Thread: Since the Late 1950's

"I directly know the state of being prior to perception" You do not see any logical error in this construction? This is something beyond my power, to perceive before perception. Plato played with the inscription "Know Thyself" as he knew that the way it was traditionally thought to mean is self-referential and thus impossible. When principles of reasoning are not operant in your mind, then one cannot even read and understand correctly. It is these faults that produce mystics.

Plato actually wrote a specific piece dealing with relation to self, Charmides. Keeping with his use of that logical form as an outline of the piece, Charmides was actually related to Plato. It is well worth the study.


Let me address a distinct and separate issue. I acquired "The Science of Yoga". by I.K. Taimni while I was stationed in Thailand during the Vietnam war. Just reading the work made my head hurt. I studied the work, not because of what Taimni wrote, but because of the sutras themselves. If one has any kind of a memory at all, even if it is something as strange as Sanskrit, one could see a grave inconsistency in the translation. Later, when I had a place of my own, I took a closer look at the sutras. I used the online dictionaries and compiled an almost exhaustive dictionary particular to the sutras themselves. I even made a couple PDF handbooks of Sanskrit grammar.

I found that the sutras are written in a formal style--and are very much modeled after Plato's theory of forms. Patanjali was a Sanskrit scholar, a realist, not a mystic. In order for the sutras to be mistranslated as badly as they are, a second Patanjali was created to support the myth about the sutras.

Whenever one is dealing with any type of religion or cult, start with the founding documents themselves and forget the commentaries. Read the man. The really nice trick about the Yoga Sutras, is, being one doctrine about awareness and reality, how it spawned so many different kinds of so called Yoga, each with a different doctrine. These were often spawned from just one line of the Sutras themselves--and each of them denying the reality in front of their face in preference to imagination. This effect is brought about because logical structures are, once again, not a functional part of their mind.

One of the items that mystics love, is untranslated foreign words, as if reality is not the same for each and every one of us. On this account, I will leave you. I am not a mystic, nor do I agree in the methods of transmitting mysticism.

Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

"I directly know the state of being prior to perception" You do not see any logical error in this construction? .

Give me some leeway on the use of lingual terms here as some may or may not "fit" the situation as applied.

Of course I do see such error in logic. However, the experience was there, and through memory is there now. Such a experience has been on several occasions now. This is a given with me. The knowing of it is there on this consciousness and in such a way it cannot be doubted or denied.

Being on the memory, that means the experience could not have occured prior to this mental and conscious construct. I liken it to having to build the mirror before one can see ones own face.

Knowledge of that "prior" state has to occur on the conscious mental construct.

Looking at this it woul also sem likely that this prior state could only be "known" by directy being of that state.

So, logically that would lean to the tieing of the prior state to the physical conscious state in some inseperable way.

I would like to note, that I am not trying to prove anything to anyone for any sort of external purpose, what I am doing is trying to know more about the things I have experienced, or the " visions' I have had. I learn more whether others agree or disagree, it is the exchanges I find all sorts of little helpful "utensils".

Any thoughts?

None at all. The only two visions I have had happened in real time, while making a fatal error. By rights, I should have been killed by my own stupidity about thrity years ago. I count it a blessing that I have not had a vision since, as that would mean that I was still making very bad choices.

Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

By rights, I should have been killed by my own stupidity about thrity years ago. I count it a blessing that I have not had a vision since, as that would mean that I was still making very bad choices.

You have mentioned that twice now, please elaborate.

Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

I started lucid dreaming very young with a question. It took my third try to achieve it.

When things were not adding up, I learned that dreams were a form of experience tailored to individual minds, but not by that mind. One can react in the dream, but have little control of the environment of that dream. It is a form of psychological modification, lessons if you will. Often questions one must learn to comprehend and answer.

Isn't controlling the dream environment one of the key motivations for learning to have lucid dreams? I know I'm able to exert a fair amount of control over the environments in the few LDs I've had.

What I found is that one can, like being awake, control one's responses to the environment, however, contol of the environment itself is either very difficult or in many cases was not possible. Secondly, when I went into state to see if I could use the state to practice math in, instead I was tested.
I will say this, one of the best experiences in state is listening to music, so beautiful its not even discribable.

As far as the visions go, these were years before it was indicated to me to read the Scripture, before I knew what a vision was. At the time of their happening, I tucked them away as being wholly impossible--except for the fact that I should have been killed--but because of the vision, I was given a choice. I was allowed to see what I couild not see.

