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    Thread: Animal lovers please read.

    1. #1
      Member defygravity's Avatar
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      Animal lovers please read.

      So basically,
      a couple of months ago my brother's dog was in our backyard, leashed onto a tree. My next door neighbor(who is a child) decided it would be fun to go into our yard and antagonize him, and he ended up biting her. We didn't know anything about this, until a cop showed up at my house that night. Apparently my neighbor needed stitches and she called the cops. So my mom had to go to court. She got fined, and if the dog(whose name by the way is Micki!) bites anybody else, my mom goes to jail for a year.

      He's a wonderful dog, but he's not good with kids(besides my brother) and so my mom plans to take him to the humane society, because he's tried biting another kid(random kids come into my yard ALL THE TIME). apparently the humane society told my mom that if we take him there, since he's bitten someone, he will immediately be put down. This just breakes my heart, so I'm looking for other options.

      I'm going to be moving out soon, so I would take him, but I'm not home enough, to give him the attention and care he needs. I think he'd be perfect in a home with no children or perhaps a pet for an eldery person. He's very sweet and gentle naturally. He loves me, and constantly just wants to lay by me and be pet.

      I don't have any friends/family that can take him, and I just can't have him put down. It's completely unfair.

      I just don't know what to do. Any suggestions/advice, anything would be wonderful.

      (on a positive note; I gave my kitty catnip for the first time today! she loved it!)
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    2. #2
      Haha. Hehe. Mes Tarrant's Avatar
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      You could put an ad somewhere, maybe craigslist, or the local newspaper, and advertise the dog.

      I don't get how your mom got fined. That kid was trespassing...!

      Also, do you have "beware of dog" signs? Because if you put a TON of them all over the place, there's no way you could get in trouble for someone trespassing into YOUR yard and antagonizing YOUR dog.

      Otherwise, just keep him indoors and don't let him out without supervision.

      Btw how would the humane society know if he's bitten someone unless you specifically tell them? Usually they do an aggression test with dogs... so if you keep your mouth shut and the dog passes the test, all is good.

    3. #3
      Antagonist Invader's Avatar
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      ..Can you not counter sue for trespassing on your property? It doesn't matter that it's a child. The legal guardians are responsible and they can be sued for it. If they hadn't sued in the first place and hadn't harassed your dog there'd be no need for it, but since they're using the court in this way against you, you ought to try. The child was at fault. I do not understand that you can be sued for someone else's idiot mistake, but hey, welcome to the American justice system.

      It would be sad to see you lose your dog for this, but if you wish to keep him I'd suggest was Mes has already: Beware of dog signs, and no trespassing signs for good measure.

    4. #4
      Exactl- wait what?
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      The justice system pisses me off so much sometimes.
      Like that guy in the U.K who nearly got like 20 years in prison for beating the shit out of an intruder after they took his family hostage.

      "I feel my heart glow
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    5. #5
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      You should counter-sue. The dog was leashed on your property and the neighbour was trespassing. You would win the case very easily. Dogs can not be blames for protecting their house and yard by any law.

    6. #6
      Reggie
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      I am absolutely amazed at this. How stupid is america. It gets me down sometimes... THE KID WAS ANNOYING THE DOG, SO THE DOG BIT HIM. FUCKING HELl!!!!!
      Daydreamer14 and Mancon123 like this.

    7. #7
      A Natural The Invisible Man's Avatar
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      This is America, you can sue that little jerk's parents all you like since he trespassed. Also, put up some signs regarding the dog. That will limit your liability, and with a decent lawyer you could save the dog's life.

      Hell, if you are bold enough you could get P.E.T.A. to help you out.


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      "LIQUID!" Sesquipedalian's Avatar
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      I agree with the trespassing. Why do people sue for small things like this in the first place? The kid was acting like an idiot, and was bit. The dog had no other way to protect itself, being held in a small area. I'm surprised the fine was made in the first place.

      Courts=stock market for debaters nowadays.

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    9. #9
      Member nina's Avatar
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      First of all, the OP never actually said the neighbor sued them. Only that they called the cops. I assume most parents are going to call the cops when their child comes home bleeding and needs stitches (they probably called 911). Also it's possible that due to the fact that the child needed stitches, they HAD to report the incident to the police when they took the child into the emergency room. Going to court and getting fined sounds like normal follow up to something like this...I don't think anyone actually got sued.

