Thread: Pennyroyal's workbook

Originally Posted by Xanous

Speaking of gamers and such... I wonder if anime helps with dream control. Just a thought.

Hmm, I'm not sure.. I know anime has definitely inspired some interesting dreams for me though.

Originally Posted by Xanous

Speaking of gamers and such... I wonder if anime helps with dream control. Just a thought.

I heard the same about playing video games. I don't really play video games or watch anime much, but it seems to me like it would contribute to dream control.

April Goal Update:

Lucids: 8/6
Recall: 31/45
Control: Stabilize by spinning, Head outside and fly

I'm up 2 on my Lucids goal, and about right on track for my recall. April hasn't been too shabby.

Still using SSILD with success I'm finding that I have to extend my WBTBs as i become more comfortable with the technique because I'm falling asleep part way through the first cycle a lot of the time.

I'm really considering adopting WILD as my tech in May, although I'm a little nervous about having a tough time with it. I've tried on a few afternoon naps with no luck but not during a WBTB at night yet. Plus, I've had such good results with SSILD I'm not sure if I want to switch it up yet.

It seems that anime would give visuals but I dont know though I don't watch anime that often.

Anyway, thats awesome you're killing your goals man. Way to go! I think I'd be inclined to stick with what's working for but it's also nice to experience different techniques. WILD is really an experience all on its own they everyone needs have at least once.

Originally Posted by Xanous

It seems that anime would give visuals but I dont know though I don't watch anime that often.

Anyway, thats awesome you're killing your goals man. Way to go! I think I'd be inclined to stick with what's working for but it's also nice to experience different techniques. WILD is really an experience all on its own they everyone needs have at least once.

I don't really watch it too often either. I have some anime related dream goals, when I get to those I'll probably make it a habit to watch some everynight before bed. If I notice anything interesting I'll be sure to report.

WILD is definitely something I intend to pursue eventually, I just don't want to get ahead of myself. Originally it was the technique I wanted to start with, but after much reading it seems that many a newbie-dreamer gets discouraged and gives up. The idea of entering a dream "on demand" so-to-speak is just too enticing to ignore :p

I've read a ton of WILD related threads and tutorials, but is there anything in particular that helped you personally when you were starting off with WILD?

Originally Posted by PennyRoyal

I've read a ton of WILD related threads and tutorials, but is there anything in particular that helped you personally when you were starting off with WILD?

That's a tough one to answer. I think each person has to find their own style and way to WILD. Sageous' class really gave me a great foundation to build on but I had to tweak it to own needs. Later I found LaBerge's Twin Body Technique really helpful but again I had to put my own spin on it. Really it's all about walking that fine line between body asleep mind awake. How you get there depends on you. My biggest obstacle is falling asleep unaware. Either I have to be very well rested and attempt only late morning or afternoon naps or get a little help from aids. Even then my success rate isn't were I would like. I really just have to wait for the right conditions to be successful. That probably isn't' much help but that's all I got. IMO, WILD is really a tough thing to explain and has to be learned through trial and error.

Last few days have gone really poorly for me, no recall to mention. I tried to adjust my sleep schedule so that when my girlfriend's alarm goes off its about 5 hrs of sleep and use that for WBTB, but I just cant get back to bed when the light is coming through the window. It was a decent idea but hasnt worked out.

I tried A WILD attempt yesterday about 4 hrs after I woke up, couldn't fall asleep. I tried one this morning 2 hours after waking up and had some brief hallucinations. At one point I was staring at a blue city dumpster and I thought about how I should be doing my anchoring technique then realized that I was looking at something with my eyes closed which jolted me awake. Another time I noticed that I was whittling something, my knife got caught on whatever I was carving and my waking body arm twitched, bringing me back to full conciousness.

Ill have to return my sleeping pattern to normal tonight, but I think I'm going to try to do a WILD attempt in the mornings while Im out of work.

