• Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views




    View Poll Results: What do you think?

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    • Free Will

      5 29.41%
    • Determinism

      12 70.59%
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    Results 26 to 36 of 36
    1. #26
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      Free will for me - think about it... if everything would be predetermined, we wouldn't be talking about this now... no one ever would... because things would be made to happen in such a way that no one would ever think about it... simple, eh? I do believe in fate though... well sorta...

    2. #27
      Member bradybaker's Avatar
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      Originally posted by grim_reaper
      Free will for me - think about it... if everything would be predetermined, we wouldn't be talking about this now... no one ever would... because things would be made to happen in such a way that no one would ever think about it... simple, eh?
      That is one of the most illogical, unfounded statements I have ever read.
      "This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time."



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    3. #28
      Member AcidBasick's Avatar
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      Originally posted by bradybaker+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bradybaker)</div>
      <!--QuoteBegin-grim_reaper
      Free will for me - think about it... if everything would be predetermined, we wouldn't be talking about this now... no one ever would... because things would be made to happen in such a way that no one would ever think about it... simple, eh?
      That is one of the most illogical, unfounded statements I have ever read.[/b]
      Agreed.

      Free will is such a human term. Our awarness is a catalyst to our reasoning that our actions are not determined. On the other end, we feel that our intelligence can help disprove free will; science will help to show that we are not in control.

      When it comes down to it, the question isn't whether or not free will exists, but what would we gain from the knowledge of knowing whether either is true? Would knowing that what I do is determined play a role in my life? How about if what happens relies on myself?


      The process of living is not just actions and thoughts and being in control; it's experiencing the world. Free will doesn't effect my awareness of looking through the window, it only changes what happens therein.

      Number of Lucid Dreams: 14
      Last Lucid Dream: November 14, 2004

    4. #29
      Member docKnubis's Avatar
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      Re: Free Will or Determinism?

      Originally posted by bradybaker
      I recently finished watching Waking Life for the 8th or 9th time and as always was deeply intrigued by the discussion involving free will.

      On one hand, if God knows everything that is going to happen then where do we get off thinking that we can chose our own path?

      On the other, we know that all physical systems are governed by basic physical laws. Even if we \"choose\" to lift our arm, that entire process is governed by chemical, electrical and physical laws. So it seems that the Big Bang set up the initial conditions and the rest of history is just the playing out of these various subatomic particles.

      Either way, there isn't much room left for free will. I look forward to reading your input.
      ok i have the "know whats to happen" he nows all possible outcomes so he knows what will happen its like my magic fruit grapes apples bananas and then the choice of none like if you choose the grapes to eat then you may get an A+ on the test you will take that day. its like the cause and effect i like cause and effect becouse it lets me belive that there are (planet of the apes unlimited paths/realities) more of me out in other plains. but if you choose the apple you may bomb the test and get an F eat the banana and there is no test at all. choose none and you die from starvation . i like cause and effect matrix style
      you can't do that on the internet!.... wait yes you can do it again!

    5. #30
      Member AcidBasick's Avatar
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      Re: Free Will or Determinism?

      Originally posted by docthory+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(docthory)</div>
      <!--QuoteBegin-bradybaker
      I recently finished watching Waking Life for the 8th or 9th time and as always was deeply intrigued by the discussion involving free will.

      On one hand, if God knows everything that is going to happen then where do we get off thinking that we can chose our own path?

      On the other, we know that all physical systems are governed by basic physical laws. Even if we \"choose\" to lift our arm, that entire process is governed by chemical, electrical and physical laws. So it seems that the Big Bang set up the initial conditions and the rest of history is just the playing out of these various subatomic particles.

      Either way, there isn't much room left for free will. I look forward to reading your input.
      ok i have the \"know whats to happen\" he nows all possible outcomes so he knows what will happen its like my magic fruit grapes apples bananas and then the choice of none like if you choose the grapes to eat then you may get an A+ on the test you will take that day. its like the cause and effect i like cause and effect becouse it lets me belive that there are (planet of the apes unlimited paths/realities) more of me out in other plains. but if you choose the apple you may bomb the test and get an F eat the banana and there is no test at all. choose none and you die from starvation . i like cause and effect matrix style[/b]
      From what I can decipher from that block words, you seem to have missed the point entirely.