      Secondly, considering that the OP's mother would prefer to take the dog to the Humane Society, where it would be put down, rather than invest the time and money to properly train it...I think it is safe to assume that "counter suing" is probably not an option.

      Thirdly, since no one here knows the exact laws regarding dog liability in the OP's state, what breed of dog it is, how they knew the child was taunting the dog, and various other important details of the story...it's probably no one's business to pass judgment about the way it was handled by the court.

      Lastly, all the OP is actually asking...is what options are there for dealing with the dog now. The mother wants to take it to the Humane Society, where it will be put down. Considering the fact that they euthanize aggressive dogs, I think it's safe to assume that they test the dogs for aggressiveness. In fact, I know they do. If you cannot take a food bowl away from a dog while it is eating without the dog snapping or even growling (I think), then it is an aggressive dog. They do several different sorts of tests. So just not telling them that your dog is aggressive won't do much good. Also you would probably get into a lot of trouble if you sign papers stating that the dog is not aggressive, and then it goes and bites someone. Considering this dog has tried to bite people before, I really doubt he has a chance.

      It is extremely unfortunate, but you do not have many options with an aggressive dog. You are going to have a hell of a time finding it a home, as no one wants a dog that is known to bite children. Pretty much every animal shelter will either not accept it, or euthanize it. There MIGHT be shelters for rehabilitating aggressive dogs...I honestly don't know. Somehow I doubt this, considering the liability involved.

      I'm not saying that there is no hope for the poor dog. Just that, I don't think you are going to have many options. But I really hope you can find someone who will take it in and give it the proper attention that it deserves. Also research animal shelters in your area, call around, try to find out if there IS any sort of alternative.

      If your mom isn't completely set on taking it and having it put down...then you might be able to convince her to...I dunno...build a fence or something to keep the children out of the yard. Also I think if you make sure the neighbors are aware of the dangerous dog, and inform them of the threat, and tell them to keep their children away, this will limit your liability. But, most states have a "one-bite" dog rule. They get off the first time. Second time, they get put down.

      If all else fails...call Cesar Milan. Beg and plead.

      Oh...and good luck. And I'm sorry about your dog troubles. I would be happy to take in an aggressive dog and train it if I had the time and resources. You might find some kind soul out there on Craigslist who actually can! Definitely try!

      edit: Also has he been declared a Dangerous Animal by the State of MN?

    10. #10
      Member nina's Avatar
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      Sorry double post, but I was searching for dog shelters in MN, which is where I assume you live according to your profile. I found this shelter that you should definitely check out:

      http://www.homewardboundrescue.com/faq.html

      WHAT DOES "NO-KILL" MEAN?
      We take pride in the fact that we are a no-kill rescue and placement program that does not euthanize our animals if they are not adopted within a certain length of time. We give the animals in our rescue every attempt at adoption possible and understand that for whatever reason, sometimes it takes a dog months to find their forever home. Sadly, 'no-kill' does not mean that we never eutahnize an animal since the reality is that not every animal that comes to us can be adopted. The decision to euthanize an animal and is not made lightly. Each case varies but if a dog is terminally ill and suffering, exhibits repeated aggression towards people, has shown severe and unreasonable aggression toward other dogs, or severe behavior problems which makes him/her unadoptable, we do have to euthanize. The decision to euthanize is gut-wrenching and we try very hard to do so as little as possible. Before making the decision to euthanize an animal that shows aggressive tendencies, we work very hard with the dog and try to correct the behavior. Many times, we are able to do this, oftentimes just using different dog training methods. We believe that many, many dogs show aggressive tendencies when their owners don't bother train them in the first place or never told the dog 'no.' Cheryl Adams, the director of Homeward Bound, has turned literally hundreds of dogs showing potentially aggressive tendencies into terrific, happy, and obedient family pets with tough love and firm boundaries. Sometimes no-kill rescues are criticized for only taking in the "cream of the crop" so to speak, meaning that only the perfect, easy adoptable dogs are allowed into the program. Just take a look at our special needs section and the number of heartworm positive dogs we take in and you'll see that we take in many dogs that aren't perfect or highly adoptable! Oftentimes it takes these dogs months to find homes, but it is always worth it.
      So basically, unlike the Humane Society, they won't out right euthanize it. They will try to train it first! I haven't seen many shelters like this, so you should really look into taking the dog there.

