Thread: Sibyline's workbook

Hi Sibyline,

I'm liking the DILDs that are happening now. I haven't had too many of those in my life (WILD was always my thing), but there is something very cool about becoming lucid within a nonLD. This one did a strange reboot, like a FA but different. Please read and let me know what you think.

I have been there (becoming lucid in non-lucid dream) and yes, the feeling is unmistakable! What a rush! After the first one, you want to do it again and again, and you want more and more !

I like dream experiments, and lurking on Xanous' DJ, I found a card experiment and decided to give it a try. I have picked a random and unseen card from my DD's deck of Beatles cards. This gives the experiment an extra aspect: I gave her that deck of cards the Christmas before last, and obviously looked at them then, but they have been hidden away from her destructive little sister for at least a year now, and I don't remember what the cards look like. So it will be interesting to see what I find when I go looking for the card in a LD. I have only seen the Beatles logo on the back, but I don't remember what kind of design the face side of the card has. Group pictures, single members, b/w or colour? Regular card suit symbols or something different? No idea. The card is hidden upside-down underneath a rarely-used salad set in a kitchen drawer.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Yeah, I could see false awakenings being downright disturbing if they're not something you'd prepared yourself for. My first LD was actually a false awakening but I didn't really put it together until later. By the time I had my next one, I'd read enough LD material to be ready for something like that to come. I still wasn't prepared for how realistic it would be.

I had absolutely no idea what was going on. This was long before the internet, and I had never heard of lucid dreaming. I'm still not entirely sure if what I experienced were false awakenings or SP with hallucinations, but I would be aware of my surroundings but unable to wake up for a long time. I was really terrified. But searching for that phenomenon once it was possible on the internet was what led me to learn about all the terminology and science regarding lucid dreaming, so that took away the fear. Later - once it became more popular as a "hobby" of sorts - I realized that I had only explored a fraction of the opportunities available.

Did you LD before or after hearing about it?

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

How does your dad react to the fact that lucid dreaming has been proven in a laboratory setting via prearranged eye movements (by LaBerge and others)? This, it seems, is the piece of evidence that makes the existence of lucid dreaming an undeniable fact. I've gotten the occasional mildly negative reaction to mention of LD, but those LaBerge experiments seem to quiet down any true "doubters".

I think he might have gotten into it when he was younger, if I had known what it was and we could have explored it together. He was very open-minded back then. But he is in his late sixties now and set in his ways. I'm as amused by his stubbornness as he is by mine.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Inception takes a lot of artistic license with what LD is, but they got a lot of the big, important stuff right. Most importantly to me, it has been an awesome vehicle for mainstreaming the idea of conscious dreaming. I find that it's so helpful being able to reference a great movie that pretty much everyone has seen. I love that this movie is out there.

Me too! I was so happy when I heard that a mainstream movie was going to tackle this subject. I don't care about the inaccuracies, because all movies take artistic liberties, but just the fact that the movie is out there and the word is out that it is based on something real - that is a wonderful thing. Eventually some kid who saw this is going to grow up and invent the device, technique or drug that makes lucid dreaming easily available to everyone. Just imagine the possibilities once that happens!

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

What's funny about Inception is that some of the pieces that seemed very fanciful to me when I saw it (such as the idea of a dream within a dream) are now things I've actually experienced.

Have you experienced actual nested dreams, i.e. not just waking up from one dream into another (FA), but going to sleep in one dream, waking up in another, and then going back afterwards? Because that would be awesome!

What do you think of the idea of time dilation in the way it's discussed either here on DV or in Inception (where it is a law of dreaming, which we know is not true outside of the movie)? I have never experienced it, and I tend to think it comes down to "skipping the boring parts", but there are people on here who swear they have experienced the real thing. It would be an amazing thing to try.

BTW, I had some unusual circumstances surrounding a DILD last night. I think it will be of interest to you inquisitive mind . I will post it as soon as I'm done typing it up.

Originally Posted by Sibyline

I had absolutely no idea what was going on. This was long before the internet, and I had never heard of lucid dreaming. I'm still not entirely sure if what I experienced were false awakenings or SP with hallucinations, but I would be aware of my surroundings but unable to wake up for a long time. I was really terrified. But searching for that phenomenon once it was possible on the internet was what led me to learn about all the terminology and science regarding lucid dreaming, so that took away the fear. Later - once it became more popular as a "hobby" of sorts - I realized that I had only explored a fraction of the opportunities available.

Did you LD before or after hearing about it?

