The Meaning Of Life? Let's have a go ...

[AwesomeEvs]

Pulled straight from my blog, please let me know what you guys think of my take on this: What is the meaning of this life? If we are but carbon based lifeforms that, through evolution, now have organs that synthesise efficiently to give us a sense of intellect and integrity, then is it not possible we are a mere 'stroke of luck' - a by-product of the universe's eternal cycle of randomness? But we forget it is more than a 'sufficient' network of organs that we have; the human body is an ultra-complex mechanical system with all the parts working in majestic harmony. The chances of our coincidental creation here are low, very low indeed. Double six doesn't cut it we need a million dice that hit their own specific targets for a hope of success in this theory. The odds are low, but there are odds nonetheless and in the grand scale of the universe with a trillion dice rolls each nanosecond they suddenly seem more comprehensible. But doesn't everything when we remove it from the tight microcosms of our mind and place it in context with the vast, yet inescapably vague context of the universe. Indeed anything seems and most likely is, a possibility - and now we start talking of 'fractional probabilities', ha! In a universe where we can barely reach the outside of our own galaxy, we lack any confirmation of truth in mathematics outside the confines of our own world. In fact, in our own world, perceptively, we have no 'proof' that even Newtons laws are 'true'; they are simply theories (and just that) that happen to fit in with our other theories. Indeed in our everyday lives, we have to regard some of our earthly concepts as truths, as absolutes. But on the universal scale, '6:48' could well mean nothing; indeed '6' could well mean nothing. Some would argue that truth and meaning can indeed be found in mathematics everywhere, theories like "phi" (the golden ratio) can sound very convincing when put to us correctly. But the argument has never been properly settled because we lack knowledge of the 'universal scale' that all too often backs up the concept. All we can say of space with the shaky foundations that we have in place is that it's "big, really big", in fact, "it's so big you won't believe how mind-bogglingly big it is"! So where does that leave us? In the universe of course (continuing this blatantly ridiculous reference tangent) 42 could well mean nothing - nothing at all! We can understand that the universe dwarfs us in size. But what about significance? Is our 'intellect and integrity' no more than a mere 'falsity'. Or are we something more? A major part in the plan of 'the almighty' perhaps? For these questions it is impossible to say for sure. Leaps of faith are required in each direction. Truth is but a perception, even when we have 'evidence'. But without 'evidence' what do we see - what can we say? I believe that our standing can be summarised in this short euthanism; Space, life and meaning are rewards in a game of cards. We haven't been dealt our hand yet and we don't know how to play! Your feedback appreciated! /Evs

[george]

I do not have a clear opinion of what the meaning of life is. I have some shreds of ideas, but .. who would have a clear answer? The meaning of life is to learn, to experience, to notice the people around you in the metro, to see the marvel of how the society works, to be peaceful, to be happy, to notice the rareness of our existence, to pay attention to every moment, to enjoy what you are doing at the moment, to notice the oddness of our surroundings, to feel, to smell, to hear... the list of clichés could go on I think the meaning of life is to live - to experience and learn. How we came to be, what our universe is, how our universe works, and other interesting questions will likely never be answered completely - worrying about them gives us nothing in the end, other than realizing our own ignorance. Don't get me wrong, I am very fascianated by every field of science, and lose myself completely while thinking about them, but in the end our first hand experience is what matters. It will not make me happier if I know why quarks form protons and neutrons to form atomic nuclei, or why objects with mass have inertia, or why 3+3=6. The meaning of life is to be. And to make the most of our experience, and asking questions is secondary.

[AwesomeEvs]

The meaning of life is to be. And to make the most of our experience, and asking questions is secondary. Spectacularly put. A truly inspirational reply. Thanks very much! /Evs

[Xei]

So essentially, perhaps pure logic breaks down if you go really really far away? I don't see how that conclusion is reached.

