Greetings from the Real World

[rogrossm]

I just did a reality check so I'm reasonably sure I'm writing now from the real world I'm glad to have found DreamViews and happy to meet you all! I stumbled across this site yesterday and I was delighted to see such an active community of lucid dreamers. Lucid dreaming is something I have wanted to explore for a long time, but the time hasn't been right until NOW. I'm 42 years old, male, an American who has lived in Hungary for the last 20 years. I've spent most of my life in the business world, but I also worked for 2 years as an apprentice to a Shuar Ayahuasca shaman. That gave me some fairly deep experiences in the spiritual worlds, I guess similar in some ways to lucid dreaming in that an inner reality opens up. I've also indulged in a variety of spiritual and personal development practices, but dreaming has always eluded me. The reason is that I have been very ill. The disease I have been fighting with for the past 20 years disrupted my sleep and entire nervous system function. I had zero dream recall during this time. However just over the past several weeks the illness has begun to clear (due to a new dietary protocol) and my dreams have opened up! Yesterday I had an extraordinarily vivid dream which taught me and guided me on many levels. It was a clear signal from my subconscious that my dream world is opening up, and now is the time for me to explore it. This morning I attempted to induce a dream via the WILD method and had some success. I found myself in the dream I wanted, with limited consciousness and control. However the dream was very unfocused and unstable. Ah well - I've got lots to learn. I've practiced yoga nidra once or twice daily for several years, and I think this is excellent training for lucid dreaming, since yoga nidra is essentially a practice where you allow your body to fall asleep, while keeping the mind awake and controlling the images the mind creates. So, I'm very excited to be here and get to know you all better!

[Neo131x]

Reading the title I thought it was going to be a hate thread...

[Wolfwood]

Welcome to Dream Views. I'm glad to hear you've had success very early with the WILD method, and only hope you've continuing success. What's your general belief with regards to the 'reality' of the dream world?

[Dark_Merlin]

Welcome to Dream Views! I'm sure you'll find that your previous experience, especially with yoga nidra, will help you greatly with Lucid Dreaming I'm curious as to your experiences working as an apprentice to a shaman, would you be able to describe more of your experiences in regards to that? Good luck! I hope your health continues to improve so that you can continue to enjoy the wonderful world that is lucid dreaming

[rogrossm]

Hey there Wolfwood: What's your general belief with regards to the 'reality' of the dream world? Well, when I was working with the Ayahuasca shaman I had many experiences with visions in which there was communication - or communion of some kind - with what the shaman would call "spirits". In the Western World we have trouble with that word because we don't believe in spirits. I also met a lot of "E.T.s" - at least that is what they seemed to be. Several times I asked them, "are you real, or just in my mind?" Each time they would just laugh at me and tell me something like, "you foolish child, don't you know by now there's no difference?" Once I asked them, "Do you really exist?" They laughed and said, "No, of course not! That's a human concept and complete fiction. We don't have time for nonsense like that - we have PLAY to do!" I also had a spiritual teacher and I asked him the same question - "how do I know which voices are real?" He said, "they're ALL real..." In this way they gradually taught me to stop asking. I ended up feeling that human concepts of "exist" and "not exist" don't really apply ... the teachings are very real, though. But people who get caught up in metaphysics always seem to end up ungrounded. So I guess that's how I feel about the dream world as well. I don't ask the question - I just accept every experience as real, in its own way. The so-called "real world" is a kind of dream too ... two people can be in the same room, witness the same event, and have completely different experiences and memories. Hello Dark Merlin! I'm curious as to your experiences working as an apprentice to a shaman, would you be able to describe more of your experiences in regards to that? it's very difficult to describe ... the Medicine initiates a process of self-transformation that can take place through visions, through physical purification, through insights ... actually there is no end to the kind of effects this work can have. My experience was very much like allowing "magic" into my world. However, it almost destroyed my family. My wife did not like it at all, she said I became very ungrounded. And my health was very poor at the time - I have always felt that the shamanic Medicine saved my life, but my wife feels it almost killed me! I am glad this shaman is here working in Europe, because Europe needs to "wake up" very badly. But it can be really brutal ... Really, if you feel it "calls" you, the only way to understand it is to try it ... it's an experience that defied description. Which should be something most lucid dreamers can relate to

[gab]