Awesome job in April, man! I'm jealous of your LD count. It's great how well SSILD is delivering for you right now. There's nothing wrong with taking another month of SSILD if you're so inclined and just enjoy refining and getting even better with the technique. Honestly, there's nothing more helpful with getting better at lucid dreaming than just having lots of LDs. SSILD seems to be a good way for you to do that.

Having said that, I have to admit that WILD is pretty awesome.

Originally Posted by PennyRoyal

WILD is definitely something I intend to pursue eventually, I just don't want to get ahead of myself. Originally it was the technique I wanted to start with, but after much reading it seems that many a newbie-dreamer gets discouraged and gives up. The idea of entering a dream "on demand" so-to-speak is just too enticing to ignore :p

I've read a ton of WILD related threads and tutorials, but is there anything in particular that helped you personally when you were starting off with WILD?

Xanous has offered lots of good advice, and in particular I would re-emphasize studying Sageous' materials. I found that the mindset he asks you to cultivate was a huge help for making the transition into WILD as smooth as possible.

An additional piece of advice is that I found DEILD to be a great stepping stone to WILD. DEILD really is a type of WILD, but it just involves a much shorter hop back to the dream. This makes DEILD a great place to practice the same skills that you'll need for WILDing.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Awesome job in April, man! I'm jealous of your LD count. It's great how well SSILD is delivering for you right now. There's nothing wrong with taking another month of SSILD if you're so inclined and just enjoy refining and getting even better with the technique. Honestly, there's nothing more helpful with getting better at lucid dreaming than just having lots of LDs. SSILD seems to be a good way for you to do that.

Having said that, I have to admit that WILD is pretty awesome.

After that DEILD this morning I'll have to agree, I wish I could do it regularly. I think I'm going to try and do another month with SSILD to hopefully get some more LDs under my belt before I really try for WILDs.

Ok, it's Wednesday night I have the rest of the week with change to make up for my recall goal which has fallen behind. I've actually been really lazy with my practices this week, I just cracked open my DJ and havn't even made an effort to write my nightly goals since the 20th, tsk tsk tsk.

I browsed my DJ and noticed a pattern that I seem to be whining a lot about forgetting to stabilize my lucids, my problem has gone from BECOMING lucid to REMAINING lucid.

Main goal:

Stabilize my next Lucid Dream, once stabilized go outside for a change and fly.

Trying to set myself up nicely tonight. Going to go to bed a bit early and drink 2 cups of AJ with 100mg B6. Ate some additional foods containing B vitamins and trypt. Just got done doing an entry in my waking life journal and I'm going to write out my goals in my poor neglected DJ after I post this to set my intention.

For future quick reference below --

Prebed:

(Mantra) I wake up after every dream and remember. (Visualize writing dreams in my DJ)

Awakenings: Brief WBTB each time followed with SSILD cycles.

Didn't get the results I was hoping for. 1 Dream, 1 Fragment.

Again I experienced pretty bad insomnia on my awakning at 2:30am as usual with B6. I honestly don't think it's excitement, I rolled over and opened my eyes and felt like I had been awake for hours. Thankfully I fell asleep in fairly short order.

I woke twice in the night and did SSILD cycles. 2:30 and 4:30ish. I'm really having a bad time with my recall, struggling hard to remember so little. I think I'm going to have to put a bit more focus on it for the next few days.

Originally Posted by PennyRoyal

I browsed my DJ and noticed a pattern that I seem to be whining a lot about forgetting to stabilize my lucids, my problem has gone from BECOMING lucid to REMAINING lucid.

Main goal:

Stabilize my next Lucid Dream, once stabilized go outside for a change and fly.

Sounds good! Do you have a specific idea in mind for how you'll stabilize? One thing that I find helps is to not think of it just in terms of stabilization. What you're really looking to do is find ways to get really hooked into the dream scene and your dream body. Trying to get an extraordinary level of detail out of dream scenery, your hands, the way things feel, etc. is a pretty amazing experience all in itself and seems to automatically make the dream more stable.

