Rock, Paper, Scissors Machine

[Jesus of Suburbia]

Rock-Paper-Scissors: You vs. the Computer - Interactive Feature - NYTimes.com This is pretty cool. First, play against the one that's not veteran (I can't remember if it was beginner or what). Play five rounds or more, then click to see what it's "thinking". After that, do the same on veteran. I think it's pretty cool how this is set up.

[DeletePlease]

Beat it every time. Here's a strategy guide for all you amateurs out there: "Oh but Gavin, I'm vsing a computer, not a human opponent. D:" That attitude is the reason you keep losing, punk. Leave the sport of Rock, Paper, Scissors to real men and go back to your mamby-pamby games of football, you girl-boy.

[stormcrow]

Fuck yea. I always throw down paper. Now I'm going to get out of doing everything.

[thepractice]

I saw a Rock Paper Scissors Championship on ESPN once during Poker. There was this chick that had her moves worked out randomly beforehand. Dunno how she did.

[Xei]

Yeah, RPS 'strategy' is a load of bollocks. If you simply generate random moves (doing so beforehand with a die or something is probably the best way), there is absolutely no way that somebody can have better than 50/50 odds against you.

[Jesus of Suburbia]

"Hey, let's play rock, paper, scissors" "Hold on, let me go get a die, three coins to flip, and a revolver with one bullet" What the fuck is wrong with you? Why would you use a die to decide before every game?

[Xei]

Dies are pretty good at generating random numbers. Didn't you know? Yeah, it's one of their main functions.

[Artelis]

"Hey, let's play rock, paper, scissors" "Hold on, let me go get a die, three coins to flip, and a revolver with one bullet" What the fuck is wrong with you? Why would you use a die to decide before every game? your brain is REALLY bad at being random. A die is much better at it. And yes, Xei is right. If you don't ever think about your moves and they are 100% random (I know 100% random is a virtual impossibility, but that doesn't really matter), then it is IMPOSSIBLE to get an edge on another player. RPS championships are nothing more than people that don't understand statistics playing against other people that don't understand statistics. This is the same reason people think that the slot machine they've been playing at for 8 hours is bound to hit a jackpot soon.

[Jesus of Suburbia]

My point is that it's pretty fucking silly to fish out a die every time you play such a simple, meaningless game. But, on your point, 1. Dies are more likely to land on the six because the one side is heavier. Just sayin' 2. You don't want random numbers, you want to know what the other person is gonna throw out. Like the guide said, and as I've noticed in my lifetime, most people throw out rock first. That's why I always throw paper on the first throw. If the person sends out rock, I win. If the person expected me to use rock and sent out paper, it's a tie, and traditionally we play again. Why is an argument beginning about strategy in rock, paper, scissors, anyway? It seems so silly.

[Artelis]

My point is that it's pretty fucking silly to fish out a die every time you play such a simple, meaningless game. But, on your point, 1. Dies are more likely to land on the six because the one side is heavier. Just sayin' 2. You don't want random numbers, you want to know what the other person is gonna throw out. Like the guide said, and as I've noticed in my lifetime, most people throw out rock first. That's why I always throw paper on the first throw. If the person sends out rock, I win. If the person expected me to use rock and sent out paper, it's a tie, and traditionally we play again. Why is an argument beginning about strategy in rock, paper, scissors, anyway? It seems so silly. When you attempt to 'read' the other person, you become predictable. If you're random EVERY TIME, then your opponent CANNOT IN ANY CONCEIVABLE WAY ever get an edge on you. The games will always be 50/50. In fact, if he attempts to 'read' you while you're being random, you'll win more than 50% of the time and he'll start losing more than 50% of the time. This is a statistical fact. Law of large numbers, blah blah blah.

