice so it can be laid out in a broad and simple way. A la Eckhart Tolle but I don't even think it takes a book to do so. Maybe it's coming off arrogant, but I think excess words are just polluting people's heads when we're trying to achieve the opposite ends. Perhaps telling people it's simple pulls them the wrong direction, as it's certainly not easy. But I think it can be understood easily.

Like tommo said, the Buddha laid this out for us. He even constructed the path in very short and easily remembered lists.. "the noble eightfold path" .. "the three trainings" ... this is and probably was instrumental in the teachings / tradition surviving so long, as it can be easily remembered and passed on orally even when written teachings may be destroyed, lost, or decay. The path to enlightenment is extremely simple. One simply practices morality, concentration, and insight. Morality is laid out pretty clearly, you can find more on this if you google "sila". There are extremely simple and effective meditation techniques for concentration, and insight. Examples are what I've already described earlier... for concentration: counting breaths, kasina practice... for insight.. vipassana noting practice. So it's not as if the path is complex, it is almost TOO simple.. people scoff at it because of it's simplicity. And it's certainly more helpful to give more specific instruction as yogi's become more adept.

But really it's just a matter of dedicating yourself to these very simple practices, and doing them consistently / persistently. Just like any great task, we chip away at it one bit at a time, repetition. The buddha may have used the analogy "filling a bucket one drop at a time". ^__^ As long as you are following the meditation instructions properly, you don't even need an intellectual framework or philosophical understanding.. insight naturally arises from these practices. So... the path has been laid out VERY clearly, and simply, it's only a matter of being willing to commit and follow the instructions.

I think Eckhart Tolle makes it as simple as it can get. Simpler than Buddha. Live in the present moment...nothing else. If you think of a bubble that surrounds you..that's your thoughts..your ego.....the mind, the whole point is to place your focus and attention outside of that bubble. The whole point is to live outside of the mind. I remember reading something by Carlos Castaneda saying basically dwelling upon the self, which would be living inside that "bubble" produces a terrible fatigue. It all makes perfect sense really, but if you've never been outside that bubble it might be hard, if not impossible to comprehend for the average person.

Ordinary human state is consciousness that is attached to thoughts and perceptions.

Enlightened state is complete freedom from those thoughts. I.e. to be non-attached.

The quick guide to peace is to be willing to surrender all attachments to thoughts; fears and judgements. When we release them, it becomes apparent that they were not entirely real, and we are free from them. Do not try to resolve those perceptions with more perceptions, that is another trick of the mind and an error. The thoughts can exist or not, it makes no difference because they are just appearances and we are not subject to them. This can also be called forgiveness, because we must give up our judgements on others, while in the same vein those judgements are released from ourselves. Without examining our thoughts, we are in the momentum to believe in them automatically, often creating suffering.

Originally Posted by Fredfredburger

First of all, I think that escaping all desires, is unrealistic. The fact that you eat warm food and sleep in a bed show that you have desire.

Instead, do to much thought, I think we should embrace and do what we desire, while accepting that bad things happen and learn from them. There is no true escape from desire, for it is the drive that keeps all of us from curling up and dieing.

That is only a step I believe is wrong. For enlightenment, we should enjoy the things we like to do and not let the bad drag us down. Also we should treat others like we our selvs like to be treated. Enjoying life and striving to be the best, most loving caring person you can be, is the key to enlightenment.

It is true to be the most loving person you can be is a great virtue towards enlightenment. But in the rest of your post you are talking more about acceptance and enthusiasm more than releasing desires. While acceptance itself is powerful, a more radical acceptance will be more fruitful for enlightenment.

There are many things that are required for enlightenment that people think are completely unrealistic, and that is one reason why they do no become enlightened. Because they don't understand how extraordinary it is. You don't think there is an end to desires? Then how is there ever going to be an end to suffering and craving and wanting? Enlightenment is the freedom. What do you think bliss is? Being perfectly and ineffably content beyond time. Being at absolute peace. That's escaping desires, but also fears and grief. The enlightened person is not identified with the body and therefore less inclined to survive. But it makes no difference to them; they have discovered their true source of unending life. Don't get me wrong though, it is possible to reach that state and learn to live in the world at the same time.