    11. #11
      Member defygravity's Avatar
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      Thank you so much everyone!

      I don't believe there was in fact sueing involved, and either way my mother wouldn't be interested in counter-sueing.

      Thanks so much Aquanina, I will definately be giving them a call.

      Yes he has been declared a dangerous animal, which really upsets me as he is a wonderful dog.

      When the cop came to my house that night, he needed a picture of him, so I held him while he took the picture, and he starting to lick my face...continuously. Even the cop said he seemed like a very nice dog.

      I just hope that no matter what happens, he can find a nice happy home.

      Thank you all.

      also, who is Cesar Milan?
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    12. #12
      Consciousness in the Void Universal Mind's Avatar
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      Who told you that your mother could go to jail for a year if some stupid shit kid trespasses onto your property, screws with your dog, and gets bitten as a result? Are you sure about that? If it's true, then Minnesota needs much better legislators. Did Al Franken propose that law? It's insane. You should call some lawyers and get to the bottom of it. In Mississippi, if that happened, the cop would go to the mother's house and tell her to keep her numb nut kid out of stranger's yards and not to let him screw with people's dogs. If the mother whined at the cop about how her son got bitten, the cop's response would be something like, "Uh, duh, YEAH!!! What the Hell else could have happened? "

      If you find out with certainty that the law you mentioned is for real, call Bill O'Reilly about it. He loves to go off about stuff like that.
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    13. #13
      Member defygravity's Avatar
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      It does really upset me. It's the fact that he was leashed up on MY property. The other thing is the kid who got bit...her whole family hates my family. Thinks were satan worshipers, and some other crap. Just because we bring some life to this dull neighboorhood. I still don't know what she was doing in my yard.

      Oh, and might I add her dog, is always on my deck, and last summer actually bit my brother on MY property.

      oh, and the judge said that if he bites another person, she goes to jail for a year and he gets put down. I did not like that judge at all..
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    14. #14
      Member defygravity's Avatar
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      I've been looking at the shelter aquanina recommended....and the reality that there are so many dogs needing homes and the chances of him getting adopted are so slim.

      My mom's already pretty dead set on getting rid of him, but I really am interested in training him, and getting his little aggression problems settled. He's hardly ever aggressive- i've never seen it, but other people have told me he's tried biting kids.

      I don't have the money for a professional trainer...but if any of you have experience in training dogs, I'd appreciate tips!
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    15. #15
      Member nina's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by defygravity View Post
      I've been looking at the shelter aquanina recommended....and the reality that there are so many dogs needing homes and the chances of him getting adopted are so slim.

      My mom's already pretty dead set on getting rid of him, but I really am interested in training him, and getting his little aggression problems settled. He's hardly ever aggressive- i've never seen it, but other people have told me he's tried biting kids.

      I don't have the money for a professional trainer...but if any of you have experience in training dogs, I'd appreciate tips!
      Well the biggest problem is, that since he has been declared a Dangerous Animal by the State, he is going to be a pretty big liability...and even if you keep him you're going to have to follow some really strict rules.

