Thread: Split from Smoking Weed & LD'ing

Are there any other marijuana smokers that believe this? That have experienced this? I really just can't take someone's word for anything.

are u serious? you clearly dont know much about drugs if you are arguing this point. this is not a theory of mine

Are there any other marijuana smokers that believe this? That have experienced this? I really just can't take someone's word for anything.[/b]

I'm a recreational toker (of about 16 years) and I can see both sides of yours and JayDawg's argument. I think Jay is getting a bit too zealous in his defense of smoking weed, which is understandable considering the volume of green he burns on a given day.

I personally don't think weed is any worse than cigarrettes and alcohol. But I also don't buy into the whole govt. conspiracy theory.

One reason marijuana is not (and prob will never be) legal is because of the lack of precise testing methods needed to determine exactly when someone is under the influence of cannibas.

For example, Joe Schmoe gets high and drives his car into a busy intersection and kills 2 or 3 people (excluding himself). The authorities arrive at the scene and arrest Joe. At that point, the cops usually test the offender (barring immediate medical attention of course) for any sort of alcohol in his system. With no way of successfully testing Joe for being high "at the time of the accident," there is no way to administer the correct punishment for his actions.

I know a lot of smokers say that they drive better when there stoned...utter bs! I know I drive slower and am more paranoid when when stoned, but this doesn't make me a better driver. Hell, if this was true then I drive better after several drinks...because I drive the exact same way when I'm drunk then I do when I'm high. (speaking from the distant past of course) ~

So to JayDawg - Weed affects different people in different ways. Just because weed may make you feel all enlightened and in tune with your surroundings, doesn't mean that it really does...nor does it have the same effect on everyone.

And to Stalin - Don't knock it, till you try it. ~

PS - Acid is my drug of choice...especially when pursuing that sense of enlightenment.

Originally posted by InTheMoment
And to Stalin - Don't knock it, till you try it. ~

Hey, I never really "knocked" it, but I see what you're saying.

The reason alcohol and marijuana have that effect is because each are depressants. They slow down reaction time and coordination in the nervous system. However, it depends on the person and the amount of each drug taken.

Originally posted by InTheMoment
With no way of successfully testing Joe for being high \"at the time of the accident,\" there is no way to administer the correct punishment for his actions.

why would being high affect his punishment, thats not a very good reason.


joe, whether you know it or not, all the best music is written and performed by stoned out people, and the harder the drug they are on, the better the music. i guess its different for everybody, because when im high and drunk i can play guitar and drums better than ever and with more coordination. if im drunk and high its like im playing but in slow motion so i can think faster and make the move before i have to. its amazing, AND i can beat halo2 on legendary like its nothing when im high and drunk. maybe this is just me, im not trying to assume everybody is the same. i know this is true for other bands too,so.

yeah i guess some people can be really dumb when intoxicated, but maybe it helps other people.

in the moment, the "enlightened feeling" is more than just a feeling because even when im off marijuana for a while, i still have the same trained mind.

Originally posted by jay dawg
why would being high affect his punishment, thats not a very good reason.

It's a good reason because it holds you on the grounds of being irresponsible under the influence of a drug. There is the chance one might have gotten into the same accident while not high, but the odds generally are much lower. But then again, this argument is on the grounds that being high can be tested. It's much easier with alcohol (although, witness acounts of the accused smoking marijuana in the car can be used as well).

joe, whether you know it or not, all the best music is written and performed by stoned out people, and the harder the drug they are on, the better the music.[/b]

The quality of music is subjective--what appears "the best" to you, maybe so-so or terrible to me, and vice-versa.

Originally posted by jay dawg
anyway, having increased thought patterns gives rise to perceiving things in a new light, than while not being high

I think you have the wrong idea here, its not increased thought patterns. You're only thinking different. Which is why you come to different conclusions, and sometimes come to big realisations that seem so simple afterwards. Being high does not make you think better, only more laterally. Which explains this....

in the moment, the \"enlightened feeling\" is more than just a feeling because even when im off marijuana for a while, i still have the same trained mind. [/b]

.. as you've just trained your mind to follow different thought patterns. Which you could certainly do through rigourous meditation training.

whether you know it or not, all the best music is written and performed by stoned out people, and the harder the drug they are on, the better the music.[/b]

Lots of bad music is written high as well, musicians like to do drugs. And by no means is "all the best music" written/performed high. Was Beethoven a stoner? Can classical musicians, who inarguably have the best technical proficiency with their instruments, perform high? Its just that if you happen to like hippie-jam-bands then yes, all of them write and perform high .