      We are discussing whether or not you would choose the grapes to begin with. Not what happens after you take one or the other.

      Number of Lucid Dreams: 14
      Last Lucid Dream: November 14, 2004

    6. #31
      Member docKnubis's Avatar
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      Re: Free Will or Determinism?

      Originally posted by AcidBasick+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AcidBasick)</div>
      Originally posted by docthory@
      <!--QuoteBegin-bradybaker

      I recently finished watching Waking Life for the 8th or 9th time and as always was deeply intrigued by the discussion involving free will.

      On one hand, if God knows everything that is going to happen then where do we get off thinking that we can chose our own path?

      On the other, we know that all physical systems are governed by basic physical laws. Even if we \"choose\" to lift our arm, that entire process is governed by chemical, electrical and physical laws. So it seems that the Big Bang set up the initial conditions and the rest of history is just the playing out of these various subatomic particles.

      Either way, there isn't much room left for free will. I look forward to reading your input.


      ok i have the \"know whats to happen\" he nows all possible outcomes so he knows what will happen its like my magic fruit grapes apples bananas and then the choice of none like if you choose the grapes to eat then you may get an A+ on the test you will take that day. its like the cause and effect i like cause and effect becouse it lets me belive that there are (planet of the apes unlimited paths/realities) more of me out in other plains. but if you choose the apple you may bomb the test and get an F eat the banana and there is no test at all. choose none and you die from starvation . i like cause and effect matrix style
      From what I can decipher from that block words, you seem to have missed the point entirely.

      We are discussing whether or not you would choose the grapes to begin with. Not what happens after you take one or the other.[/b]
      read my location
      i under stand this is all about free will and grapes but i was refering to the fact that god knows what will happen if you choose the grapes apples banana or none so i will to you
      you can't do that on the internet!.... wait yes you can do it again!

    7. #32
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      Originally posted by bradybaker+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bradybaker)</div>
      <!--QuoteBegin-grim_reaper
      Free will for me - think about it... if everything would be predetermined, we wouldn't be talking about this now... no one ever would... because things would be made to happen in such a way that no one would ever think about it... simple, eh?
      That is one of the most illogical, unfounded statements I have ever read.[/b]
      Weird, it appears perfectly logical to me... or maybe it's just my way of thinking

    8. #33
      Member gameover's Avatar
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      It seems quite illogical to me also. WHy would it stop this conversation from happening? This conversation was supposed to start based on the chemical processes in the universe. Why would it NOT happen if it were predetermined. YOur statement doesnt really make sense.
      I'm in Chasing Mars, one of Chicago's best [link removed - ask for permision]indie rock bands[/url]! <------CLICK FOR FREE MUSIC

    9. #34
      Member Awaken's Avatar
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      Originally posted by grim_reaper

      Weird, it appears perfectly logical to me... or maybe it's just my way of thinking
      "If everything would be predetermined, we wouldn't be talking about this now... no one ever would... because things would be made to happen in such a way that no one would ever think about it... simple, eh?" <---no, not simple. Convoluted, and for once I agree with bradybaker - unfounded. And your reply doesn't help for any credibility.
      In this crazy world if they don't consider you mad, then you have no confirmation of your own sanity, do you?
      Imagine if this crazy world thought you were sane?! Oh my God, worst nightmare!
      -David Icke

    10. #35
      Member gameover's Avatar
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      Yeah this is a first....agreeing with brady baker
      I'm in Chasing Mars, one of Chicago's best [link removed - ask for permision]indie rock bands[/url]! <------CLICK FOR FREE MUSIC

    11. #36
      Member Belisarius's Avatar
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      There is nothing you can know beyond that you exist(not necessarily your body), and that your perceptions exist(not necessarily what you percieve). Everything beyond that is speculation, it's all religion. Science is just a giant geometry proof. Given A Prove B. We have no proof that A exists, but we observe B and so create A in order to use it to explain B.

      If the universe exists beyond our perception then all science and all of our understanding of the universe, even each other, is based on our limited and probably flawed perception of that universe.

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