      Dangerous Animal Declarations

      Under Minnesota State Statute and Minneapolis City Ordinance, domestic animals that have bitten or demonstrated aggression must be investigated to determine if that animal is a threat to the public’s safety and should be declared ‘dangerous.’ Minneapolis Animal Care & Control (MACC) conducts these investigations and makes dangerous animal declarations. Declarations are determined based on the severity of the incident, including serious bites and unprovoked aggressive behavior.
      There are three types of dangerous animal declarations:
      • Potentially Dangerous Animal
      • Dangerous Animal
      • Destruct Order
      Any animal that bites a person or domestic animal and is subject to dangerous animal proceedings may be impounded and kenneled at the MACC shelter for the duration of the quarantine and until compliance is met. The owner is responsible for paying all fees incurred during quarantine at the shelter.
      Declared animals must comply with certain requirements to safeguard against future attacks or aggression. MACC conducts biannual compliance checks on all dangerous animals in Minneapolis to ensure these requirements are met.
      Owners of potentially dangerous animals must meet the following requirements:
      • The animal must be muzzled and on a three-foot leash controlled by an adult any time the dog is not inside a dwelling or in an approved kennel.
      • The animal must be micro chipped.
      • The animal must be registered with MACC annually and must have an annual ‘dangerous animal’ city license.
      • The animal must be kept in a secure area when persons other than family members are present inside the home.
      • If kenneled outside, the animal must be in an approved kennel that meets the specific requirements outlined in city ordinance.
      • Other requirements as specified by city ordinance.
      In addition to the requirements for potentially dangerous animals, owners of dangerous animals must also meet the following requirements:
      • The animal must be sterilized.
      • The owners of the animal must have a current insurance bond in the amount of at least three hundred thousand dollars ($300,000.00) to cover any personal injuries inflicted by the animal.
      • A clearly visible sign indicating that a "dangerous animal" is on the premises must be posted in the front and rear of the property
      Destruct orders are issued for the most serious incidents and for noncompliance with dangerous animal requirements.
      The Dangerous Animal ordinance in the Municipal Code can be found at Title 4, Chapter 64.110.
      I mean, microchips and insurance in the amount of $300,000? Damn.

    16. #16
      Member defygravity's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Aquanina View Post
      Well the biggest problem is, that since he has been declared a Dangerous Animal by the State, he is going to be a pretty big liability...and even if you keep him you're going to have to follow some really strict rules.

      I mean, microchips and insurance in the amount of $300,000? Damn.

      WOW. I'm so unbelievably frustrated. He was provoked, so I don't understand how he can be deemed a dangerous dog legally then? I mean, from what I've heard he was provoked. I'm not completely sure about that, but all signs point to that. Besides, he was on a leash, she had to go near enough to him, on my property, intentionally, to get bitten.

      He's not even my dog, but I just could be so hurt, if he'd have to be put down because of this bullshit. It's so much trouble to go through,
      he's not a dangerous animal! not long ago, he would run around my neighboorhood free with me! (like many animals around here!) he stays right by my side, and yeah he barks at people, but what dog doesn't. We had no problems with him. But my mom found out and made me keep him on a leash, because of the leash law.

      I'm sorry, I'm continously, going off on random little rants. I just don't know what to do, because it's like every option, there's no winning.
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    17. #17
      Member nina's Avatar
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      I know. I'm really sorry. I can only imagine how frustrating this must be for you. *You* know that he's a good dog. It's so unfair. But according to the law, it doesn't matter that she was trespassing, if there were no clear signs warning of a dangerous animal on the property. Also in some states it is illegal to tie up a dog anywhere, they consider it cruel and inhumane. Well I think there at least needs to be a dog house of certain size, and adequate food and water, if it is tied up on your property.

      Cesar Milan is The Dog Whisperer...he does this show where he will come into a home where the dog is a problem and fix it. I've seen him handle aggressive dog cases before where the only other alternative was to have the dog put down. And he always saves the dogs, it's a great show. You can find lots of great info on his website too: http://www.cesarsway.com

      For example:

      How do you determine when nothing else can be done to alter a dog's behavior, and the dog should be euthanized? I've been working with an 18 month old border collie for one year, and we are about to give up on him. He is afraid of many things, aggressive, and also tries to be dominant. I love him but I can't trust him, and he's becoming a danger to other dogs, people (especially children), and even me. And how do you resolve the guilt for euthanizing such a dog?

      Brenda M.
      Grinnell, IA

      Obviously, when you love someone, this is never a step we want to take. Personally, I believe the only reason to euthanize a dog is if he or she is very sick and no amount of effort or money is going to cure him or her, and they're just going to be in pain until they pass away naturally. Your veterinarian is the one who can guide you at times like these and will tell you if it is the humane thing to do.

      For behavioral problems, I believe there is always hope. In my experience, very few dogs have behavior issues with physiological causes. That is definitely something to rule out first, but for the most part, the dog can work through their problem behaviors with the right, knowledgeable pack leader. I believe that most of the dogs that are put down for behavior issues are simply misunderstood.