Just another thing on thinking better while high. Do me a favour and go cold turkey for a month. Guaranteed you'll notice you think more clearly

-spoon

hmmmm i just went cold turky last month and restarted a few days ago. IM NEVER LOOKIN BACK! man i almost didnt care that i quit (was trying to build recall at the time), but man i dunno what i was missing!! man coming off this last months cold turky only reinforced how awesome it truly is.


well you may be right about the thought patters being just "different" than normal, but aside from that i believe they are at a higher faster level as well. think about it, what is "paranoia"? its your mind working SO incredibly fast that no matter what happens your mind is subconsciously and consciously working all kinds of possibilities out from all angles in split seconds.

like check this out for example:



you may never have noticed it, but take your hand and block out the section below the guys neck. that eye on top is the illuminati's symbol, not to mention hes jewish and him and his other jew buddy spielburgh happen to be the 2 biggest movie makers alive.

i knew lucas was in the illuminati, but i never knew he ALSO had their primary symbol cleverly hidden in his logo as well(much like his fellow illuminists). well i never even saw the eye just from just being sorta high. one day i got so amazingly high and i turned on the game and literally, being almost too high to do it, when it started up i was blown away at how obvious the hidden eye was in the logo. and yes its cuz of the high that i clearly saw it this time. i know from past experience that marijuana does enhance the mind's thought capacity, PLEASE dont tell me it doesnt. you couldnt possibly know how my mind works while high. 8)

It's a good reason because it holds you on the grounds of being irresponsible under the influence of a drug. There is the chance one might have gotten into the same accident while not high, but the odds generally are much lower. But then again, this argument is on the grounds that being high can be tested. It's much easier with alcohol (although, witness acounts of the accused smoking marijuana in the car can be used as well).[/b]

hmmm a murder is a murder to me. i dont think whether someone is high or not is going to make any difference in the judgement. murder is wrong no matter how u look at it. that would be like adding in the fact that the guy ran a stop sign or didnt use his turn signal, its a little much in this case. even if it ever was made legal, it shouldnt matter if the person drives high or not, if they can handle it that is. all smokers know weed just makes things look closer and farther away at the same time while driving, so you drive more carefully, its actually an IMPROVEMENT lol. but you can drive a strait line easily. now when your drunk you cant tell if your drifting from side to side, thats dangerous. maybe other people cant do it but im telling you, i was driving home one night and it was one of those highs where u dont feel like your even there, like a dream, like your wondering who is controlling you and driving so perfectly because it feels like your watching from inside your own head, (higher states of consciousness). i got home just fine.

hmmm a murder is a murder to me. i dont think whether someone is high or not is going to make any difference in the judgement.[/b]

The following is an excerpt from the NY State Senate Majority from 01' of last year. Since they enacted the following legislation, 37 other states have since adopted the same criteria.

In addition, the Senate today also passed a bill (S.801), sponsored by Senator Carl Marcellino (R, Syosset), that includes the utilization of drugs under the category of driving while ability impaired.

<snip>

\"Routinely, first time offenders charged with driving while impaired by drugs are offered a plea to a lesser charge of driving while impaired by alcohol,\" said Senator Marcellino. *\"This is a serious deficiency and a distinct problem. *We should not have defendants pleading guilty to an alcohol charge when in truth, they are guilty of a drug charge. *A law enforcement officer viewing a defendant's prior history should know that the person had been guilty of a drug charge, not a fictional alcohol charge.\"[/b]

here
Emphasis mine in the above quote.

all smokers know weed just makes things look closer and farther away at the same time while driving,[/b]

That's called losing your depth perception.

i was driving home one night and it was one of those highs where u dont feel like your even there, like a dream, like your wondering who is controlling you and driving so perfectly because it feels like your watching from inside your own head, (higher states of consciousness). i got home just fine.[/b]

I've gotten home high and drunk thousands of time. Sure, I can look back at some of those instances and say I was so aware/focused/paranoid that it allowed me to drive more safe...but the number of times where I was like "wtf?!?...how in the hell did I make it home??" greatly outnumbers the aforementioned.

Originally posted by InTheMoment+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(InTheMoment)</div>

I personally don't think weed is any worse than cigarrettes and alcohol. But I also don't buy into the whole govt. conspiracy theory. [/b]

Conspiracy theory wouldn't be the term I'd use, it's more of a secret plan...?

