Thread: The inner sanctum.. a delusion?

Today while driving home I drove through an old road. Beautiful tall trees created a canopy above my car. The spring time sunlight made the fresh new leaves glow the brightest green I've ever seen. A thick wall of vines descending from a tree blossoms with flowers, a two story tall wall of flowers. As I pass by each tree I remind myself that each one is a self aware living being. Then I was surrounded!

It was mystical! (Prove me wrong)

tbh Im not convinced every single mystical occurence is the result of someone going crazy. I believe a number of them are, but not all. Unfortunately the very nature of a mystic experience means that you cant be proved wrong and neither can the claimer if they are in good mental health. Of course, this is just with technology as it is now. Who knows, sometime down the line we may have a device which can measure things we once thought fantasy.

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

Many people in this world have claimed to have a mystical experience of some sort. To me, it is a pyscological delusion to those who can't face reality itself..

Than there are those who believe in what is known, and know that the expeirence they have, whether it be lucid dreaming or drug, be an insight to what is our self, or moreover our superego..

I havn't met someone to peruade me otherwise, but I can hope.

Hmmm?
I understand the first two sentences. the third sentence sounds like a mystical experience. I don't know anyone who has had a genuine mystical experience who is afraid to face reality itself. I think that it is a prerequisite to be able to face reality in order to have a mystical experience.

But I think that a mystical experience IS an insight to our self, or, er, the superego.

But I know what you are saying, and it is probably based on your experience and the people you have met and the people on TV who have claimed to have had mystical experiences. I agree that most of the people you run into at the supermarket or coworkers or at church or at new age psychic fairs who claim to have had mystical experiences ARE probably deluded. But it is hard to judge. The way I judge is if the person can face reality or not. A genuine mystical experience should actually help ground the person in reality.

It is hard to say what a psychological delusion is, because there is nobody who is not deluded at all to compare against. Freud, who is the father of psychoanalysis, never met a completely sane man. And when society is insane, a sane man will be committed to the psych ward. Go home for Thanksgiving Holiday or Christmas Holiday and you'll see that everyone is a little neurotic.

Clinging to rationality and logic is a form of 'explaining' and 'making sense' of the unknown just like clinging to superstitious doctrine and religious dogma. Sure, science can explain some facts, psychoanalysis can judge which state of mind is adjusted to the current society, but neither can touch mystical experiences.

Logical people and rational people all think that love is blind, or that love is Mad. A lover is crazy, he is not predictable. Lovers appear to be deluding themselves. Look at two people in love and try to prove that they are not deluded! If you think that lovers are deluded then that shows that you have never been in love. Or maybe you were but then things changed, you grew apart and you said to yourself "what was I thinking? I must have been deluded!"

The thing is, this world, this Universe, this human experience is too big for this silly debate. If your life fits inside this debate then your life is very narrow. Life itself is a mystical experience.

And that is what I think about people who have never had a genuine mystical experience: they have never lived deeply, they have never felt deeply, they have never loved deeply, they have never hated deeply. They never had a truly satisfying orgasm. And they are afraid to try to face ALL of reality (which is impossible). They are living life at a minimum. They are just mediocre. Nobody has persuaded me otherwise.

But apparently some of them like to lucid dream, which is ironic because how much value can be placed on imagination when at best it is a delusion?

Try getting weed-induced schizophrenia...then wake up and look at the world in a state of fear.

Then when you are your true-self and your happy, they call you crazy, or a child. Society is deluded not us. We ARE enlightened.

We are already in hell, we just don't know it. It's all a state of mind.

And that is what I think about people who have never had a genuine mystical experience: they have never lived deeply, they have never felt deeply, they have never loved deeply, they have never hated deeply. They never had a truly satisfying orgasm. And they are afraid to try to face ALL of reality (which is impossible). They are living life at a minimum. They are just mediocre. Nobody has persuaded me otherwise.

I am one of those people....I'm coming out of it. I am an outcast slowly getting back into society with all this newfound knowledge. I wouln't say I had a "mystical" experience, unless you count messages from a oversoul or higher self.

Cannabis took me on a trip that I definitely needed. I am now happy, true to myself, and enlightened.

Originally Posted by juroara

Today while driving home I drove through an old road. Beautiful tall trees created a canopy above my car. The spring time sunlight made the fresh new leaves glow the brightest green I've ever seen. A thick wall of vines descending from a tree blossoms with flowers, a two story tall wall of flowers. As I pass by each tree I remind myself that each one is a self aware living being. Then I was surrounded!

It was mystical! (Prove me wrong)

You're the one making the positive claim ("trees are self-aware") therefore you are the one who needs to provide proof.

Photolysis said:

You're the one making the positive claim ("trees are self-aware") therefore you are the one who needs to provide proof.

Oh boy, here we go again.

First off, Juroara doesn't need to provide you proof. Her/his life is her/his own proof. The way Juroara takes is good and healthy for her/his life, it brings peace, love and hope independent of belief.

If one thinks that a life based on beliefs not firmly grasped by a group of others is not right, one should first question his/her own reasons for believing in one's own reality.

If one's still only satisfied with living the way he/she thinks, or "knows" it's right, then there shouldn't be an argue of any sort related to this point. Society is not supposed to be the owner of your beliefs if the same society supports the human being's individualism.

Whether it's something mystical or not, it doesn't matter, because you won't find out with just that. It's too little.

You can ask for proof all you want, and so you can get plenty from both sides. If you go and look for it yourself, you'll just find what you want to be your truth.

I don't think there is such a thing as insanity or false perceptions. Rather that some experiences and perceptions we have we cannot handle or explain so we call them "insanity" or "Divine".

I know, as fact, that I used to have MANY precognitive dreams. But some of my other experiences... ??? ... who knows. My adult, rational mind refuses to accept what I once knew as fact.

It's hard convincing someone of such things if they themselves lack the ability to experience them.
I no longer have that ability myself lol but I have the past.

You can use psychological terminology, or you can use mystical terminology. Either way it's just a rationalization of an experience. A way of representing experience in the mind and relating it to what others have experienced. The map is not the territory, no matter what you want to call it, it is quite profound.

If you really want to understand what a mystical experience is, take some lsd or mushrooms with intention of having a mystical experience in mind. I would recommend having someone with some experience present and doing it either in a secluded natural area away from people or in your home(probably the best place for a first time).

The only way you can understand what such an experience "is" is having one. Being outside of this culture(my thinking is that you would consider yourself a part of western, scientific culture and that these things are part of what might be called a gnostic or mystic culture) does not give you some kind of objective viewpoint, in fact it gives you almost no viewpoint into anything but the aftereffects.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

You're the one making the positive claim ("trees are self-aware") therefore you are the one who needs to provide proof.

Actually, she never made the claim that trees are self aware. She reminded herself that trees are self aware. She made the claim that she was surrounded by trees and it was mystical. Are you asking her to prove to you that she was surrounded by trees? It would be impossible to prove it, since it happened in the past.

This may or may not be off-topic;
Do you believe in alternate dimensions??

Also;
I believe I have an imaginative world.
But, I also build this world to my liking as I wish....
Metaphorically, but for real too.