I can only imagine what I would have thought if I'd had these experiences before reading up on it or at least hearing of the concept. I barely recalled any dreams before having my first lucid, and it was in response to hearing a podcast where they talked about LD. The idea was really exciting to me and I kept thinking about it. Then one night, I had a dream (probably a false awakening) where I was going downstairs and was suddenly filled with fear that I was going to set off our house alarm. When I looked around, stuff was out of place, it all hit me, and I was hooked forever.

Originally Posted by Sibyline

Me too! I was so happy when I heard that a mainstream movie was going to tackle this subject. I don't care about the inaccuracies, because all movies take artistic liberties, but just the fact that the movie is out there and the word is out that it is based on something real - that is a wonderful thing. Eventually some kid who saw this is going to grow up and invent the device, technique or drug that makes lucid dreaming easily available to everyone. Just imagine the possibilities once that happens!

No kidding! What mattered most to me is what they got right and all of the ways that they brought dream vividness, lucidity, and control into the public consciousness. And to just generally break the ice in terms of talking about dreams, something people are at times oddly reluctant to do.

And the idea of someone cracking the neurochemical puzzle that makes lucid dreaming (more or less) universally available... it's an incredible possibility to think about! No doubt it'll come with downsides -- controversy, resistance, risk of psychological addiction, etc. But what an amazing thing

Originally Posted by Sibyline

Have you experienced actual nested dreams, i.e. not just waking up from one dream into another (FA), but going to sleep in one dream, waking up in another, and then going back afterwards? Because that would be awesome!

Yes! It was amazing. I already think that standard false awakenings are pretty incredible, but this was crazy.

Basically, this was an NLD in my house where I started thinking about lucid dreaming, so I laid down to WILD. Instantly went into a new dream, fully lucid, and did a bunch of stuff. Eventually I woke up back into the original scene again with lucidity lost. Here's the DJ entry for it: http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/cani.../fooled-44125/

Originally Posted by Sibyline

What do you think of the idea of time dilation in the way it's discussed either here on DV or in Inception (where it is a law of dreaming, which we know is not true outside of the movie)? I have never experienced it, and I tend to think it comes down to "skipping the boring parts", but there are people on here who swear they have experienced the real thing. It would be an amazing thing to try.

BTW, I had some unusual circumstances surrounding a DILD last night. I think it will be of interest to you inquisitive mind . I will post it as soon as I'm done typing it up.

I'm keeping my mind open on time dilation. Once we're moving to the world inside of the skull, there's so much that's possible. Perception of time strikes me as something that could become quite skewed in the right situations.

My guess is that this effect is achieved by a combination of, as you say, skipping the boring parts and the mind creating false memories on the fly. It's difficult to prove that, say, the previous month of my life isn't based on the same effect. All we have to rely on is our memory of the experience, and I've found the dreaming brain to be very adept at filling in the gaps.

But in addition, who's to say that it also doesn't sometimes kick into a higher gear and generate dream content in far greater than real-time? It's an amazing question to contemplate.

Congratulations! Looking forward to checking out this DILD!

And here it is: DILD right after going to sleep - the Viking Wagon constellation - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

TL;DR: I listened to one of Ninja9578's subliminal audio files before going to sleep. Went straight into REM (probably due to messed-up sleep schedule) and became lucid almost immediately. Fumbled a bit with various things, failed TOTM attempt. Learned (alas, too late) that I can see in the dark and shouldn't worry about lightswitches.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

No kidding! What mattered most to me is what they got right and all of the ways that they brought dream vividness, lucidity, and control into the public consciousness. And to just generally break the ice in terms of talking about dreams, something people are at times oddly reluctant to do.

True. I remember as a child my friends and I were always telling each other our dreams, to see if we had shared dreams, but it's just not polite conversation among grownups, is it?

I loved the architecture in Inception, because a lot of my nonLDs are like that. And I thought the way they illustrated dream instability was very clever. Also the slow realization of being in a dream, first by Ariadne, then Fisher. Even though they were told by Dom that they were dreaming, it took them a while to really believe it.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

Basically, this was an NLD in my house where I started thinking about lucid dreaming, so I laid down to WILD. Instantly went into a new dream, fully lucid, and did a bunch of stuff. Eventually I woke up back into the original scene again with lucidity lost. Here's the DJ entry for it: Fooled - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

That is amazing! I really want to try that. But I was running around like a headless chicken last night, wanting to do one thing, then another. I'd better file these ideas for later and concentrate on more basic stuff. BTW, I got a bit of a laugh out of you picking popcorn hulls out of your teeth with a box cutter. Very Chuck Norris.

Originally Posted by CanisLucidus

I'm keeping my mind open on time dilation. Once we're moving to the world inside of the skull, there's so much that's possible. Perception of time strikes me as something that could become quite skewed in the right situations.