<!--QuoteBegin-InTheMoment
One reason marijuana is not *(and prob will never be) legal is because of the lack of *precise testing methods needed to determine exactly when someone is under the influence of cannibas. *

For example, Joe Schmoe gets high and drives his car into a busy intersection and kills 2 or 3 people (excluding himself). The authorities arrive at the scene and arrest Joe. At that point, the cops usually test the offender (barring immediate medical attention of course) for any sort of alcohol in his system. With no way of successfully testing Joe for being high \"at the time of the accident,\" there is no way to administer the correct punishment for his actions.

Actually, the technology in this department is so advanced they can tell if you're high by swabbing saliva from the cheek of your mouth

Originally posted by InTheMoment+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(InTheMoment)</div>

I know a lot of smokers say that they drive better when there stoned...utter bs! I know I drive slower and am more paranoid when when stoned, but this doesn't make me a better driver. Hell, if this was true then I drive better after several drinks...because I drive the exact same way when I'm drunk then I do when I'm high. (speaking from the distant past of course) ~ [/b]

From somebody that's smoked marijuana for about 7 years and been an practicing alcoholic for 2 years, there is no way I can compare having some drinks to smoking some bongs. The two are on a totally different spectrum.

<!--QuoteBegin-InTheMoment

PS - Acid is my drug of choice...especially when pursuing that sense of enlightenment.

EEK! ACID?! DRUG OF CHOICE?! I hate acid...it's so fake. I have tried acid, so I can knock it, hehe If you're really into mind expansion though...PM me dude.

themindsi wrote:

Conspiracy theory wouldn't be the term I'd use, it's more of a secret plan...? [/b]

Is there really a difference?

Actually, the technology in this department is so advanced they can tell if you're high by swabbing saliva from the cheek of your mouth[/b]

But until it's proven as effective as Breath, Urine and Blood tests, it cannot be held as conclusive evidence that the individual was under the influence of marijuana at the time of the accident.

Also, if an individual being tested has recently smoked, say, a marijuana joint, saliva concentrations of tetrahydrocannabinol will likely be elevated. Tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, is the active ingredient in marijuana. That would make saliva, at least temporarily, a poor predictor of how much THC is in the blood or other specimens. Several hours would have to pass and repeat test would be needed before saliva concentrations will actually correlate with those in the blood. The same is true for other drugs.

Furthur, the methods used to stimulate the flow of saliva and collect it can affect the results. Collection by an absorbent dental swab placed in the mouth, for example, requires an additional testing step of separating the saliva from the swab that spitting into a container does not.[/b]

source here

From somebody that's smoked marijuana for about 7 years and been an practicing alcoholic for 2 years, there is no way I can compare having some drinks to smoking some bongs. The two are on a totally different spectrum.[/b]

I agree that there both on totally different spectrums...with there only similarity being that neither mixes well with driving. This coming from someone that has smoke marijuana for about 16 years and a (self admitting) alcoholic for at least 8 years. Btw, I drive much better after a few drinks than I do after a few bong hits...but hey, that's just me.

EEK! ACID?! DRUG OF CHOICE?! I hate acid...it's so fake. I have tried acid, so I can knock it, hehe *If you're really into mind expansion though...PM me dude.[/b]

Like I've said before, "too each his own." I'm assuming your strictly into hydroponics, which is cool and all, I just prefer the intensity of LSD.

Originally posted by themindsi


Come meet me and tell me I need to wake up from my stupor, please! *Some of the most brilliant people I have ever met are stoners and some don't use drugs at all. *You can't blame marijuana for someones personal mindset.

Brillance to one person may be a 10th grade equivalance to another!
And that is my point. Being high on a drug is not someones mind set. It is an altered version of their mind, masked by their drug of choice.

[quote]

Brillance to one person may be a 10th grade equivalance to another!
And that is my point. Being high on a drug is not someones mind set. It is an altered version of their mind, masked by their drug of choice.



"enhanced by their drug of choice"

1. it gives you lung cancer and heart disease
- There has not been ONE single case of lung cancer from smoking ONLY Marijuana. There are no direct links from Marijuana to Cancer as there HAVEN'T BEEN ANY CASES. Sure, there are just as much carcinogens in Marijuana as there are Tobacco - but how come, after we have seen elderly that smoked a lot of Marijuana in their day, there aren't ANY cases of cancer? Oh wait, because you listened to your uneducated Health teacher in high school that likes to propogate rumors he hears on biased news stations. Let me tell you something - just because people are older than you and supposedly more "wise", that does NOT mean that they will tell you the truth. Everybody has their own agenda. *cough* government and lies about marijuana

2. CAUSES bone disease when you are older if you smoke every day for the rest of your LIFE
- Oh? Same thing with the above response. Completely irrelevant non-sense created to scare the kids away from smoking marijuana. DO NOT attempt to get your facts just by googling "what is marijuana". Actually go to an unbiased place for facts such as www.norml.org or www.erowid.org.