Basically, with stabilization, you're trying to think only of the dream world and lose as much connection as possible to your waking body. What you may want to do is come up with something really specific, whether it be rubbing your hands together, studying your hands close up in great detail, licking the floor, etc.

Originally Posted by PennyRoyal

Again I experienced pretty bad insomnia on my awakning at 2:30am as usual with B6. I honestly don't think it's excitement, I rolled over and opened my eyes and felt like I had been awake for hours. Thankfully I fell asleep in fairly short order.

Interesting, this isn't something that I experienced. When you say that roll over and quickly fall asleep, how long does this insomnia last for? Because if you are still getting back to sleep at will, a feeling of wakefulness at WBTB isn't by itself too problematic. If you're actually losing a good chunk of sleep, though, that isn't so good.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Sounds good! Do you have a specific idea in mind for how you'll stabilize? One thing that I find helps is to not think of it just in terms of stabilization. What you're really looking to do is find ways to get really hooked into the dream scene and your dream body. Trying to get an extraordinary level of detail out of dream scenery, your hands, the way things feel, etc. is a pretty amazing experience all in itself and seems to automatically make the dream more stable.

Basically, with stabilization, you're trying to think only of the dream world and lose as much connection as possible to your waking body. What you may want to do is come up with something really specific, whether it be rubbing your hands together, studying your hands close up in great detail, licking the floor, etc.

Whoops, I wasn't being very specific. My stabilization technique is usually rubbing my hands together and poking/feeling at my body. I had really good results when I was feeling up the dream scene one night, but I havn't been able to remember to do that since. I'll have to make an effort to use that method, I forgot how well it worked for me.

Interesting, this isn't something that I experienced. When you say that roll over and quickly fall asleep, how long does this insomnia last for? Because if you are still getting back to sleep at will, a feeling of wakefulness at WBTB isn't by itself too problematic. If you're actually losing a good chunk of sleep, though, that isn't so good.

Well, it was quickly this time compared to my other experiences. I'd say it took me maybe 25-30 minutes to fall asleep, which is a long time for me (~5-10minutes after awakenings is typical). I havn't had a night taking B6 in a while because the last few times it took me upwards of an hour or more to crash out.

I have a friend who had a fleeting interest in LDing last year, he said that he never had my problem with B6 but mentioned getting fairly bad insomnia from taking Galantamine/Choline. He offered the rest of it to me, but he turned me off to the idea with the whole insomnia bit. Shame, now I wouldn't mind taking a crack at it and he's moved away lol.

WILD attempt #2:

Woke up 6am, after 7 hrs of sleep. Stayed up two hours and laid down for WILD (8am).

Notes:

-I notice that I tend to twist my mantra when I'm on the brink of sleep. (Stabilize turned to "Stay Alive" for a bit before i realized hahah). I also notice that I tend to get some muscle twitches

-Twice I got glimpses of either some impressive images or the beginnings of a dream. Once I was looking up at a tall building and blue sky, another a brief glimpse of a cell phone

-I must have lost awareness a few times here and there. I figured I gave myself 30 minutes to lay down and try to fall asleep but it turned out to be a little over an hour.

Originally Posted by PennyRoyal

Whoops, I wasn't being very specific. My stabilization technique is usually rubbing my hands together and poking/feeling at my body. I had really good results when I was feeling up the dream scene one night, but I havn't been able to remember to do that since. I'll have to make an effort to use that method, I forgot how well it worked for me.

Perfect! Try it all. The "get really into the dream scene" and "make out with the dream" style of stabilization is just hilarious and fun anyway. Man, the crazy detail that your mind can generate when you look at stuff up close. Mind-blowing.

Originally Posted by PennyRoyal

Well, it was quickly this time compared to my other experiences. I'd say it took me maybe 25-30 minutes to fall asleep, which is a long time for me (~5-10minutes after awakenings is typical). I havn't had a night taking B6 in a while because the last few times it took me upwards of an hour or more to crash out.

