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    1. #1
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      Utopian Societies

      So the definition of a utopia is an imagined place where everything is perfect.

      People like Karl Marx and other philosophers have created ideas of a utopian society where everyone is happy and content with everything.

      but isnt that society based off of the individual's ideas of perfect?? because my idea of a perfect society would be different from your version of a perfect society.

      you can either argue this statement or just list what your ideas are.

      WHAT IS YOUR PERFECT SOCIETY???

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      See Ian Banks' Culture Series.

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      used to be Guerilla
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      My perfect society is a world without money, without labor, without most laws, total freedom and a system of no money or barter or trade, everything would be extreme mass produced by machines and there would be no use for money.

      Thats the perfect world.
      I would rather die on my feet then to live on my knees.

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      i guess my perfect society would be very optimistic and developing. Everyone would go to school so that they can better benefit the world and technology and scientific research would be highly stressed. Eventually, we would build machines to house our bodies and put our minds into perpetual dream, or self build worlds where individuals could create their own utopian worlds.

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      Member Bonsay's Avatar
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      Basically any society where all strive for the common good. After that everything else falls into place.
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      Ever read "The Giver"?

      Yeah, aside from the baby and elderly killing and people choosing your job, I'd kind of like that utopia.

      EDIT: Oh yeah, and the not seeing color part.

      EDIT 2: Oh! And the limit of 2 children per family unit.

      EDIT 3: Oh, another thing; the people getting killed after a 3rd transgression
      Last edited by Snowy Egypt; 10-12-2008 at 05:37 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by guerilla View Post
      My perfect society is a world without money, without labor, without most laws, total freedom and a system of no money or barter or trade, everything would be extreme mass produced by machines and there would be no use for money.

      Thats the perfect world.
      See Ian Banks' Culture series. You would like it. People switch genders like it's no big deal

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      How about a society that wasn't one?

      Can you even imagine that, as a human?

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      Member Everlong's Avatar
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      The perfect society would be where no currency existed, nobody would need to pay for anything, because scientists had found a way to duplicate using minimal resources. All people would be treated equal. The only form of weapon that existed were in the psychic powers of everyone . There would be enough food to go around, and everybody would be happy..
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      even with no currency and all that wouldnt the people doing all the work eventually get fed up, or refuse to do anything unless they were treated at the top of the hierarchy?? because the common people would just be doing nothing but having fun, and in that sense, damage would be caused and the evil part of the mind would influence peoples actions. you would have to have some sort of enforcement in order to keep people from doing destructive things, which they undoubtedly would.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Azn Cru View Post
      even with no currency and all that wouldnt the people doing all the work eventually get fed up, or refuse to do anything unless they were treated at the top of the hierarchy?? because the common people would just be doing nothing but having fun, and in that sense, damage would be caused and the evil part of the mind would influence peoples actions. you would have to have some sort of enforcement in order to keep people from doing destructive things, which they undoubtedly would.
      What if there existed sufficient automation, land, and material and energy production that no one needed to ever work and anyone could do anything they wanted so long as it didn't interfere with others?

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      A world without evil.

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      Utopia: Latin. Prefix u-, meaning negative, anti-, no, word topia, meaning land, place. No Place.

      I say that not only is a Utopia improbable because of the effort needed for present generations to give people several generations in the future a perfect world, but it is impossible because not everyone agrees about everything. Some people would like a world where everything is nature (well, sort of nature. A giant park with trees and maybe a few mountains and some rainforest). Others would prefer a world completely controllable by technology, contained in buildings. The perfect world for a recluse would be one where they are the only human, and a sociopath would prefer a world where they are surrounded by other humans with no laws applicable to themselves. There is no way to have anywhere near a perfect world for everyone, the best we can possibly do is a pretty good world.

      As for my perfect world, i would love to live in a huge climate-controlled library with the latest gaming computers, absolutely free of dust and mildew, with dozens of cats that are perfectly litterbox trained and have automatic food dispensers and litterbox cleaners. And there wouldn't be any other people living there, but there would be guest rooms for visitors and internet with other people for online games and forums.
      And a kitchen. A really good kitchen. With actual ingredients that actually belong in the same dish.

