Math

[Sornaensis]

(I'll use lines to illustrate this) Will ||| put with ||| ever make ||?

[NeoSioType]

(I'll use lines to illustrate this) Will ||| put with ||| ever make ||? Alright... I try not to hurt myself. Think in 3-D. The first 3 lines are put on the ground and are seen from above. Take 1 line from the first 3 and put it on top of another. Add the remaining 3 on top. It's not really math, but from an above view it's two.

[Oneironaut Zero]

(I'll use lines to illustrate this) Will ||| put with ||| ever make ||? Yes. If | = 1. (| x | x |) x (| x | x |) = (| x |) Therefore ||| x ||| = || in algebraic form.

[Sornaensis]

No I'm talkiing about drawing three lines next to three more. Like: ||| right next to |||. Or possibly in a more three-D setting like Neo described. Will that ever make ||. (Lines)

[NeoSioType]

Yes. If | = 1. (| x | x |) x (| x | x |) = (| x |) Therefore ||| x ||| = || in algebraic form. hmm. It works, but why would seis subsitute 1's for |? He must have a reason, other than that it's pointless as a philosophy thread. Edit-Darn a minute off.

[Oneironaut Zero]

No I'm talkiing about drawing three lines next to three more. Like: ||| right next to |||. Or possibly in a more three-D setting like Neo described. What does that have to do with Math, though? But, as far as in 3D setting goes, sure. If it's turned so that the 3 lines in each group are moving away from you. Instead of ||| you would see | if the lines are in single file. A pair of such configurations, side by side, would look like ||.

[Sornaensis]

Because math gets in the way of this. My qustion is can it ever actually become ||| next to ||| being ||? Not JUST perception, but actually become || from ||| next to |||? If not then doesn't this make our understanding of math flawed?

[Oneironaut Zero]

You've completely lost me. I dunno.

[Sornaensis]

Well in math, everything is about "true" value. You can make 2 + 2 become 14 if you like, but does || next to || make ||||||||||||||? If not then doesn't that bring up serious questions aobut mathematics at its heart?

[27]

You're better at math than me. I have no idea how to make 2+2=14.

[Sornaensis]

By making the "true" value of 2 7.

[NeoSioType]

By making the "true" value of 2 7. That works but realisically we should already know that. We count what we see, any hidden value means nothing to us. Most math is for real world concepts. It's like that because it follows logic. If you wanted to make 2+2=14 without any tricks that boarder on the line of puzzles you would need some imaginary concept similar to negative numbers, infinity, ect.

[Oneironaut Zero]

No. You would have to have a set (true) value for |. If | = 14 (for instance) then there is no way that you could put 14, 14, and 14 together with 14, 14, and 14 to get 14 and 14. It just doesn't work. The only way that would be possible is if | = 1, like I said in my first post.

[Serkat]

Well if you set the true value of | to 0, then |||||| ^= 000000 = 0 = 00 ^= || By using lines | it seems like you mean objects, rather than symbols... like matches. It's really quite confusing. Why not lay out your case plainly and use a commonly identified symbol such as A that wouldn't be mistaken for a three-dimensional object. Also, I give you these objects: OOOOOOOOO Put them in 5 lines of 4

[Sornaensis]

Again, O, I am comparing numbers to actual things-- not mixing them. Forget the labels: || put next to || making || is no the same as 2 + 2 = 2. If you had PP and put it with PPP, could you get PPPPPP as the result?

[Serkat]

Again, O, I am comparing numbers to actual things-- not mixing them. Forget the labels: || put next to || making || is no the same as 2 + 2 = 2. If you had PP and put it with PPP, could you get PPPPPP as the result? What is P?

[Sornaensis]

P is an object that you can see, feel, touch, or percieve of in some way. If you have P P P and put them with P P P, can you have P P P P as an end result?

[ChaybaChayba]

Math is a unversal logic language system invented by humans. (Leibniz and Newton to be exactly). New rules and new concepts get added all the time. Math is even seperated in different systems with different possible calculations. Not all calculations are possible in all systems. But sure, you can add a new system to math where 2+2=14. I don't see why you would wanna do that because it doesn't really serve the purpose of calculation does it. If you had PP and put it with PPP, could you get PPPPPP as the result? Yes, if you define a new binary operation which you call seis. PP seis PPP = PPPPPP

[Sornaensis]

Again-- This is constrasting math by comparing actual action/reactions to mathemeatical equations-- not mixing them. Once more: If I copied P on my computer and pasted it next to PPP, will I be able to get PP by ONLY pasting NEXT TO 'PPP'?

[Serkat]

PPPP is part of PPPPPP but it's not identical.

[ChaybaChayba]

So you're asking if you have 1 bird, and you put 3 birds next to it, is it possible you will end up with 2 birds? No, unless 2 of them fly away I guess. I don't really see the connection with math tho, what are you getting at?

[Sornaensis]

Well because in math 1 + 2 can equal 4 just like 15 / 34.34 can become 112. Because numbers and operations are just labels.

[NeoSioType]

Well because in math 1 + 2 can equal 4 just like 15 / 34.34 can become 112. Because numbers and operations are just labels. They are labels, but they work for the real world. Changing this stuff around is useless to us. That's all I have to say.

[Sornaensis]

That's not what I mean. I am saying that this then means that Math is subjective.

[Serkat]

Numbers aren't labels, the labels are the labels for the numbers. If you make the symbol 2 mean the number 3, that doesn't mean that the real 2 is 3.