Thread: EXTREME Lucid Experiments

im tellling you, creating a new color is impossible. i dont know how naiya did it "thousands of times" i wanna know what colors she invented

Spitfire, colors don't exist in the first place. We only see color because our brains translate what our physical senses tell us. Colors are a perception. They are subjective. Same with sound---what exists is the frequency/vibration. The sound itself does not exist until it is actually perceived and translated into a sound by the mind.

When you aren't limited by your physical senses--your eyes--your mind is capable of "seeing" more than is possible in your physical body, hence things like seeing in all directions at once.

And again, hummingbirds see more colors than we do, for example. You wouldn't be surprised if a hound could smell more scents. Human beings are so arrogant, thinking we have the best equipment! But anyway, that in itself proves that there are more colors than the ones our human eyes can perceive.

So basically, that means your argument can only work if you are arguing that it is impossible to dream something you have never seen or experienced previously in some form or another, right? But the wonderful thing about the imagination is just that--it can actually create completely new ideas. And if you don't think that's possible, then I sort of feel sorry for you.

Also, just because you can't do it, doesn't mean it's impossible. Although most dreams (especially for a non-LDer) are pretty much just our mind imitating the normal things it is used to. In lucid dreams and OBEs, things can become much more than simply a mixture of our thoughts and previous experiences.

Nothing is impossible within your own mind and imagination.

Naiya, I don't think you actually imagined or dreamt new colors. You probably felt like you did, but didn't actually. Until we have the capability to perceive energy outside the visual spectrum, there is no way to actually imagine it like you would imagine the color red or blue.

Originally Posted by schematics

Naiya, I don't think you actually imagined or dreamt new colors. You probably felt like you did, but didn't actually. Until we have the capability to perceive energy outside the visual spectrum, there is no way to actually imagine it like you would imagine the color red or blue.

You're still thinking that dreams are perceived by our physical eyes. They aren't. They're perceived by our minds. So again, your argument is just that you don't think anyone can imagine something they've never seen before. Which imo, is more of a philosophical question that has no correct answer.

Ok, sorry to break up the party on colors, but you can't imagine new colors, you can percieve previously imperceptible sprectra, but so far as I know EM only really goes from radio to gama. There are animals that cans see from infrared to ultraviolet, but that is the full range perceptible by any known organic being. It takes some prety imaginative science to see all of the EM Spectra, and even then it's only rationalized into our percievable spectrum. There, no such thing as new colors, just ones you haven't seen.

Originally Posted by Naiya

You're still thinking that dreams are perceived by our physical eyes. They aren't. They're perceived by our minds. So again, your argument is just that you don't think anyone can imagine something they've never seen before. Which imo, is more of a philosophical question that has no correct answer.

course I know dreams aren't created through stimuli taken in through our eyes, as our eyes are closed when we sleep . The stimuli comes from internal input, I know that (not the mind though, the mind is more of an abstract thing, it's probably better to say that dreams are combination from internal input in the brain). And, I know we can imagine things we haven't seen before, hell right now I'm imagining a giant tree where the roots are made of human arms and the leaves are long spiky things. But even that is a combination of things that already exist. Forms and objects that exist in our perception of the universe. We can't actually imagine or dream up new colors (and remember, a new color means just that you're perceving out side the visual spectrum, so into UV, x-ray or whatever) because we don't have the capabilities to perceive them. I just don't know how to explain this any better. You can "feel" like you see them, just like when you wake up from a dream and "felt" like you heard the most beautiful music in the world but can't quite remember what it sounded like....

Originally Posted by schematics

course I know dreams aren't created through stimuli taken in through our eyes, as our eyes are closed when we sleep . The stimuli comes from internal input, I know that (not the mind though, the mind is more of an abstract thing, it's probably better to say that dreams are combination from internal input in the brain).

Yep, you are right...the mind is abstract. Therefore your whole argument kind of makes no sense because you're trying to put physical boundaries on something abstract and boundless. Nothing is unimaginable within the imagination.

no that's the thing, I'm saying the mind fools you into thinking you perceived the imperceivable. but w/e. who knows, I could be wrong for all I know.

Originally Posted by spitfire riggz

im tellling you, creating a new color is impossible. i dont know how naiya did it "thousands of times" i wanna know what colors she invented

Dude! We know that's what you're telling us. It's the fourth time you say that. We get it. You're in a cell that you've created for yourself; we, on the other hand, are either gullible fools or liars. But these opinions don't really add much to the thread. And no one can describe the colors to you. If you're not even open to the possibility that seeing/experiencing new colors is possible, why bother asking someone to describe the ones he or she has seen?

Whatever... It's just that sometimes you just have to go with the flow, you know. Stab logic in the back, swallow your pride and try to create a new color in your next LD. I think that would be the best thing to do because this discussion, while interesting and even rewarding at times, won't uncover the truth. It can inspire, though. So why not let yourself be inspired? Is it the fear of appearing foolish, that if you believe in something that doesn't have the stilt of science under it, you'll fall flat to the ground? Because these fears are very common. I'm a living example, actually. I'm often afraid of leaving a bad or a silly impression to someone. I tend to choose my words very carefully, I almost triple check my posts etc. But it's very grueling, you know. Sometimes you have to do something that's not normal, take a leap of faith, even if it means falling into mud, because that's how we learn and develop.

Also, Naiya - a refreshing post I was just about to write that this topic is starving for female attention. Not that I want to make some sort of a "manly VS womanly" thing out of all this.

But yeah, it's a question of perception. I mean - if you look at the world through orange sunglasses, for example, is the world really orange? No. It only seems to be. So take the glasses off. There... Everything is colorful again, the world isn't shades of orange any longer. So is the world really colorful? No. Once again - it only seems to be. Why? Because light passes through space and time, so to speak, it bounces off things, passes through different layers of air and different layers of our eyes (through the cornea, through the iris etc.). And finally our brain interprets all this and that becomes our perception of "how things really are". And well... in a sense, that's how they really are, at least for you or for me or for Naiya... But it doesn't really end there, now does it? You have got to ask: is my perception the only possible one? Can I alter my own perception of things? Can I alter how my brain translates the environment surrounding me? Can I learn or experience new ways of translating things? Etc.

I mean - why even think that some bird, for example, can't see colors that would be new for us? Even if you say that there are these primary building blocks which always remain the same, that there are only some certain wavelengths out there. So what!? To "compensate" this, there are uncountable different interpretations of these wavelengths out there. If you so badly want to believe that even in your dreams you can't choose between different interpretations, then do so, no one can stop you, but you'll probably miss out on much.

The fabric of our Universe is very versatile. Experiment a little.