[AwesomeEvs]

Yes, kind of - essentially we have very little idea of what logic is; that is my point. Therefore it can easily be broke down (or built up opposingly). My conclusion is more open than closed; it is all about our own perceptions of logic itself. /Evs

[Xei]

As the pure logic of mathematics and such has never once shown itself to be variable, I think the only rational conclusion one can make is that it is universal... there isn't any evidence to suggest otherwise.

[AwesomeEvs]

True enough for now. But when we explore galaxies afar, can we be sure they will all follow our laws of reason? There is no evidence to suggest otherwise, but a giant leap of faith must be made to 'assume' they will (if we do take the immense size of the universe as absolute - anything is a possibility outside our known realms). It remains perceptive until we discover everything in the universe and measure it against our standards - and that will never happen! Rationality may hold the best answer for now, however the possibility of flaws in logic still remains. /Evs

[Xei]

I think the leap of faith is to assume that they won't. And I don't think we'll ever see other galaxies, Einstein's laws regarding velocity see to that. Perhaps other stars are out of the question even.

[AwesomeEvs]

So given that Leaps of faith are required in each direction. it is fair to assume logic could be broken down ... or not as the case may be. Leaving the arguement open ended once again? /Evs

[Original Poster]

Life is infinite potential desiring to manifest itself.

[AwesomeEvs]

Very wise words, very well put. Thank you! /Evs

[Zotoaster]

The only part of that which I liked was the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy references, apart from that, I have to disagree. First I want to skip to the whole proof thing you're talking about. I think some people take 'proof' too far. To prove Newton's laws, hold a pen a few feet above the air, then let go. If it doesn't fall, Newton was wrong, if it does, he was right! Objects move towards each other as an effect of gravity! I also dont think the chances of life are that slim. Dont forget how primitive life was at first. I cant remember who it was that stuck a few elements which can be found on Earth together in a test tube and added some electricity (to represent lightning), and the result was Amino acids - essential to life. Through evolution and alot of time the chances of something as complex as us seems pretty realistic. Infact, it's not just animals and plants that seem to be able to support themselfs so seamlessly and in harmony. Look at planet Earth for instance; it has a rich atmosphere which is can neutralise using wind and rain. The chances of life you say are pretty small. Is it an even bigger coincidence that it happens to exist on a planet that can support it? Me to be honest though, I dont think there is any real meaning to life. Call me a pessemist but I think we are all really just autonomen; the force of nature at it's finest, but nothing beyond. There would only be a meaning to life if there was a God there to create us, and I am an atheist, so scratch that off the list for me, heheh.

[AwesomeEvs]

Fair response. I must admit, I didn't think of those simple life forms but only complex ones like ourselves - yes evolution makes it seem probable, but is evolution universally true? It is not as simple as dropping a pen to 'prove' this. On that note, I see your point on Newton's laws but as a physicist that I know once noted "I always question what is in front of me". Forgive me for sounding "new age" and "culturally sensitive", but we need to think "outside the box"! You wrote about all these systems functioning together being a greater coincidence doesn’t that bring more credibility to some of my points anyway? I'm glad you liked my Hitchhikers references - stay tuned for more of them! /Evs

[Angel Fae]

"Life is a dream for the wise, a game for the fool, a comedy for the rich, a tragedy for the poor."

[AwesomeEvs]

Another great quote on this subject, Sholom Aleichem, I believe. Thanks again! /Evs

[Abra]

The meaning of life is to spread the joy that is life. We've done it since life began. We reproduce, bringing consciousness from unconscious materials, so that a little bit more of the universe can experience truly being. Recently, creatures have evolved past merely reproducing. Beings are now gaining structures of altruism, and seek to increase the quality of life of others. We're in this together. Life is no game of solitaire. We're here to bring each other higher, higher, higher.