Originally Posted by enso

Like tommo said, the Buddha laid this out for us. He even constructed the path in very short and easily remembered lists.. "the noble eightfold path" .. "the three trainings" ... this is and probably was instrumental in the teachings / tradition surviving so long, as it can be easily remembered and passed on orally even when written teachings may be destroyed, lost, or decay. The path to enlightenment is extremely simple. One simply practices morality, concentration, and insight. Morality is laid out pretty clearly, you can find more on this if you google "sila". There are extremely simple and effective meditation techniques for concentration, and insight. Examples are what I've already described earlier... for concentration: counting breaths, kasina practice... for insight.. vipassana noting practice. So it's not as if the path is complex, it is almost TOO simple.. people scoff at it because of it's simplicity. And it's certainly more helpful to give more specific instruction as yogi's become more adept.

But really it's just a matter of dedicating yourself to these very simple practices, and doing them consistently / persistently. Just like any great task, we chip away at it one bit at a time, repetition. The buddha may have used the analogy "filling a bucket one drop at a time". ^__^ As long as you are following the meditation instructions properly, you don't even need an intellectual framework or philosophical understanding.. insight naturally arises from these practices. So... the path has been laid out VERY clearly, and simply, it's only a matter of being willing to commit and follow the instructions.

I had my first breakthrough with mindfulness 5 years ago where, through studying Buddhism, I figured out the same idea Tommo mentioned Maybe it's me personally, but I found the teachings a little inaccessible at first and had to find more modernized writings in order to understand what mindfulness was or what enlightenment was. This is my attempt to share these modernized approaches in order to help others who find 4000 year old speakers to be inaccessible. It's also a matter of escaping raw faith and understanding why the process is necessary for every one rather than just sticking to the practice for the sake of achieving what Buddha had.

Originally Posted by Majestic

I think Eckhart Tolle makes it as simple as it can get. Simpler than Buddha. Live in the present moment...nothing else. If you think of a bubble that surrounds you..that's your thoughts..your ego.....the mind, the whole point is to place your focus and attention outside of that bubble. The whole point is to live outside of the mind. I remember reading something by Carlos Castaneda saying basically dwelling upon the self, which would be living inside that "bubble" produces a terrible fatigue. It all makes perfect sense really, but if you've never been outside that bubble it might be hard, if not impossible to comprehend for the average person.

Eckhart Tolle definitely has a profoundly universal way to describe the how and why.

Originally Posted by Majestic

I think Eckhart Tolle makes it as simple as it can get. Simpler than Buddha. Live in the present moment...nothing else. If you think of a bubble that surrounds you..that's your thoughts..your ego.....the mind, the whole point is to place your focus and attention outside of that bubble. The whole point is to live outside of the mind. I remember reading something by Carlos Castaneda saying basically dwelling upon the self, which would be living inside that "bubble" produces a terrible fatigue. It all makes perfect sense really, but if you've never been outside that bubble it might be hard, if not impossible to comprehend for the average person.

Majestic, I'm not very familiar with Eckhart Tolle, but I think that what he basically teaches is a non-dual teaching, as it would be called from a buddhist perspective. That is a direct path, but there's more to it than just "live in the present moment". We can be fully present, but lacking wisdom / insight. Being fully present is somewhat enmeshed with at least some minimal level of concentration, however this in no way guarantees or reflects what enlightenment is the way I see it. Basically being fully present is a way of pointing to the foundation of awakening, and that is mindfulness practice. So mindfulness is the foundation, the key and the logical starting point. But mindfulness does not contain fully what awakening is, altho it is a very integral part of it.

Referring to the bubble you speak of, it is a mistake to think that we should somehow avoid our internal mind / activity, and focus solely externally. That would really create quite a mess. Mindfulness or being fully present fully includes and recognizes all of our internal and external experience. It is only fatiguing to dwell internally, if we are doing it wrong. =P By this I mean, if we are caught up in our internal dialogue, to the point where it distracts us from being present, to where it distorts our view of the world.. If we are clinging to our internal views or activity ... wanting the external to align with the internal.. and giving rise to suffering in this manner.. this is fatiguing. But, if we are aware of our internal activity with mindfulness, presence, and equanimity, this is no problem at all. In fact, most spiritual paths take this as their object.. bodily sensations. This is the ideal and best way to practice and get results.. to be mindful of our internal physical sensations or experience. Thoughts are more slippery, so most practices focus on physical sensations. Nevertheless, this I still consider "internal".

When we get to higher levels of realization, we start to gain insight into the non-dual nature of reality.. and this is when that "bubble" actually starts to dissolve away. We begin to see that we were only manufacturing the illusion of a separate self. That he bubble never really existed between the internal and external world. We eventually "ditch the split" when we see through the illusion of a separate self, this bubble collapses and we see reality truely as it is.