My guess is that this effect is achieved by a combination of, as you say, skipping the boring parts and the mind creating false memories on the fly. It's difficult to prove that, say, the previous month of my life isn't based on the same effect. All we have to rely on is our memory of the experience, and I've found the dreaming brain to be very adept at filling in the gaps.

But in addition, who's to say that it also doesn't sometimes kick into a higher gear and generate dream content in far greater than real-time? It's an amazing question to contemplate.

Yes, I thought about the false memories too. I have noticed that in nonLDs I sometimes invent previous dreams, but when I wake up, I can feel that the memory wasn't real. But like you, I'm keeping my mind open to the possibility of time dilation, OBEs and such thing. Because why not? Placing limitations on possibilities is probably the worst thing you can do as a lucid dreamer.

Originally Posted by Sibyline

True. I remember as a child my friends and I were always telling each other our dreams, to see if we had shared dreams, but it's just not polite conversation among grownups, is it?

I loved the architecture in Inception, because a lot of my nonLDs are like that. And I thought the way they illustrated dream instability was very clever. Also the slow realization of being in a dream, first by Ariadne, then Fisher. Even though they were told by Dom that they were dreaming, it took them a while to really believe it.

Yes! I particularly loved that Cobb's instruction to Fisher was to "try to remember how you got here." Perfect. Still the one reality check that's never let me down!

Originally Posted by Sibyline

That is amazing! I really want to try that. But I was running around like a headless chicken last night, wanting to do one thing, then another. I'd better file these ideas for later and concentrate on more basic stuff. BTW, I got a bit of a laugh out of you picking popcorn hulls out of your teeth with a box cutter. Very Chuck Norris.

In-dream WILD is pretty sweet! I've done a couple of these, but only one created that Inception-like structure. I've not had the guts to try it during a lucid, but part of me thinks that it'll make a good tech for teleport.

And LOL, thanks on the box cutter. Does this help add back just a fraction of the machismo that I lost when I confessed to drinking peppermint tea through a straw?

Originally Posted by Sibyline

Yes, I thought about the false memories too. I have noticed that in nonLDs I sometimes invent previous dreams, but when I wake up, I can feel that the memory wasn't real. But like you, I'm keeping my mind open to the possibility of time dilation, OBEs and such thing. Because why not? Placing limitations on possibilities is probably the worst thing you can do as a lucid dreamer.

Exactly. I definitely have my beliefs on such subjects, but why let them constrain the range of possible experiences I can have with LD?

So frustrated! I woke up at 2:30 this morning and couldn't sleep for a couple of hours. When I was finally tired enough to sleep, I almost immediately went into WILD transition, but it was cut short because my throat closed up. So annoying! Finally I turned on my back (not a good position for me), but then I was so tired that I just fell asleep.

Originally Posted by Sibyline

So frustrated! I woke up at 2:30 this morning and couldn't sleep for a couple of hours. When I was finally tired enough to sleep, I almost immediately went into WILD transition, but it was cut short because my throat closed up. So annoying! Finally I turned on my back (not a good position for me), but then I was so tired that I just fell asleep.

Agh, sorry about that! Hey, that's weird how your throat closed up. Do you have any idea what this was in reaction to? Did your tongue sort of... fall into a weird position? Swallow a bit funny?

What position were you sleeping in when it did that?

Anyway, I feel your pain! I had full insomnia after WBTB last night and stayed awake until my alarm was going off. We'll have better luck tonight!

I have no idea. It happens sometimes. It feels as if my throat collapses when the muscles relax. I was lying on my side, which is completely normal for me.

Still nothing here. I think midsummer is getting to me. It never gets really dark at night this time of year. I'll be going on vacation in a week's time, much further south in Europe, so that should take care of that particular problem.

Did you have any luck?

Hmm, if you were already lying on your side I don't have any sleeping position suggestions to add. That's kind of my go-to when I need to fall asleep as fast as possible.

It sounds tough having all of that extra daylight. You may want to think about a sleep mask! I've been using mine for the past few days and it really, really keeps the light out. The downside has been that it seems to have caused my WBTB to shift a bit later than normal, so I may just try wearing it post-WBTB.

But yeah, if you're dealing with a bunch of light you may want to give it a try! I've got the kind where I can open my eyes underneath. And when I do, it's black as a cave in there.

I didn't even finish a single SSILD cycle last night before falling asleep. Guess I was tired!

My 4-year-old stole my sleep mask, and she can't won't tell me where it is.

It hasn't been an issue for the past few days, so it was just really bad timing that it came in the middle of a WILD attempt.