[R.D.735]

I used to view the 'meaning of life' as a search for a purpose, in the sense that the universe we occupy(or our civilization) is, for example, a hammer and the meaning of life is the house that is built with it, nail by nail and board by board. While that perspective generated many equally-plausible answers, I don't think it is a useful perspective. A hammer's purpose is decided by the wielder, not the design of the hammer: action rather than structure. The presupposition in such thinking is that there is an ultimate being that decides its own purpose and has given a singular purpose to everything, yet any beings with free will can choose their own purpose and by their use of their world choose its purpose as well. Meaning is not found in the world, it is made in our hearts.

[Xaqaria]

I think the leap of faith is to assume that they won't. And I don't think we'll ever see other galaxies, Einstein's laws regarding velocity see to that. Perhaps other stars are out of the question even. You made this same claim in another thread, and it seems like you did not read my response to it. what I said before was, Scientists are working on creating a bubble in space with a strange matter barrier. The interior of the bubble, lacking substance, would be able to move faster than the speed of light, and there would be no motion inside the bubble so the rules of relativity would not apply. You can read more about it here and here. These sites also talk about Photon tunneling experiments in which data has been clocked at traveling up to 4.7 times the speed of light. These experiments have been done and it has been shown that it is possible to move faster than the speed of light.

[AwesomeEvs]

Thanks for all the replies! We're in this together. Life is no game of solitaire. We're here to bring each other higher, higher, higher. That's a great principal - but how does it actually work in humanity outside communism? Meaning is not found in the world, it is made in our hearts. That is a very interesting way of looking at it. I trust you also see "Truth" as objective then? You made this same claim in another thread, and it seems like you did not read my response to it. Although I'm no expert, I don't think that the evidence is solid anywhere yet to cite absolute facts either way on the argument. Surely it is open ended? /Evs

[Abra]

That's a great principal - but how does it actually work in humanity outside communism? It hasn't evolved to reach a category that spans across sovereign states yet. Right now, the principal is reached through neighborhoods, communities, and beneficial orginizations. It's a thoroughly saturated value in most individuals' minds. No matter what, the meaning must have two parts. The first is individual, which has pretty much been covered. But there must be a part that a single individual cannot accomplish. Otherwise, why would there be more than one of us? Why not a single being? There are many of us. So the second part must involve others.

[reality check!]

the answer to life, the universe and every thing is... 42

[AwesomeEvs]

Abra - I see your point clearly now, but cannot help to think it will be a while (if ever) all peoples cooperate. But there is always hope ...... - - - 42?! Why didn't I think of that! Oh, wait I did! Thanks guys, /Evs

[Carôusoul]

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[Emerald Wolf]

I'm just wondering if it is at all meaningfull to contemplate an ultimate "purpose" to anything (if I understand "meaning of life" to be the same as "purpose of life")? From my understanding of the concept every "thing" that servers a purpose only does so to complete a higher purpose. Consider an example: The purpose of some gear might be to make a watch function, the watch's purpose is to keep time. The purpose of keeping time may be to regulate one's routine, which might have the purpose of leading a productive life (whatever that is) etc, etc. Now would it make sense for this series of "derived" purposes to reach an end? what would one make of the question: "what is the purpose of <the ultimate purpose> ?"

[AwesomeEvs]

I I like it - straight to the point! Maybe we are all the meaning of life? I'm just wondering if it is at all meaningfull to contemplate an ultimate "purpose" to anything (if I understand "meaning of life" to be the same as "purpose of life")? From my understanding of the concept every "thing" that servers a purpose only does so to complete a higher purpose. Consider an example: The purpose of some gear might be to make a watch function, the watch's purpose is to keep time. The purpose of keeping time may be to regulate one's routine, which might have the purpose of leading a productive life (whatever that is) etc, etc. Now would it make sense for this series of "derived" purposes to reach an end? what would one make of the question: "what is the purpose of <the ultimate purpose> ?" The ultimate purpose ... hmmmm - now that's a tricky one and a good question at that. Maybe (following from Omnius Deus's point) the ultimate purpose is to manifest our potential in a way that (following on from Abra's point) benefits the whole of humankind ... /Evs