So it is not so much "dwelling upon the self" / bubble that is the problem, but dwelling upon the bubble / self while not understanding that the bubble or the sense of a separate self is in fact an illusion arising out of lack of understanding into the true nature of things. In this sense, to try and focus the attention only externally, as you describe it, is actually contrary to awakening, and only reinforces a false view and separate sense of self.. which is the most basic problem that causes our deepest suffering to begin with.

I had my first breakthrough with mindfulness 5 years ago where, through studying Buddhism, I figured out the same idea Tommo mentioned Maybe it's me personally, but I found the teachings a little inaccessible at first and had to find more modernized writings in order to understand what mindfulness was or what enlightenment was. This is my attempt to share these modernized approaches in order to help others who find 4000 year old speakers to be inaccessible. It's also a matter of escaping raw faith and understanding why the process is necessary for every one rather than just sticking to the practice for the sake of achieving what Buddha had.

I agree, I found the traditional language and culture surrounding the buddhist teachings to be rather inaccessible to newcomers as well. Once you have established a long term practice and have done a lot of research into the original texts, it turns out they really do describe the path very well and accurately. There are a lot of great modern teachers who make the practice much more initially accessible to newcomers, however then you are going through a middle man so to speak, so the instruction you receive will only be effective relative to their competence.

So in this sense it is important to find a competent modern teacher. There are some great communities online full of helpful direction to this end. I have found the community surrounding the book I mentioned earlier, the dharmaoverground, to be a good community. Another great community is KennethFolkDharma. Shinzen Young is another excellent, competent teacher. You can't go wrong if you are willing to follow instructions and get involved with these communities. It takes some degree of initial trust and willingness to follow the teachers instruction before you are able to verify things for yourself, but if you persist you will.

I wanted research things for myself beforehand, so I ended up putting a lot of time trying to make sense of the traditional teachings and texts before I eventually arrived at modern teachers / communities who I could tell were legit. Depending on your personal character, this may or may not be the right course for you. In short, yes I think that it is a great benefit to find a modern teacher who can separate out the technologies or practice instruction, from all of the ritual / cultural aspects, and present them clearly in modern language. We are extremely fortunate to have enlightened teachers like this available to us today. May you Awaken!

metta!

enso

P.S check out Shinzen Young's youtube channel, lots of great vids on there, his introduction to people is a good overview, as well:

expandcontract's Channel - YouTube

Originally Posted by enso

Majestic, I'm not very familiar with Eckhart Tolle, but I think that what he basically teaches is a non-dual teaching, as it would be called from a buddhist perspective. That is a direct path, but there's more to it than just "live in the present moment".

This is basically what I was going to say.

Eckhart Tolle doesn't just say "live in the present moment".
So I don't think it is fair to say that it is simpler than the eight fold path.
He has written numerous books on the subject. Not just 5 words.

Originally Posted by tommo

This is basically what I was going to say.

Eckhart Tolle doesn't just say "live in the present moment".
So I don't think it is fair to say that it is simpler than the eight fold path.
He has written numerous books on the subject. Not just 5 words.

He uses the present moment as a gateway to realization, but he often comes back to the Present Moment as an anchor for this realization.

I think Eckhart T. believes in metaphysical free will which is why I don't like to read him exclusively. There are very many good reminders that he gives in his writings. I personally don't think it's possible to define enlightenment. It's like trying to define happy. There's joy. There's bliss. There's a billion other positive states that are slightly different. Whenever I meditate or have an insight and afterwards I feel great, I don't try to categorize this feeling and say "is this enlightenment? what is this feeling?". I generally just enjoy myself. Usually, when I have the same "problem" as Majestic. I just feel so great about life I feel like doing nothing and just "going with the flow". It's very much the opposite of concentration.

I really like the website egodeath.com. Unlike most mystical teachings which deliberately use vague language, this website endorses "rational mysticism". The language is very precise and clear. I have not read everything on the site yet, but from what I have, it seems to define enlightenment as very much dependent upon philosophical insight of there being no free will.

But my main point is that each experience is different and I don't know if we can define an emotion; especially one as complex as enlightenment. There also seems to be much disagreement upon whether or not it just means being fully immersed in the present (I don't think so. You can become un-immersed. I generally don't think of ELM as something we drift into and out of.) Rather I think it has to do with philosophical understanding of our having no free will and something to do with meditation and entheogens or lucid dreaming (DMT is released when you dream).

If anyone tries to define enlightenment, they're lying.

But I actually really like Eckhart Tolle's worldview, I don't really know what you mean by metaphysical free will though.

While it's never good to get one story, this guy is the real deal, imo.