The second of these I will elaborate.
I was pulling out of Wall Mart down south. However, there was traffic lined up to get into the place, and the road was at the top of a slope. I could not see oncoming traffic, so I just waited for a break in what I could see. There was me, my wife, and her grandmother in the front seat. As soon as I hit the gas, time stopped. I found myself some 500 feet away, standing in the middle of the road. I could see my car, me and the other passengers. I could also see a car doing 55 + coming down the road. I could not believe it, this cannot happen. I decided to study the oncoming car, I seen two passengers front seat. I took my time. It seemed that I had all the time in the world. Then I was back behind the wheel. Time was still stopped. I was still in disbelief. I thought, I can ignore all this, or I can act on what I cannot see. I decided to act, as soon as I did, time started again. I was hitting the break and turning the wheel. The car slid around me, did not even touch me, I made a note to check out the front seat, yes, there were two in the front. I then, in shock proceeded on my way. Had I not reacted, had not learned, it would have impacted my door at over 50 mph. In an old ford, I would have been killed as my head exploded agains the side window. What really puzzled me is that in so far as how fast everything happened, and how much time I was given to examine and think about everything, from what I have read, the human mind cannot even think that fast. I really did take my time, I was in shock that such things could happen.

At that time, I was still studying Lucid Dreaming under the assumption that I was playing with my own subconsciousness. Years later, when I read the scripture pertaining to visions, it is plainly stated, they would be limited to immediate happenings for a reason.

Wow, if thats true, thats an incredible story.

I have never been religious, nor spiritual. I found the whole thing simply at odds with everything I believed.

I have postulated an idea. That there is life in the Galaxie and it is very old and very advanced. However, like tenders of the stars, there is a watermark of rationality that must be attained to, before one is even considered sentient. Maybe the Earth is considered a wild life preserve.

What I find even harder to believe, that because of these visions, and learning the language of the dream, by definition I am a prophet--which is one of the last things in the world I would ever want to be. Surely, anyone can learn as I have, what is the point? I don't know. I do know this, when shock passed away, anger set in. Why of all the people in the world, was my sorry ass saved, surely there are many who are worthy and they should have been instead of me.

I am still not religious, nor do I believe in life after death. As far as religion goes, what I see is -- well to put it in the words of the text itself, a text written to "test the heart of man"--- heart is a parable for mind. The reason that is so, what it takes in, is exactly what is inside, is exactly what it puts out---the metaphor is based on truth. It is a test of the human mind.

Aha! You're still here! I knew you wouldn't abandon me like that. =)

How do you know it is me? I might be a fragment of some wino's imagination?

See if anyone can guess what this means. It is really quite simple.

I was shown a sign in a lucid dreamstate, the results of a question,

"Express C.M."

I admit, it took me years of study to comprehend it because I had not learned the principles involved.

It's okay. I accept you for who you are. =)

Well, that makes one of us, cept you have no idea, you just have no idea. There are things I just cannot talk about.

I understand. Let's not spoil the moment with words, anyway.

Okay, I will quietly munch my Honey Roasted Peanuts. Okay, times up. So why does one of your profiles say you are 11 and another says you are 20?

Let's not spoil it with obnoxious crunching and the fact that you aren't sharing with me. Also, those were words.

Do you believe that Muhammad was a Prophet? I know he claimed to be the Prophet who would come after Christ, however, that Prophet was suppose to do some very specific things, which he did not do. These things are written of him from the front to the back of the Scripture.

Whoops. Let me go ahead and adjust that for increased clarity.

Okay, thats better. Question answered. You know of course, that in some countries, that warrents a death sentence? It is dangerous. And now that you found me, which is better than I hope to achieve, I would hate to be lost by someone again.

I would liketo thank you for your commentaries thus far. I have found some of it helpful putting into focus a few things I have been dwelling upon.

You are welcome. You made me remember questions I asked long ago.

Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

You know of course, that in some countries, that warrents a death sentence? It is dangerous.

No worries. I'll just explain to them that I did it for the lulz.

It is kinda hard to explain things when your head is not in the same vacinity as your body. A crowd recently wanted to behead a teacher for naming a teddy bear Muhammad. From what was on the News, she was sentenced to 15 days in jail and deported.

Yeah, or I could tell them before they cut my head off.

So, you evaded my question as to your age.