      So, has anyone else read the original book? Utopia? I forget who wrote it, but it was thought-provoking, if dry.
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      The Anti-Member spockman's Avatar
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      Currencey.~ It wouldn't really exist. Commodity would, but only in the form of the barter system. And then only for things beyond neccessity. Food, shelter, all of this would be provided along with a days work. Extra things could be made or traded for with extra things that have been made. Ideally, no-one would take advantage of this by becoming tradesmen.

      Labor.~ I really don't think humans would be content with nothing to do, to accomplish. Productive labor is good for the mind and body. 'Sweet is the sleep after a long days work.' So everyone would work 12-8 hours a day, (it would alternate,) with at least one day a week off.

      Family.~ Family would be a priority and people would fulfill roles and responsibility, obligation to the family.

      Religion.~ It would be a free choice. I would prefer that people were Christian out of concern, but certainly not out of obligation.

      Career.~ Advancement and recognition are available for certain types of jobs, but not in the way of fiscal advancement. Again, it would be a manner of pride and a system of incentive.

      Medicine.~ Advanced to a point where the average lifespan is 100-120 years. Mental disorder has been eliminated. As far as dealing with population, ideally it remains about level.
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      Quote Originally Posted by spockman View Post
      Currencey.~ It wouldn't really exist. Commodity would, but only in the form of the barter system. And then only for things beyond neccessity. Food, shelter, all of this would be provided along with a days work. Extra things could be made or traded for with extra things that have been made. Ideally, no-one would take advantage of this by becoming tradesmen.

      Labor.~ I really don't think humans would be content with nothing to do, to accomplish. Productive labor is good for the mind and body. 'Sweet is the sleep after a long days work.' So everyone would work 12-8 hours a day, (it would alternate,) with at least one day a week off.

      Family.~ Family would be a priority and people would fulfill roles and responsibility, obligation to the family.

      Religion.~ It would be a free choice. I would prefer that people were Christian out of concern, but certainly not out of obligation.

      Career.~ Advancement and recognition are available for certain types of jobs, but not in the way of fiscal advancement. Again, it would be a manner of pride and a system of incentive.

      Medicine.~ Advanced to a point where the average lifespan is 100-120 years. Mental disorder has been eliminated. As far as dealing with population, ideally it remains about level.
      Jesus H Fuck, that sounds like a Stalinist hell. You can keep your "utopia" in your sick mind, mister.

    16. #16
      Chef vo Schwiiz Greedo's Avatar
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      Now on my blog @ http://weblog.xanga.com/GreedoCH
      Edited as of 19:30 Mountain Time Oct. 13


      My view on a pretty utopian society... Would I want to live here? Maybe.

      Everyone would get equal benefits, equal food credits, equal clothing credits, but also equal tax. So if you do make more in your job, you won't be punished for it. Nor will you suffer if you work in a blue-collar job. All life's necessities are now given out by the government for working, so the money you earn is mostly just spending/quality of life improvement money.

      The government would work WITH businesses to pay wages, but nothing else. But businesses are expected to behave in an ethical manner. Of course, businesses must exist or the world would stay at a stalemate. People would lose the drive to succede unless they are threatened, and that must not happen.

      The government would seek to educate the people on the many ways that religion has harmed the earth, although religion would not be persecuted.

      Everyone would be seen as equal, regardless of race, gender, religion, etc. Everyone is human.

      The education system would be revamped. Instead of set test dates, the students would be continuously tested through the use of camera monitoring systems in every classroom. This would also make sure the teacher is teaching correctly. Of course, this is not a censored evil nazi bolshevist dictatorship... So the teacher would have nothing to fear if he has fun with his job. Like one of my teachers would talk for 20 minutes before class about his personal life, but still got everything done. That would be ok.

      Anyways, each student would be watched until they graduate, and would take various personality tests. This would help the state computer create a list of career choices they may wish to pursue. These would be the highest-possible level the student can pursue. He may choose anything below that, too. So if it said he could be an engineer, but he always wanted to be a police officer, then he may choose that as long as there are not too many police officers already. Jobs are ranked according to pay and mental requirement.

      The death penalty would be instuted and given out more generously. Murderers, paedophiles, rapists... They would cease to exist.

