Thread: Since the Late 1950's

I started lucid dreaming very young with a question. It took my third try to achieve it.
I believed for a long time I was dealing with my sub consciousness.

I learned that one can dream in any and every sense.

I learned that one can stay lucid through mulitple dreams, and the time between them.

When things were not adding up, I learned that dreams were a form of experience tailored to individual minds, but not by that mind. One can react in the dream, but have little control of the environment of that dream. It is a form of psychological modification, lessons if you will. Often questions one must learn to comprehend and answer.

One can even have visual recall in a dream.

I came to a stage where I could see things to come even while awake. I turned away from it--because I understood that it was a question.

I learned how to ask questions, and how to understand the answers given back in metaphor.

It was indicated that I have something to write and express. It is about the fundamentals of language itself--about human judgment. The relationship between the human body, abstraction, convention of names, and metaphor as a means of testing the mind for functionality.

I have spent years in study. The path I was set on was enough for me to focus my studies on questions never answered.

I can see how the Bible is sealed, it is sealed because of linguistic structures not operating in the mind. They are simple structures. Plato did have the answer, however not even Aristotle understood. Even the principles of predication he got wrong.

I have solved the Delian Problem, and know why it was given--the answer has to do with judgment itself and how language is based on definition and what a definition is. I learned what a description is for.

I am here looking for someone who sees what others do not. I need to find a way to express what I have learned. I am looking for a life partner.

What lucid dreaming is, why it would dispear, when it would return is given in the Judeo-Christian Scriptures, but I am not religious. I do know, man is not sane--most cannot even think at all.

It's awesome you still have the ability since a young age. I have a question though -- when you say you could see things to come, even while awake, how is that?

You ask a question and close your eyes, and learn to say what you see. This is the foundation of language, and it depends a great deal on being able to abstract the similar idea in the multiple examples, as Plato tried to get his readers to abstract.

It is a question about vision itself.

I will add, that it is not by one's own ability. It depends on where they are at in the way of development. First of all, the future does not exist. But you can be informed what will be--often in metaphor you will not understand until after the event.

to DreamViews, Philospher!

It sounds like you have a lot of experience with lucid dreaming!

I certainly can't help much with the 'life partner' thing, but I'm very interested in hearing/reading anything you have to say or need to communicate. What you have said so far is compelling.

I see no more than anybody else, I'm afraid... but I do not accept most explanations for what I DO see.

One has to stop approaching Lucid Dreaming as a free for all fantasy state. The human mind has a specific job to do. More fantasy is not worth spit.

The human mind takes experience, processes those experiences in order to predict the resulsts of human behavior that sustains and promotes the life of the body. It's function is to predict the future--its own future.

As of yet you do not know the difference between doing as you please and willing it. You will find this in Plato.

But if you take one definition of the human mind--to predict the results of human behavior, you know that a function of language is just that. You will note that both reasoning and prophecy have the same definition. With certain givens predict a result.

So, you can choose to believe in a tense error "the future is" and flatter yourself that you can see it. Or you can realize that when you learn of it, it is communication--i.e. linguistic.

Now HERE IS THE IMPORTANT PART. If you should realize that God does exist--you must also realize that there is a difference between what you want God to be, between what myth says God is. And between what you directly learn yourself.

The lessons are hard in lucid dreaming. Very hard. They are all geared to develope human understanding, and the ability of man to actually have a will.

They are lessons. Specific to your own psycholigcal faults. That is why no two people are going to have the same freedom in state. Nor will you have the same freedoms in every lesson. Certain things will repeat until you understand.

Secondly, it is about getting understanding. It is a whole life project, awake or alseep.

I have not had time to read all these responses in whole. I have to get ready for work.

If you note, I started lucid dreaming in the 50's it was rediscovered in the 60's. I have not followed what has been going on in it. I have set myself to following the path of understanding given to me. As a fantasy state, I have no interest in it. As a mystical state--it is just plain worthless.

If you have had OOB, and are honest, you will note that there were always differences between the OOB and waking. In othe words, if you wanted to fool yourself that you were actually out of your body, it was not because of the state. It was your own desire to lie to yourself. Not a pretty picture that is.

As far as religion goes, you may come to a point where it is indicated to you to read the Bible. What you start to comprehend will be significanly different than what is in myth. Don't confront fanatiics--or religious people. They can not see it. It is not their fault. It is just their level of mental development.

Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

You ask a question and close your eyes, and learn to say what you see. This is the foundation of language, and it depends a great deal on being able to abstract the similar idea in the multiple examples, as Plato tried to get his readers to abstract.

It is a question about vision itself.

I will add, that it is not by one's own ability. It depends on where they are at in the way of development. First of all, the future does not exist. But you can be informed what will be--often in metaphor you will not understand until after the event.

It reminds me of remote viewing.

But, as you are a philosopher, and i enjoy considering myself some sort of a philosopher, i must argue -- you say the future does not exist. And then you say you close your eyes and essentially, view the future: "close your eyes and learn to say what you see." In this, you see "things to come." Things to come would mean the future.

So if you see something from the future, and yet the future does not exist, you are essentially seeing something that doesn't exist. So when you see this thing, if it relates to you, you can choose to manipulate the "future," which doesn't exist anyway, so basically you're veiwing a random event your mind makes up. Your actions in the coming time before this event may lead to the future you have seen consciously or subconsciously, because you believe it is the future. And yet, it doesn't exist. Or, on the contrary, you can choose to avoid this path again consciously or subconsciously.

So maybe it's not a question of you seeing the future, more like you seeing an event you are able to create through upcoming actions.

Of course, there's a lot of fault in my argument, but i'm just playing around. It's no offense to you or anything; i believe what you are able to currently do is astounding. I just had to find a hole

[EDIT]
I just re-read this and realized that while saying you are able to create an event through your upcoming actions, i'm saying you are able to create the future. So actually, you are seeing the future, a future in which you create. Jeez, i'm pretty bad at this

I guess my point is this: the future that you see, if you call it the future, is the future only if the event happens. If this future does not happen and/or you can manipulate these events, it's really not the future, it's just a random metaphor you see. But you've already stated the future does not exist. So do you see the future?

I will give you one example: I learned that the couple next door had learned that the lady was preg. She asked me what I saw. I saw a boy in the light and a girl in the dark. I told her I saw nothing. Down the road, a bit she learned that they detected 2 hearbeats. she was going to have twins. I waited. Come time for deliverty, when her husband fainally came home from the hospital, he did not look happy. I asked, what did you have. He sadly said a son.

One of the odd things in seeing has been noted, one hardly ever sees things for themselves. When they do, it is cloaked in metaphor they will not understand until after the event. This insures that they cannot create it--but it should make them realize something about will.

Seeing is a question. Is it by your understanding your will? You have to answer. Learning the answer may run you ragged.

As i understand it, you had the option to tell the expecting mother what you saw. It may have changed something, but yet it may have changed nothing. By not telling her and waiting to see the results, you essentially did not display any free will towards the future event -- although you may not have known what it meant, if you chose to tell the mother what you saw it may have "changed the future," changed what you saw in the vision. Brings me back to Philosophy 101 and all the talk about will

So when you say, "Is it by your understanding your will?" i had a whole thought process going on but i'm not even going to try to type it out; it'll be messy and all over the place. I guess you're right, the answer really will run me ragged.

So how did you develop this seeing, did you practice? Did you have any idea what was going on? I'm sure that must have been a strange and maybe even scary process.

I wish I couldn't think...

Relation to self is altogether inadamissable. Plato

I actually have so many projects to do, I don't really have an excuss of "noting to do". I have been contemplating making cartoons that explain step by step the principles of grammar not yet taught. There are so many approaces. Formal, informal, visual, etc., Sad part is, so few are disciplined enough to formally follow a sentence much less an entire work. I think everyone missed a grand piece of historical humor. Plato and the theory of forms, based on truth. Spinoza, theory of material could not even construct the first proposition without a contradiction- and the rest of it kept getting worse-- and Einstein praised him! That is so funny.

A thing is any difference in any shape or form. So, one can have wave theory based on form, and quantum mechanics based on material--without a contradiction. The contradictions are introduce on the fundamental of mathematical theory, and an unawareness of just what one is naming with the numbers.

As I said, I have plenty to keep me busy while I attempt a reentry into lucid dreaming. I left it to verify the principles of grammar I was seeing. That is done.

I'll be your life partner.

