Thread: The most challenging question

define honesty

It would be impossible to be honest with ones' self because that would require full understanding and mastery of the subconscious and conscious forces behind the wheel of our minds at any given moment in time. To have that much control and understanding of ones' self is extremely difficult for anyone to be able to say they've reached. If not, a concept altogether foreign and seemingly impossible for the average individual to even begin to grasp. Honesty and Truth, go hand in hand.

Sometimes, things are better answered with a question; How could one be true or honest to ones' self or others, without full control and understanding of ones' self from the get go?

Everything i say is a lye.

i must honestly say i am not honest sometimes.........so does that make me honest because i admit i am not honest?........ but i acknowledge i am not honest so i guess im not........however that humbleness and acknowledgment of my flaws does make me honest......uuuhh...headache..why do I bother thinking?

I am honest whenever and wherever truth has value. If it doesn't, then there's no meaning to opening your shelter and letting your fragile cat off in the rain. (I suck at analogies)

Originally Posted by SolSkye

It would be impossible to be honest with ones' self because that would require full understanding and mastery of the subconscious and conscious forces behind the wheel of our minds at any given moment in time. To have that much control and understanding of ones' self is extremely difficult for anyone to be able to say they've reached. If not, a concept altogether foreign and seemingly impossible for the average individual to even begin to grasp. Honesty and Truth, go hand in hand.

Sometimes, things are better answered with a question; How could one be true or honest to ones' self or others, without full control and understanding of ones' self from the get go?

That's actually a very good answer.

Personally, I try to be as honest as possible (most of the time), but to say that I'm "always" honest is to be naive to the true nature of subjectivity and personal bias, which I'm not.

Why thank you!

To be honest to oneself is hardest of all. I deceive myself first, playing out a fantasy to protect myself from my flaws. I deceive others to perpetuate my own personal fantasy. It's ubiquitous and instinctual.

I keep myself honest by saying very little at a time.

Originally Posted by Arrow

are you honest ?

No

Originally Posted by SolSkye

It would be impossible to be honest with ones' self because that would require full understanding and mastery of the subconscious and conscious forces behind the wheel of our minds at any given moment in time. To have that much control and understanding of ones' self is extremely difficult for anyone to be able to say they've reached. If not, a concept altogether foreign and seemingly impossible for the average individual to even begin to grasp. Honesty and Truth, go hand in hand.

Sometimes, things are better answered with a question; How could one be true or honest to ones' self or others, without full control and understanding of ones' self from the get go?

To utter a falsehood with the honest belief that it is true is not a lie. To be wrong is not a lie. I don't see how honesty requires full knowledge or any real knowledge at all for that matter. Honesty has little to do with truth, and more to do with belief.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

That's actually a very good answer.

Personally, I try to be as honest as possible (most of the time), but to say that I'm "always" honest is to be naive to the true nature of subjectivity and personal bias, which I'm not.

I agree with that. I've developed a natural tendency to be honest. When I was younger, I used to lie all the time about small things (especially overusing the excuse, "I forgot."), but over the years I've come to learn that in every situation, the truth is overall more beneficial than a lie. Granted, that statement is subject to the constraints of the situation, but if everyone was honest, the world would not be in the place it is today.

I'll keep the rhetoric to myself for now.

And Xaqaria, I think that SolSkye is talking not about whether or not the information we know is correct, but if we can truly be in full agreement within ourselves. In situations, you may know that something is a lie, but at the same time you want it to be true so badly that you're willing to think and and believe and state otherwise. You're right in saying that ignorance is not the same as lying, but when you're dealing with the self, it becomes more difficult to establish what may simply be "truth" and "untruth."

Correct me if I'm wrong...

well, since I am being asked if I am honest or not, I should see what I do more of. Am I honest or dishonest most of the time? Well, for the mere fact I don't have much to hide besides a bit of ganja I'd say I'm honest more than I am dishonest. But I wouldn't say that makes me an honest person...The truest form of honesty is being honest with yourself. Even if that means being your own toughest critic. Being honest with yourself is a sign of hightened awareness.

And Solsky, I think I mostly agree with what you said, but it isn't as hard as you would think. Analyse your desires wants and actions as you go about your day. Ask youself why you want things, why you are doing things etc...soon your realise that your ego is controlling you. Meditation and Psychedellics are probably the best ways to realize these things.

"Over thinking over analysing, separate the body from the mind." - Tool

honest enough to lie when i know the question is a catch-22... and still honest enough to point that fact out. hokay. next question.

Originally Posted by Arrow

The philosophy of honesty has remained and perhaps will remain as mere philosophy. Am no exception so, the question is, are you honest ?