      I wish that I was able to personally help every single dog who is in this situation, but unfortunately, there are just too many dogs in need of help. The good news is that I'm not the only one who can help. You can seek the assistance of a local dog behaviorist or trainer. The HYPERLINK "http://www.cesarsway.com/tips/mostpopular/resources" resources page on the site provides some suggestions for finding the right person. Also, shelters and rescues in the area may be able to take him in or help place him in a new home with people who have more experience with these types of issues.

      I know it's hard right now because of the economy. Some shelters and rescues are unable to take in new dogs. They're receiving more and more animals from families who cannot afford to care for them, and at the same time, they are receiving fewer donations because people are unable to give as much. But if you can find the right professional to work with you or a knowledgeable family who is willing to take him in, this dog can be saved.

      I encourage you to pray whatever religion or spiritual beliefs you have. Miracles can happen! If you do ultimately end up euthanizing your dog, my heart goes out to you. But instead of feeling guilty, I believe compassion and sadness are healthier ways of feeling. Know that you did all you could to give your dog a second chance and that you did what you felt was safe.

      Stay calm and assertive,
      Cesar Millan

    18. #18
      Member defygravity's Avatar
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      We only leash him up outside after walks and such. He always has water and food, and most of the time someone playing with him. (myself or my brother) He's a very small dog, and the leash extends a couple yards I think...and still stays in our yard.

      I've never heard of him. I'll definately have to check it out.

      Thanks for all your help, whatever happens, will be for the best, I suppose.
      Dream Resolutions for 2010

      ( ) Write all Dreams in a dream journal
      ( ) Develop an effective reality check
      ( ) Lucid Dream at least 5 times a week
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    19. #19
      Member nina's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by defygravity View Post
      We only leash him up outside after walks and such. He always has water and food, and most of the time someone playing with him. (myself or my brother) He's a very small dog, and the leash extends a couple yards I think...and still stays in our yard.

      I've never heard of him. I'll definately have to check it out.

      Thanks for all your help, whatever happens, will be for the best, I suppose.
      Awh! He's a wittle guy? What kind of dog is it? How old?

    20. #20
      Member defygravity's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Aquanina View Post
      Awh! He's a wittle guy? What kind of dog is it? How old?
      yeahh! He's a dachshund/terrier mix. He's almost 2 years old!
      Last edited by defygravity; 04-15-2010 at 04:04 AM.
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    21. #21
      Member nina's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by defygravity View Post
      yeahh! He's a dachshund/terrier mix. He's almost 2 years old!
      Awh! You know what? It might not be impossible to find someone to adopt him. He's a cute little dog and he's young. I don't know why I was assuming you probably had a big dog or a "dangerous breed", probably because the court ruling seemed a little harsh...but I guess that's standard procedure. I think people would be more likely to rescue a small dog and rehabilitate it than a large dog. A big dog that bites is just intimidating, for anyone. *I* would take your dog if I could honestly. Good luck, and let us know what happens.

    22. #22
      Haha. Hehe. Mes Tarrant's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Aquanina View Post
      Awh! You know what? It might not be impossible to find someone to adopt him. He's a cute little dog and he's young. I don't know why I was assuming you probably had a big dog or a "dangerous breed", probably because the court ruling seemed a little harsh...but I guess that's standard procedure. I think people would be more likely to rescue a small dog and rehabilitate it than a large dog. A big dog that bites is just intimidating, for anyone. *I* would take your dog if I could honestly. Good luck, and let us know what happens.
      I agree with this. Your dog would probably have a much greater chance at getting adopted than others at the shelter...

    23. #23
      A Natural The Invisible Man's Avatar
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      Well if you ever go to a court, bring the little cutie in. No judge could declare a dog like that to be dangerous.


      Can you see me now?

    24. #24
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      I think it's fucking sick how if a dog bites a human, they have to be killed. Usually, the human is provoking the dog to bite them.

    25. #25
      Lurpin' Loonybin Resident's Avatar
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      I remember being 5 years old wandering into my neighbors property, being the stupid naive kid I was, while their dog was sleeping I rested my head against her and startled her and she bit me in my face, had to get stitches and still got a scar. I wasn't mad at the dog and neither was my family, I actually got grounded by my parents for going into their property without asking which i'm glad about because I wouldn't want a dog put to sleep because of my dumbass and i love dogs. Anyway sorry about your situation, hope things work out. Those neighbor kids are the ones who need some discipline, maybe even the good old belt, not your dog.
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