      One new offence is to refuse to contribute to society at all. Of course, programs would be opened to get the people off the streets, but refusal would equal death, atleast at the start of the Utopian society. Later, they may be put in the Dungeons until they put in the will to work.

      Prisons would not be spending $100,000 a year per inmate anymore... That's rediculous. Instead, they would be renamed to Dungeons and would live up to that name. Each inmate would be given the basic requirements to live, saving as much cost as possible.

      Representative Democracy would be abolished, and Dicatorial Democracy would be put in place. That is, a dictator with absolute power would rule, but if he fails to rule in accordance to the benefits of the people, it is obviously an offence punishable by death. This includes if he changes that law or creates laws allowing him to do whatever he wants without punishment.


      Just my thoughts for now... Had to write them down somehow.

      Also, "He" can obviously be substituted for "She" in all the above.
      Last edited by Greedo; 10-14-2008 at 02:29 AM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Greedo View Post
      Well, I have to think about it a bit in detail and write down my ideas. But it would be quite Socialist, although with some rather conservative ideals, such as the death penalty which would be given out very generously. Especially to those that refuse to work or do anything productive to society...

      The rest? Everyone would get equal benefits, equal food credits, equal clothing credits, but also equal tax. So if you do make more in your job, you won't be punished for it. All life's necessities are now given out by the government for working, so the money you earn (a lot less than you earn now since you dont need to buy those) is mostly just spending/quality of life improvement money.

      The government would seek to educate the people on the many ways that religion has harmed the earth, although religion would not be persecuted.

      Everyone would be seen as equal.

      And it would be a benevolent dictatorship.
      People would be put to death if they didn't work in a state mandated job? Guys, this is supposed to be utopia, not the fucking USSR.

    18. #18
      Chef vo Schwiiz Greedo's Avatar
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      Did I say the jobs are state mandated? Tell me where I said that. Honestly, I hate it when neo-fascists generalize what I say. See? I can make up things about you too.

      Anyways... The state would OFFER you jobs, but you would never be obliged to accept them.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Greedo View Post
      Anyways... The state would OFFER you jobs, but you would never be obliged to accept them.
      Oh really? How about this:

      Quote Originally Posted by Greedo View Post
      such as the death penalty which would be given out very generously. Especially to those that refuse to work or do anything productive to society...
      So you're not obliged to work, but if you don't you happen to be put to death? Umm...

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      Chef vo Schwiiz Greedo's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by drewmandan View Post
      Oh really? How about this:



      So you're not obliged to work, but if you don't you happen to be put to death? Umm...
      Stop changing what you said. You said I said the government mandates jobs. No I didnt. You are obliged to work. How you work? Up to you. Why wouldnt you work anyways unless you're a lazy abuser of society?
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      The Anti-Member spockman's Avatar
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      In mine if you don't work, you get none of the commodities or food resources. So you will die that way. If you don't want an organized job, that's fine. Live off the land of become self-sufficient somehow. But you won't be given anything from a collective thus leechign off of them.

      What's Stalinistic about mine, by the way? Not being defensive, just confused.
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      One where everyone is loved.

      One where if you are gay, bi, black, white, asian, mexican, FREAKIN' purple..everyone will still love you.

      A peacefull one, where we all get along.

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      Member Bonsay's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by drewmandan View Post
      So you're not obliged to work, but if you don't you happen to be put to death? Umm...
      Sounds like some religious beliefs.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Greedo View Post
      Stop changing what you said. You said I said the government mandates jobs. No I didnt. You are obliged to work. How you work? Up to you. Why wouldnt you work anyways unless you're a lazy abuser of society?
      Ok, so suppose someone chooses to be an artist. Does the government now require that the person put out a certain number of "artistically meaningful" pieces per year, or they're put to death?

    25. #25
      Chef vo Schwiiz Greedo's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by drewmandan View Post
      Ok, so suppose someone chooses to be an artist. Does the government now require that the person put out a certain number of "artistically meaningful" pieces per year, or they're put to death?
      If they can prove they've been putting in an effort to make art they won't be... But if they just say they're an "artist" and then do nothing waiting for "artistic inspiration" they will be asked to take another job... Death is the final judgement, not the initial.
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