[Xei]

My point is that it's pretty fucking silly to fish out a die every time you play such a simple, meaningless game. But, on your point, 1. Dies are more likely to land on the six because the one side is heavier. Just sayin' 2. You don't want random numbers, you want to know what the other person is gonna throw out. Like the guide said, and as I've noticed in my lifetime, most people throw out rock first. That's why I always throw paper on the first throw. If the person sends out rock, I win. If the person expected me to use rock and sent out paper, it's a tie, and traditionally we play again. Why is an argument beginning about strategy in rock, paper, scissors, anyway? It seems so silly. Because after a short, civil and accurate post, you decided to say 'what the fuck is wrong with you, why is a die necessary?', you idiot. With respect to your points, 1. You're an idiot again, and 2. Can't you read?

[Jesus of Suburbia]

2. Can't you read? No, but it doesn't make you less wrong.

[Artelis]

No, but it doesn't make you less wrong. You can tell he's accepted defeat when he resorts to name calling.

[Xei]

No, but it doesn't make you less wrong. Okay maths is wrong rofl. Pro.

[Jesus of Suburbia]

It's only wrong on Fridays.

[saltyseedog]

the computer kicked my ass. Its hard.

[Jesus of Suburbia]

On Veteran, it's pretty much impossible to win except the first five times. The only time I won (post-five-games) was when I clicked "see what it's thinking" and it told me it's next move.

[Xei]

I beat it, 15-13, first time. Guess which tactics I used. Derp.

[Artelis]

I beat it, 15-13, first time. Guess which tactics I used. Derp. I bet you followed that picture up there right? Played the stats, won. Let's hit vegas baby!

[Jesus of Suburbia]

I beat it, 15-13, first time. Guess which tactics I used. Derp. But, you see, that computer isn't exactly the same as people. With a person, you can use random choices, sure, and it works, but what works better is using some of the things from that image up there. Unlike the computer, people don't run off of complex algorithms and memorize the results of every time they play RPS in order. So, we can instead look at the fact that, yes, people are more likely to throw out rock first, or yes, they're likely to throw out the last thing that beat them. People are affected by psychology, because they have a psyche, whereas a computer is not, because it doesn't.

[DuB]

Can you point to any actual non-anecdotal evidence that people do anything at all like what that image suggests?

[Jesus of Suburbia]

Not personally, but previous to the posting of this thread, I saw that image on its website of origin, and beneath it were sources. If someone who cared more than I would be willing to seek out the website of origin, I'm sure you'd find the evidence. Unfortunately, I'm not willing to find the site myself, because though I may give a fuck, I don't give that much of a fuck. If using anecdotal evidence though, I can confirm it.

[Artelis]

But, you see, that computer isn't exactly the same as people. With a person, you can use random choices, sure, and it works, but what works better is using some of the things from that image up there. Unlike the computer, people don't run off of complex algorithms and memorize the results of every time they play RPS in order. So, we can instead look at the fact that, yes, people are more likely to throw out rock first, or yes, they're likely to throw out the last thing that beat them. People are affected by psychology, because they have a psyche, whereas a computer is not, because it doesn't. right, what the computer does is analyze your moves and looks for a pattern. Computers are really good at that. BUT, if you play random (ie: throw a die for each choice (even though they're not perfect, sure, but pretty good)), then the computer has a hard time finding a pattern, bring the odds back down to pretty close to 50/50 (the computer will have a -slight- edge though because it's impossible to be 100% random, even with a really really good random number generator).

[Jesus of Suburbia]

right, what the computer does is analyze your moves and looks for a pattern. Computers are really good at that. BUT, if you play random (ie: throw a die for each choice (even though they're not perfect, sure, but pretty good)), then the computer has a hard time finding a pattern, bring the odds back down to pretty close to 50/50 (the computer will have a -slight- edge though because it's impossible to be 100% random, even with a really really good random number generator). Exactly what I said. But the image isn't made for playing against computers, it's made for playing against people.

[tommo]

I agree with Jesus somewhat. I always own at RPS coz I know almost exactly what the other player is thinking. As has been said, the 50/50 thing with random numbers is only correct if you're playing a random generator (i.e not a person). And I don't accept having a 50/50 chance as being a good strategy anyway, it means you're gonna lose half of the time, which means it's not a good strategy at all. How can you achieve anything through that? (assuming you'll achieve anything of worth from playing RPS lol)