3. it MAY cause mental illnesses, such as schizophrenia, etc
- Please, keep taking supposed "facts" out of context. There is a difference. Marijuana can BRING OUT your personality much more than when you are sober. If you do have underlying medical conditions, THEY WILL be more noticeable, and in some extreme cases it make trigger an episode of schizophrenia if you do, in fact, have an underlying condition of schizophrenia.

4. it makes you very lazy and lethargic
- It may make you tired and lethargic - however this is primarily only for a few hours after smoking Marijuana. This will NOT make you lazy if you have not been smoking, it is purely a factor of motivation. If there's a drug that can make somebody lazy, then it is the first drug to permanently change a person's attributes of their personalities. Guess what, it doesn't and the "lazyless" subsides once all of the THC has been rid of in your system.

5. Alters your train of thought, and leads to poor health and impotence
- Yes, it alters your train of thought.. WHEN YOU'RE HIGH. I think most people fail to mention that all of the side effects of marijuana are generally ONLY when you're intoxicated in the first place. Do you think that smoking marijuana will make you suddenly eat junk food? You make a conscious decision whether or not you want to eat healthy or junk food. Therefore, how can it lead to poor health? On the topic of impotence, tell me what the correlation is between IMPOTENCE and MARIJUANA. The systems affected ONLY UNDER THE INFLUENCE are completely seperate and unrelated to the production of quality sperm.

The lesson is, please do your research before you start spreading propaganda. Furthermore, take time to realize that not everything you hear is true - unless you read PROPER and UNBIASED facts based off of actual studies, you are not educated in the matter. For further information, go to www.norml.org or for the most part www.erowid.org

Heh, you guys get heated in here.

As far as conspiracy goes, its AMAZING how a few actually evil people can affect the whole world. check this out: http://leap.cc/audiovideo/LEAPpromo.htm

These guys are a pretty credibal organization. Pay particular attention to the part about private jails. .. The influence of lobbyist money is easily compounded in a government of males over the age of 50, who existed in a time period where the only tokers were also acid junkies following either jerry garcia or timothy leary and were generally behaving as if they were from another planet, this behavior, of course, made the hard line, falsifide, anti-pot propaganda way more believable.

The real tragedy of prohibition, in my mind, was cited by Jay Dawg (i think) about "almost called the cops on my mom." People who don't know, can't comment, and people who do know are criminals and can't comment. What we need in this country are all the people who got high, quit for they're own reasons, and came back from the minds frontier with the truth which they are willing to share.

I came back, but I got into so much trouble on the trip that I will probably never be capable of having a significant, direct impact. I am someone who had a problem with weed, it made my life worse off. Number one, I could almost never remember my dreams when I was smoking. Number two, my ambition was fleeting, not that wanting to live for the moment is a bad thing, some people desperatly need this sort of influence. Not me, I would have been better off working to do the things i was "dreaming" of.

Having pot smoking as taboo in society is one thing, having it so taboo that one can be kidnapped by the government for practicing it is ridiculous, unless of course, it creates a ton of jobs and fosters ignorant, faith based behavior in the masses.

I have personally seen that all the people that smoke pot on a consistent basis are very unmotivated and a little out of perspective.
I also have a friend that is a clinical mess if he does not smoke it. Is there an alternative? I don't know!

Anyway. I just wanted to play the devils advocate and point out that our brains do in fact produce their own cannabis like chemicals.
Dope ---Dopamine

i can only speak for myself, but cannabis kills my motivation to do most anything but play music, hike, watch interesting/comical situations, and swim....

presently i am abstaining as much as possible in order to complete correspondence, go to school, and launch a career.

not because i am ambitious, but just so i can buy a small house next to a river, furnish a music studio, retire early, and alter my mind in any way i see fit

i know that if i continue to smoke up daily i will never fulfill any of my dreams.

i too have seen that heavy cannabis users are generally nice, laidback people...but nonetheless the same people who will confide that they wish they were capable of following through on any of their dreams.

of course, the odd musician or artist can manage to do so, but they are by far the exception 8)