Thread: Fate Exists

Excuse my ignorance but that makes no sense to me. The future hasn't been written, how would you travel in a non existing path? past has been written, so shouldn't it be reachable? yeah, a black holes pull is mighty strong, it would eat earth in 1 big gulp. The pig never gets full....It wants More, More, More, More.

Passing of time is an illusion. We only experience time passing because our thoughts are based on chemical reactions which take time to happen. The whole timespan is a single thing, if you take it that way. Just liek a movie - although it logically follows a timeline, it is a single thing itself. The movie isn't created as you watched, it's already set from the beggining.

And Lucid, according to determinism, the future is already written, heh.

*brain blows up*

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

I made a thread about determinism a while ago: science proves fate?

Yeah, that's it. I forgot the name of that thread. Thanks, I tried to mention it earlier but only described it.



So would anyone agree that free-will is an illusion based on the many varied receptive areas in our brain? Or from a central area or point?

as the creator of the thread myself I aree free will is an illusion, simpyl because oru will is also made of reactions

Originally Posted by Kromoh

as the creator of the thread myself I aree free will is an illusion, simpyl because oru will is also made of reactions

What does that make you think of your life's purpose?

nothing... when you analyse reality like I did in that thread, you just close your eyes for yourself (for your ego)

so I just forget about it in everyday life heh ^^

Originally Posted by Kromoh

nothing... when you analyse reality like I did in that thread, you just close your eyes for yourself (for your ego)

so I just forget about it in everyday life heh ^^

I'm happy for you if you are. All we have to do is think; be; live how we want and we will be satisfied. Many do not realize that the choice is within themselves. Or in terms of this thread: Many have not been moved by their experiences; which is perfectly natural and reasonable for them - but not from their viewpoint, as is.

. . .

Originally Posted by Howie

. . .

Funny how this gets posted in this thread. By a spam-bot. One which inevitably is bound by fate.

Originally Posted by really

Yeah, that's it. I forgot the name of that thread. Thanks, I tried to mention it earlier but only described it.



So would anyone agree that free-will is an illusion based on the many varied receptive areas in our brain? Or from a central area or point?

Without evidence, no I will not. You may say that our understanding of neuroscience destroys free will, but that doesn't mean that anyone is actually capable of predicting any individuals thoughts and desires.

Originally Posted by Kromoh

Passing of time is an illusion. We only experience time passing because our thoughts are based on chemical reactions which take time to happen. The whole timespan is a single thing, if you take it that way. Just liek a movie - although it logically follows a timeline, it is a single thing itself. The movie isn't created as you watched, it's already set from the beggining.

And Lucid, according to determinism, the future is already written, heh.

How can our thoughts be based on chemical reactions that take time to happen if the passing of time is an illusion and does not exist?

Originally Posted by Kromoh

I compeltely disagree with that. Actually, if you interpret reality as i do, it is all consisted of reactions that obbey pre-existing laws (gravity for example. That is the school of determinism - what will happen here in two years is already determined, since it's only a reaction of what happens today, which is a reaction of what happened two years ago, and so on. These reactions follows strict rules that will converge in what will happen then. An example of this is predicting tomorow's weather by knowing the way it is today.

Predicting the future is, though impossible for a human or machine, since there are too many things to determien and process (the slightest difference in the speed of an electron would render the results invalid).

Free will is apparent, because our actions and thoughts themselves are only reactions. You might take it like "I have free will, I like apples" - but everything that happened on the universe so far converged on you liking apples. So, yeah, free will doesn't exist (although it may not seem like so).

I made a thread about determinism a while ago: science proves fate?

----

Time travellign is only possible to the future - because to the past would make an endless cycle (more like a logical fallacy). Actually because, to relatively advance to the future, you must go to a place of less gravity (space), and to relatively "go back", you'd have to go somewhere where gravity is stronger than light (a black hole). And everyone knows it's impossible to get out of a black hole (not even light can heh).

Read the rest about what I have written in this thread. If you study science I think you'll find your beliefs about the subject are mostly false. Determinism is a philosophy and does not have much in the way of scientific backing.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Without evidence, no I will not. You may say that our understanding of neuroscience destroys free will, but that doesn't mean that anyone is actually capable of predicting any individuals thoughts and desires.

I don't think I have mentioned predictions or predetermination; because I do not question them; I don't care. I am asking a question out of honesty, not rhetoric.

I'd say you got that reversed. What you are talking about is rhetoric, as you are merely talking about the subject instead of trying to get closer to what the honest truth of the matter is.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

How can our thoughts be based on chemical reactions that take time to happen if the passing of time is an illusion and does not exist?