1:define honesty

2:This is so not the most challenging question.

I'm partly honest, pretty often. Uncensored honesty is difficult, yet I hold it as a sort of ideal and wish it were possible for people to be honest with each other without pissing each other off. The elaborate bullshit games we play are ridiculous.

No, i am not honest.

Skye got it right. The idea is to never knowingly lie to oneself; or to put it better: to look for areas where you may be doing so, and discover them.

As far as others are concerned, I believe in the "say what you need to say, not what you should say" policy; stopping short at needless cruelty of course. Deception has little value for knowledge, and keeps our world stupid.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

1:define honesty

2:This is so not the most challenging question.

Yes, defineing honesty would be a must.

"Looking" at honesty, such can be seen as twofold.


1) There is honesty that is applicable to conceptual thought.

2) Then there is honesty applicable simply to "what is" .



The first is purely relative and could be defined many diiverse ways.

The second is beyond concepts. Such deals with everything that is , beyond concepts, beyond labels, beyond thought, even beyond any idea of a distinct physical "self". In this case one could not even ask the question " are you honest" as there is no real "you" distinct from anything/anyone else to apply the question to. In this case "honesty" would seem self arising. It is what is, as it is, as it arises in the moment.
As Solskye said, "honesty and truth go hand in hand" , they are one in the same. As such in relation to "what is", our definitions and use of the words in a descriptive sense no longer apply. Honesty and truth are hence a free standing essence themselves, and a quite simplistic essence at that.

There is no more basic truth or honesty than simply what is...

I can't honestly answer no.

*raises hand very high and waves it all around*
So no.

Exception: I am very honest after consumption of large volumes of wine.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

It would be impossible to be honest with ones' self because that would require full understanding and mastery of the subconscious and conscious forces behind the wheel of our minds at any given moment in time. To have that much control and understanding of ones' self is extremely difficult for anyone to be able to say they've reached. If not, a concept altogether foreign and seemingly impossible for the average individual to even begin to grasp. Honesty and Truth, go hand in hand.

Sometimes, things are better answered with a question; How could one be true or honest to ones' self or others, without full control and understanding of ones' self from the get go?

You can say we do not understand, which we do not, but this is -we don't know! So how can we be accountable for our dishonesty, honesty or any other precept of our conscience?

Couldn't you say the same for O'nus' above post, and what it is offering?
"There's a fine line between genius and insanity."
Comparing Schizophrenia with that of insanity only for that reason. Comprehension.
Much like pleading insanity. Is one accountable for his or her actions if they do not realize what honest is.

Recently I have made the decision to cast any moral binding I have with honesty down as honesty has been getting me in a lot of trouble recently. From now on, I will only do and say what is beneficial to me, not labeling my own actions as moral or immoral. It's sort of like the "Does this make my butt look fat?" thing in which the man can't really answer yes even if it does in fact make her butt look fat.

Originally Posted by O'nus

However, I really disagree with the idea that they should be revered.
~

As do I. It is interesting to note the contrasts between both extremes, and attempt to find middle ground.

Wouldn't you first need to grasp all the fundamentals of reality in order to say someone has disconnected from it. Who on earth has the authority to say such a thing?

I think it would be pretty safe to say that everyone has a case of schizophrenia. It's just a matter of whether you own up to your own madness, or not-- whether you paved your own way to break from this reality, or simply chose to conform with how society decides to break itself from reality, both paths are one and the same.

Just scratching beneath the surface of the absurd materialistic ways of the west will show you how fundamentally wrong it is to believe that the world as just a problem waiting to be solved. There is no problem to begin with. Mystery is and always will be ingrained into the very essence of experience.

Just thinking deeply into the laws that have us remain glued to the surface of a sphere, and how fast that sphere spins around the sun at any given moment is enough to make your head spin. Just looking around real hard into the why of reality is enough to make you feel astonished.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the topic of honesty, especially since O'nus seems to be the only one with any real ground to stand on with this divergent topic. The rest sounds like a lot of loosely informed conjecture without really relating to the topic its all supposed to be about.

I'd like to know, regardless of how much of your brain you use at any given moment, what exactly does your ability or lack thereof to understand the inner workings of your brain and its role in society have to do with being honest? I can say (honestly) that I don't really have a clear understanding of who or what I am, fundamentally speaking, and yet I am still capable to utter truths and falsehoods as I believe them to be. To be honest is to communicate your beliefs about truth whether they are correct or not. Correctness and knowledge of capital T Truth has nothing to do with honesty in my opinion.