Man, interesting! Maybe it just doesn't agree with you then. Do you also get the benefits of more vivid dreams usually or is it just not the supp for you?

Originally Posted by PennyRoyal

I have a friend who had a fleeting interest in LDing last year, he said that he never had my problem with B6 but mentioned getting fairly bad insomnia from taking Galantamine/Choline. He offered the rest of it to me, but he turned me off to the idea with the whole insomnia bit. Shame, now I wouldn't mind taking a crack at it and he's moved away lol.

Oh man!! Your buddy was going to give you free G? You know, the rest of us have to pay for that!

The level of insomnia w/ galantamine varies greatly by dosage, how much supporting choline you use, and your excitement level. I've found that a little L-theanine helps smooth things out. Galantamine is only good to take at WBTB and is generally used to induce WILDs. However, if the insomnia is really bad, an option is to take the G, then go straight to sleep and look for a DILD.

If you do wind up having any questions or interest in galantamine, Xanous or I can both help you. It's a supplement that is much more effective if you learn the best way to employ it and there are some possible mistakes with it you'd really want to avoid. (I take galantamine once per week or so.)

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Man, interesting! Maybe it just doesn't agree with you then. Do you also get the benefits of more vivid dreams usually or is it just not the supp for you?

Actually.. The night I remembered to "feel up the dream" was a B6 night, and it was the most vivid and realistic lucid I've had so far. I'm going to have to go back and check my DJ for the other times.

Oh man!! Your buddy was going to give you free G? You know, the rest of us have to pay for that!

Lol, I didn't really even know what he was offering me at the time.

The level of insomnia w/ galantamine varies greatly by dosage, how much supporting choline you use, and your excitement level. I've found that a little L-theanine helps smooth things out. Galantamine is only good to take at WBTB and is generally used to induce WILDs. However, if the insomnia is really bad, an option is to take the G, then go straight to sleep and look for a DILD.

If you do wind up having any questions or interest in galantamine, Xanous or I can both help you. It's a supplement that is much more effective if you learn the best way to employ it and there are some possible mistakes with it you'd really want to avoid. (I take galantamine once per week or so.)

I'll end up picking your brains for info on G eventually. I havnt even looked into where to get it, i'm assuming I'll have to place an order online somewhere.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but so far my understanding is, G temporarily increases the concentration of acetylcholine in the brain, which brings you into REM a bit quicker? Which would make sense why it's a Supp used for WILD.

I havnt done a lot of research on the topic yet.

Originally Posted by PennyRoyal

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but so far my understanding is, G temporarily increases the concentration of acetylcholine in the brain, which brings you into REM a bit quicker? Which would make sense why it's a Supp used for WILD.

I havnt done a lot of research on the topic yet.

Right, acetylcholine (ACh) is produced in the brain from choline and gradually removed by an enzyme called acetylcholinesterase (AChE). Galantamine inhibits the actions of AChE, allowing levels of ACh to rise in the brain. In addition, galantamine does some other nice things like making nicotinic ACh receptors more responsive (it's an "allosteric modulator" for these receptors.)

And yeah, high levels of acetylcholine are associated with REM sleep, plus an increase in memory and awareness. So it has some additional benefits for DILDs as well. And like you said, by bringing on REM more readily, it makes WILDs a much shorter hop than usual.

Seems as though I burned off whatever fuel I was using at the beginning of the month. Either way, it's been a fantastic month for me so I won't allow myself to complain.

I decided since I enjoyed the competition so much and I don't really want to wait for another thatI'd make my own. But then it occurred to me that I hate being responsible for keeping track of things like that, which spawned another fun idea . I could just use the point system from the competition as a way to track my progress and create personal bests that I can try to beat from week to week and month to month. Going to give myself the rest of April to relax and begin on this upcoming Wednesday the 1st of March.