First a relationship is an agreement between two people.
Second, it is not the mark of an honest person who tries to give away that which is not thiers to give. Perhaps you should ask someone what "the age of consent" means.

What a strange and unhappy life you must have, man. No offense, but I think you're a little in over your head.

Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

I started lucid dreaming very young with a question. It took my third try to achieve it.

When things were not adding up, I learned that dreams were a form of experience tailored to individual minds, but not by that mind. One can react in the dream, but have little control of the environment of that dream. It is a form of psychological modification, lessons if you will. Often questions one must learn to comprehend and answer.

Isn't controlling the dream environment one of the key motivations for learning to have lucid dreams? I know I'm able to exert a fair amount of control over the environments in the few LDs I've had.

What I found is that one can, like being awake, control one's responses to the environment, however, contol of the environment itself is either very difficult or in many cases was not possible. Secondly, when I went into state to see if I could use the state to practice math in, instead I was tested.
I will say this, one of the best experiences in state is listening to music, so beautiful its not even discribable.

As far as the visions go, these were years before it was indicated to me to read the Scripture, before I knew what a vision was. At the time of their happening, I tucked them away as being wholly impossible--except for the fact that I should have been killed--but because of the vision, I was given a choice. I was allowed to see what I couild not see.

The second of these I will elaborate.
I was pulling out of Wall Mart down south. However, there was traffic lined up to get into the place, and the road was at the top of a slope. I could not see oncoming traffic, so I just waited for a break in what I could see. There was me, my wife, and her grandmother in the front seat. As soon as I hit the gas, time stopped. I found myself some 500 feet away, standing in the middle of the road. I could see my car, me and the other passengers. I could also see a car doing 55 + coming down the road. I could not believe it, this cannot happen. I decided to study the oncoming car, I seen two passengers front seat. I took my time. It seemed that I had all the time in the world. Then I was back behind the wheel. Time was still stopped. I was still in disbelief. I thought, I can ignore all this, or I can act on what I cannot see. I decided to act, as soon as I did, time started again. I was hitting the break and turning the wheel. The car slid around me, did not even touch me, I made a note to check out the front seat, yes, there were two in the front. I then, in shock proceeded on my way. Had I not reacted, had not learned, it would have impacted my door at over 50 mph. In an old ford, I would have been killed as my head exploded agains the side window. What really puzzled me is that in so far as how fast everything happened, and how much time I was given to examine and think about everything, from what I have read, the human mind cannot even think that fast. I really did take my time, I was in shock that such things could happen.

At that time, I was still studying Lucid Dreaming under the assumption that I was playing with my own subconsciousness. Years later, when I read the scripture pertaining to visions, it is plainly stated, they would be limited to immediate happenings for a reason.

Wow, if thats true, thats an incredible story.

I have never been religious, nor spiritual. I found the whole thing simply at odds with everything I believed.

I have postulated an idea. That there is life in the Galaxie and it is very old and very advanced. However, like tenders of the stars, there is a watermark of rationality that must be attained to, before one is even considered sentient. Maybe the Earth is considered a wild life preserve.

What I find even harder to believe, that because of these visions, and learning the language of the dream, by definition I am a prophet--which is one of the last things in the world I would ever want to be. Surely, anyone can learn as I have, what is the point? I don't know. I do know this, when shock passed away, anger set in. Why of all the people in the world, was my sorry ass saved, surely there are many who are worthy and they should have been instead of me.

I am still not religious, nor do I believe in life after death. As far as religion goes, what I see is -- well to put it in the words of the text itself, a text written to "test the heart of man"--- heart is a parable for mind. The reason that is so, what it takes in, is exactly what is inside, is exactly what it puts out---the metaphor is based on truth. It is a test of the human mind.

Aha! You're still here! I knew you wouldn't abandon me like that. =)

Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

nor do I believe in life after death.

What do you believe about death?

Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

What I found is that one can, like being awake, control one's responses to the environment, however, contol of the environment itself is either very difficult or in many cases was not possible. Secondly, when I went into state to see if I could use the state to practice math in, instead I was tested.
I will say this, one of the best experiences in state is listening to music, so beautiful its not even discribable.

Well what do you consider control. In my very first LD I was able to make a bus drive into my field of view from no where through will alone. No one on this board has considered that an exceptional feat.

i wonder if the ability to prozess information will make us, some day, happy... that you are, as you should knew