Szia rogrossm and welcome Everything you say is very interesting. Looking forward to your posts about your take on differences/similarities between shamanic trance/experiences and lucid dreams, or anything else from your experiences. What do you think the spirits meant when you asked them this Several times I asked them, "are you real, or just in my mind?" Each time they would just laugh at me and tell me something like, "you foolish child, don't you know by now there's no difference?" Is our waking life just another alternate reality, a dream like state? Wish you good health and happy dreams

[Wolfwood]

Hey there Wolfwood: Well, when I was working with the Ayahuasca shaman I had many experiences with visions in which there was communication - or communion of some kind - with what the shaman would call "spirits". In the Western World we have trouble with that word because we don't believe in spirits. I also met a lot of "E.T.s" - at least that is what they seemed to be. Several times I asked them, "are you real, or just in my mind?" Each time they would just laugh at me and tell me something like, "you foolish child, don't you know by now there's no difference?" Once I asked them, "Do you really exist?" They laughed and said, "No, of course not! That's a human concept and complete fiction. We don't have time for nonsense like that - we have PLAY to do!" I also had a spiritual teacher and I asked him the same question - "how do I know which voices are real?" He said, "they're ALL real..." In this way they gradually taught me to stop asking. I ended up feeling that human concepts of "exist" and "not exist" don't really apply ... the teachings are very real, though. But people who get caught up in metaphysics always seem to end up ungrounded. So I guess that's how I feel about the dream world as well. I don't ask the question - I just accept every experience as real, in its own way. The so-called "real world" is a kind of dream too ... two people can be in the same room, witness the same event, and have completely different experiences and memories. Hello Dark Merlin! it's very difficult to describe ... the Medicine initiates a process of self-transformation that can take place through visions, through physical purification, through insights ... actually there is no end to the kind of effects this work can have. My experience was very much like allowing "magic" into my world. However, it almost destroyed my family. My wife did not like it at all, she said I became very ungrounded. And my health was very poor at the time - I have always felt that the shamanic Medicine saved my life, but my wife feels it almost killed me! I am glad this shaman is here working in Europe, because Europe needs to "wake up" very badly. But it can be really brutal ... Really, if you feel it "calls" you, the only way to understand it is to try it ... it's an experience that defied description. Which should be something most lucid dreamers can relate to Hehe, interesting. Their answers for your questions seem to suggest what, fundamentally, reality is. An illusion - at least insofar as everything we perceive being a complex interpretation of light and darkness. The data passes through the senses, enter the relevant parts of the brain, and a model of reality is constructed. This is what we perceive, and this same model is used as a projection during dreaming....except that being a projection, its resolution and patterns can be 'perfected' beyond what the senses can perceive. I understand from a subjective viewpoint that whatever experience you have has some reality, whether imagined or not. Simply because you experience it. I get that, which is why for me, the only variable that I believe differentiates reality from fiction is consistency. I'd be interested in knowing about the consistency of these encounters: did their identity, appearance, personality etc have consistency, stability? Of course, this implies that schizophrenics with stable, consistent delusions are experiencing a reality, and I would concur. It's not objective, no, but to the individual it is part of their life and affects it as much as 'reality'.

[Arch]

Welcome to Dreamviews, I'm glad to see you have had success with the WILD technique, its a tough technique so keep at it

[rogrossm]

Hehe, interesting. Their answers for your questions seem to suggest what, fundamentally, reality is. An illusion - at least insofar as everything we perceive being a complex interpretation of light and darkness. The data passes through the senses, enter the relevant parts of the brain, and a model of reality is constructed. This is what we perceive, and this same model is used as a projection during dreaming....except that being a projection, its resolution and patterns can be 'perfected' beyond what the senses can perceive. I understand from a subjective viewpoint that whatever experience you have has some reality, whether imagined or not. Simply because you experience it. Yes, that's exactly how I interpret it all as well. If you can learn from it and it has value, then that is a type of reality in itself. Because it can change your life. Of course, it's already a metaphysical assumption to call the "spirits" "they" ... or to even assume that "they" have any external reality at all. Maybe something like dream characters ... are they "just" images we conjure up in our minds, or do they have some existence of their own? I think the point these "spirits" were making to me was, there is no value in thinking about questions like this. Rather, I was being taught to accept the experience without interpretation and try to learn what I could from it, in a way I could apply in my life. No point in thinking about the inscrutable. I'd be interested in knowing about the consistency of these encounters: did their identity, appearance, personality etc have consistency, stability? Good question! But I really don't know ... it's very hard to interpret these experiences ... To me this is all very related to dreaming, and that's why I'm so glad to have found this community. I no longer drink Ayahuasca, but I still wish to learn from these "inner teachers." There is so much to learn here!