Points

Recall:
Remember a fragment (.5 pts)
Remember a dream (1 pts)

Lucid:
Become Lucid (5 Pts)
DEILD/WILD (3 Pts)
WBTB (1 Pt, 2 if followed by a Lucid)
Interact with DC (2 pts)

Control:

Fly/Summon/Transform/etc.. (4 pts)

I'll figure out some kind of reward befitting a young oneironaut if I beat a PB.

Excited already.

Great idea! Love it!

Originally Posted by PennyRoyal

Seems as though I burned off whatever fuel I was using at the beginning of the month. Either way, it's been a fantastic month for me so I won't allow myself to complain.

You really have had an amazing month! I'm super impressed by how well things have gone for you and how much you accomplished. It was a lot of fun to see that and it helped keep me inspired and in the groove when mid-April was kind of dry for me.

Originally Posted by PennyRoyal

I decided since I enjoyed the competition so much and I don't really want to wait for another thatI'd make my own. But then it occurred to me that I hate being responsible for keeping track of things like that, which spawned another fun idea . I could just use the point system from the competition as a way to track my progress and create personal bests that I can try to beat from week to week and month to month. Going to give myself the rest of April to relax and begin on this upcoming Wednesday the 1st of March.

Such a great idea, especially given how much you thrive off of competition! Now if only you could figure out how to compete against yourself in Starcraft, the 13-year-old South Korean that you faced last time won't stand a chance.

Good luck on kicking the ass of your own April performance in May!

I havn't had any recall for a few days. I'm know it will be back but.. bummer. Aw well, what are ya gonna do?

April was a great month for me I ended up having 10 Lucids, I had a goal of 6. Proud of myself for that, I wish I could have kept that momentum all month long.

My recall goal came up short, 36/45 dreams recalled. It wasn't terribly off but I was hoping to reach it. I had success in other areas to make up for it.

May Goals:

Recall/Lucids:

7 Lucids, 40 Dreams. Going to continue with SSILD, but extend my WBTB to 30 minutes and see if that has any effect.

Control: I havn't had an opportunity to try to spinning technique for travel/stabilization. I want to at least try it once.

Spin to Stabilize and/or change the Dream scene, Go outside, Fly

April 2nd Score:

2 Dreams, 2 Fragment, Became Lucid, WBTB Success = 11 Pts.

I think I may have been close to an unintentional WILD last night, I was doing SSILD cycles and for a moment then I was looking at a cell phone in my hand. There was a 3 word text message displayed and I tried to memorize it. It lasted only a few seconds before I was looking at the back of my eyelids again.

I almost came close to a DEILD twice this morning. I seem to get the same imagery when I'm coming up on a DILD, I can see what looks like the white/black/grey "snow" that you used to see when your TV was set to a channel you didn't have.

Awesome, man, what a great month. You should be proud after getting lucid that frequently. I'm duly impressed!

I'll be interested to see how the 30-minute WBTB goes for you. The trouble is, with 10 lucids in April, you've set the bar so darn high that it's going to be harder to improve. Also curious how spinning to change dream scene works for you. It's something that for whatever reason I shied away from early in my practice but I'm now interested in trying again now that I'm a little more seasoned.

Here's to an excellent, lucid May!

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Awesome, man, what a great month. You should be proud after getting lucid that frequently. I'm duly impressed!

Thanks CL, I appreciate it.

I'll be interested to see how the 30-minute WBTB goes for you. The trouble is, with 10 lucids in April, you've set the bar so darn high that it's going to be harder to improve. Also curious how spinning to change dream scene works for you. It's something that for whatever reason I shied away from early in my practice but I'm now interested in trying again now that I'm a little more seasoned.

I have to go to bed a bit earlier to get the 30 minutes in, but it's not really a big deal. I woke up a little later than usual last night so I only stayed up for 15 minutes - a little longer than usual. Got a brief moment of lucidity during an FA.

Here's to an excellent, lucid May!

You too man! I'm counting on reading some awesome lucids from you for inspiration Looks like you are getting close to that big 1 0 0