I only rarely manage to finish SSILD properly without any distraction or even falling asleep.

Thanks for all your help and support!

Originally Posted by Sibyline

My 4-year-old stole my sleep mask, and she can't won't tell me where it is.
...
I only rarely manage to finish SSILD properly without any distraction or even falling asleep.

LOL. What a familiar story that is around our house with so many of our possessions! Thank goodness my kids don't know that I wear a sleep mask or they'd be stumbling around the house with it strapped to their faces.

I've been wondering whether I need to sit up a bit while I do my SSILD. The hardest part for me is being self-aware enough to know whether I'm likely to fall asleep quickly or if I might be flirting with insomnia and then how I should perform my cycles.

And thank you for your help and support as well! I know we'll be hitting some lucids soon!

Made some progress on my "hidden card" dream goal during a DILD this morning.

I'm still having big issues with stabilization. I wish I could keep my LDs going for longer. I noticed that my dream became stable and vivid once I began to examine an object up close, so I think I will use that to my advantage. I also got too excited again, and the dream ended because of this. I have to work on reminding myself to stay calm when I get close to my goals.

Oh, and my DD has graciously given back my sleep mask in return for a diving mask she couldn't reach.

Originally Posted by Sibyline

Made some progress on my "hidden card" dream goal during a DILD this morning.

I'm still having big issues with stabilization. I wish I could keep my LDs going for longer. I noticed that my dream became stable and vivid once I began to examine an object up close, so I think I will use that to my advantage. I also got too excited again, and the dream ended because of this. I have to work on reminding myself to stay calm when I get close to my goals.

Oh, and my DD has graciously given back my sleep mask in return for a diving mask she couldn't reach.

Congratulations on the lucid, sibyline! I'll be sure to check that out later.

I think that your stabilization approach is right on. Bringing in as much dream detail as possible helps really shift your consciousness into the dream world. The more attention you pay to the dream, the less you'll pay to your sleeping body or the environment it inhabits. Plus, studying the level of detail possible in a dream is an amazing thing all by itself.

And I'm glad you got your mask back.

Thanks! I hit the mead tonight, which is unusual for me, so I wonder what that will do to my sleep.

I'm somewhat offline at the moment due to being abroad with very inconvenient sleeping arrangements. I will be lurking and so forth, but I'm not expecting anything big for the next couple of weeks. Just wanted to let you know why I have dropped off the radar.

Originally Posted by Sibyline

I'm somewhat offline at the moment due to being abroad with very inconvenient sleeping arrangements. I will be lurking and so forth, but I'm not expecting anything big for the next couple of weeks. Just wanted to let you know why I have dropped off the radar.

Enjoy your trip! You never know when those lucids will strike, so you can tell us all about them when you get back.

Safe travels!

Originally Posted by Sibyline

I'm somewhat offline at the moment due to being abroad with very inconvenient sleeping arrangements. I will be lurking and so forth, but I'm not expecting anything big for the next couple of weeks. Just wanted to let you know why I have dropped off the radar.

Get some rest and enjoy yourself! If anything happens, I will call you! Sibyliiiine!!!

Thank you both! I will definitely be storing some fantastic imagery for later dream use.

Feel free to call me anytime... missbehaven!

Yay! I'm back from vacation and I had a huge epic LD this morning! I had been a good girl while I was away, and worked diligently on improving my dream recall by learning to lie still when I awake (was difficult to master, but it really works!) and I really went for it this morning when I was back in my own bed, but I had never expected this. A long dream in multiple settings and with great control! I managed to:

• consciously let (part of) a dream play out without asserting control over what happened - something I had been planning to do for a while
• deal with fear by remaining conscious of my lucid power
• escape from a short bout of non-lucidity in the middle of the dream
• stabilize a dream in a new way
• complete a TOTM
• build and destroy something through mind control
• reunite with an original DC I was particularly fond of (not summoned consciously but still a win)
• remind myself of an earlier part of the dream without losing lucidity
• have sex without waking up

I am so excited about this. I was hoping to have an LD longer than 5 minutes, but this was above and beyond expectations! I can't wait to have another dream like this, now that I know what is possible.

Dream part 1 and part 2.

Congrats!

That second link is broken though, in your DJ too (the to be continued link). Where'd you want it to point to?

Oh, I still had it in draft mode. Thanks for letting me know. Does it work now?

Welcome home, Sibyline! Sounds like a very successful vacation! I'm looking forward to checking that DJ entry out. I'll be looking for the part where you "stab your BFF".

BTW, both links seem to work for me now, so looks like it's fixed!