Thoughts don't take time to happen. They have a span of time from their "beggining" to their "end". Just like there is a distance from two points in a ruler, but the ruler isn't created as you use it. Again, it's like a movie, determined from the beggining: the movie isn't created as you watch it.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Read the rest about what I have written in this thread. If you study science I think you'll find your beliefs about the subject are mostly false. Determinism is a philosophy and does not have much in the way of scientific backing.

Science does indirectly state determinism, since it studies the laws that guide teh universe. If science proves there are natural laws that determine how e.g. two compounds will react, then it does say all the universe is determined by those laws. What happens to all the physical matter is only an outcome of those laws (e.g. gravity, magnetism etc). It has all the scientifical backing possible, if you really consider it.

Originally Posted by really

I was just inspired to write this.

Why has this peice of shit got so many replies?

Originally Posted by Kromoh

Thoughts don't take time to happen. They have a span of time from their "beggining" to their "end". Just like there is a distance from two points in a ruler, but the ruler isn't created as you use it. Again, it's like a movie, determined from the beggining: the movie isn't created as you watch it.



Science does indirectly state determinism, since it studies the laws that guide teh universe. If science proves there are natural laws that determine how e.g. two compounds will react, then it does say all the universe is determined by those laws. What happens to all the physical matter is only an outcome of those laws (e.g. gravity, magnetism etc). It has all the scientifical backing possible, if you really consider it.

Well actually, scienctific laws are observed characteristics of specific phenomena that hold true throughout our observed local reality. Most scientific laws are not meant to apply outside of our solar system for instance, since no one has yet been capable of making the necessary measurements outside of our solar system.

Regardless, Quantum theory states that at any given moment, it is impossible to know both the position and the velocity of any particle. Some may say that the motions and precise positions of single particles do not have an effect on the macro scale, but chaos theory shows us that even seemingly insignificant differences in small variables can have drastic effects on future outcomes. As I said before, current scientific evidence points to a future that is ultimately unknowable.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Well actually, scienctific laws are observed characteristics of specific phenomena that hold true throughout our observed local reality. Most scientific laws are not meant to apply outside of our solar system for instance, since no one has yet been capable of making the necessary measurements outside of our solar system.

It doesn't mean that what happens out of the solar system doesn't follow natural laws. I don't mean scientifical laws, since those could possibly be invalid under some circumstances, but I mean natural laws.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Regardless, Quantum theory states that at any given moment, it is impossible to know both the position and the velocity of any particle. Some may say that the motions and precise positions of single particles do not have an effect on the macro scale, but chaos theory shows us that even seemingly insignificant differences in small variables can have drastic effects on future outcomes. As I said before, current scientific evidence points to a future that is ultimately unknowable.

It is (as of now) impossible for us to determine it - it doesn't mean that the quantum particles don't follow some underlying rule that hasn't yet been discovered. Yes, it is impossible to know what will happen after an infinite ammount of time, since that would take at least an infinite ammount of time to determine - but it doesn't mean that there are not rules that determine it that way. Is the universe already determined from the beggining? Yes. Does it mean we (humans) can determine it with our current knowledge and technology? No. But maybe one day.

(Note that I mean "beggining of the universe" in a non-literal way. I believe in the dual-infinity theory - like time is infinite both in the future and in the past - just like the numerical system)

I hate it when people cite quantum physics, which is a relatively new branch of science, and one which we don't really have that much knowledge in, to justify their arguments.

Hey, science is science.

Funny how a single statement can summon up a huge thread of political banter.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I'd say you got that reversed. What you are talking about is rhetoric, as you are merely talking about the subject instead of trying to get closer to what the honest truth of the matter is.

No, I just prefer not to end a discussion so abruptly because we do not have scientific evidence for something. I do not know what evidence you already have, let's discuss. Tell me anything, objectively or subjectively; whatever keeps this going.

Originally Posted by Jdeadevil

Why has this peice of shit got so many replies? ... Funny how a single statement can summon up a huge thread of political banter.

You obviously haven't thought about it as much as I have. Basically it means you will read: "Fate Exists"... "I was just inspired to write this"; put one and one together and you get two: Fate exists so it will determine itself.

But it is up for discussion.

It depends... Since theres no way to change a previous path, and what you choose is what your stuck with (usually), theres no way to see what would've happened if you took an alternate path.

Actually, the lines from this song comes to mind when I think of this:

"I chose my own fate, I drove by the fork in the road and went straight."

If there IS such a thing as fate, I think it only merely presents the opportunity to do something, but the choice is still ours to make. But even that is contradictory, because every choice we make, influences another choice available, and thus, if choices are ours to make, then fate doesn't exist, just probable outcomes.

The hands of time
Who knows who owns the clock hands that rule all of our lives
Perhaps we are all
Just live bait
Left dangling helpless
In the sea of fate......

Infinityecho
I was just inspired to write this.