Thread: God is a lucid dreamer who has lost his lucidity.

Someone should probably close this thread. It has failed to fulfill it's purpose.

Failure lies in the eye of the beholder Let the dogs have their meat.

Originally Posted by really

Sorry, I could make no sense of any of that.

Read some Karl Popper.

Originally Posted by stonedape

@Neruo
I don't really know what you mean by don't think about it too hard. I've been thinking about stuff like this for the past 7 years. You obviously don't believ in any kind of spirituality, so how would you expect this to make sense to you? You just take anything spiritual and say it's wrong flat out without thinking about it from a different perspective.

I personally believe there is no perspective to take here. If I am not mistaken in the first post I made I compared this 'what if god is a lucid...' scenario to a 'what if there is an invisible gnome in my pants..' scenario. I quite literally mean that, since both claims are possible, but unlikely, and have no reason to be believed. I think fantasizing about things is fun and great, if you at least don't let the line between fantasy and real blur. But when thinking up theories that might actually be the case, they need to be at least slightly more likely than the gnome in my pants. For instance the question whether our universe will keep on expanding, or will crunch together again, that can be discussed, and some evidence in favour for one or the other can be presented, and probably a 'we don't know, both could be possible' will result.

The point is that even within a religious framework there is really to truly theorize there. It's just throwing nice words on a pile. That's fine, for artist corner or something. Then again, I think the bible itself should be in the fiction department of the bookstore.

Anyhow, sorry I accused the topic starter of making claims, while he didn't made those claims. All I can say about this topic is that there is little to be said about it, and that there might be an invisible, undetectable gnome in my pants.

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

Reality is relative. God is just a being belonging to an unknown species. He went to sleep, and got a lucid dream. In this dream, he created the heavens and the earth, etc etc. He was capable of performing great miracles, just like lucid dreamers. We think we are "real", even though we are his DC's. But what is real? According to Morpheus' description we ARE real. We can be heard, touched, smelled, etc.
He created humans "In his image".
That's why we have the ability to lucid dream as well.
We can created worlds, people, do the impossible...

The reason why he no longer performs miracles and shows himself to the people is perhaps because he lost his lucidity... Now he is still among us, unable to age or die, almighty in HIS own world - but he just forgot...

Discuss ^^

Expanded: The universe is a spiral... Our level of reality was created by a dreamer from one level above us. God and his species are possibly humans too (Our DC's are also human) and perhaps god is powerless in his "real world". He was created by the one He calls his God, And so forth...
Maybe we ARE the top of the spiral, and our God(s) are just an illusion...who knows.

But! My hypothesis does not contradict with evolution. Perhaps this spiral has and ending somewhere...all the way at the top, there is species created by evolution alone. How this system came to be in the first place, THAT is the big question.
We THINK we were created by evolution, but this is an illusion... Just like how DC's think they are real even though they were created only a few minutes earlier...

Maybe the worlds we create in an LD don't cease to exist when we wake up... The locals (DC's) will continue to exist in the world we created, maybe write legends and stories about the time when we were present in their world... Perhaps the worlds we've created only disappear when we die. So when our God dies in his "real" world...we're done for.

God is "the One" from the matrix. There is also an oracle, God's dream guide - somewhere out there...
Fascinating, no?

Pure Bull Shit.

Originally Posted by TransientOcclusion

Pure Bull Shit.

Keep in mind that I have never said that I know the thruth - I was just brainstorming. Are all of you guys BLIND or something? How many times do I have to repeat this!?

What a wonderful way to debate by the way.

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

Keep in mind that I have never said that I know the thruth - I was just brainstorming. Are all of you guys BLIND or something? How many times do I have to repeat this!?

What a wonderful way to debate by the way.

Well, in this case, your brainstorming is BullShit.

All brainstorming is bullshit.

(Edit: No,) it is what it is.

OK.
Someone please close this thread.

Really interesting theory... Perhaps we are all God, of our own universes in our dreams?

Originally Posted by Everlong

Really interesting theory... Perhaps we are all God, of our own universes in our dreams?

That's indeed what I was trying to say. Thank you for at least looking at my hypothesis.

Originally Posted by really

bullshit.

I agree. Bullshit.

It's egocentricism. Why get all bent out of shape over it. Idiots. Myself included because of this post. It's what causes us to dream up new ideas to make the world better. It's called setting an example for the next generation instead of worrying about our petty differences. Fuck.

Originally Posted by werwun

It's egocentricism. Why get all bent out of shape over it. Idiots. Myself included because of this post. It's what causes us to dream up new ideas to make the world better. It's called setting an example for the next generation instead of worrying about our petty differences. Fuck.

Are you critisizing me? Or the guys who have destroyed my beautiful hypothesis?

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

Are you critisizing me? Or the guys who have destroyed my beautiful hypothesis?

Oh, so it was a hypothesis?

Originally Posted by Neruo

Oh, so it was a hypothesis?

I have always said that it was a hypothesis. NOT a theory.
A theory has evidence to support it - a hypothesis does not.

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

Are you critisizing me? Or the guys who have destroyed my beautiful hypothesis?

Constructive criticism! Pick up the pieces and move on

This is a really interesting topic. I don't have time to read the whole thread because i am too lazy and tired but thank you Timothy Paradox for opening my eyes to this enlightening new concept!

Originally Posted by Idolfan

This is a really interesting topic. I don't have time to read the whole thread because i am too lazy and tired but thank you Timothy Paradox for opening my eyes to this enlightening new concept!

That's more like it.

Hey Tim. Very interesting idea you've got going here. Don't let anyone tell you it isn't philosophic because it's a "what if" concept; that's the whole point of philosophy, to contemplate those things we cannot measure or justify.

To the braniacs on the forum, perhaps you've heard of that little philosophic tale "The Ship of Theseus?" It's a massive "what if" concept, but it brings up this issue of formal cause. The focus of the though experiment isn't to focus on the relevance of destroying and rebuilding a ship, but to probe the idea and to discuss.

As Omicron said on the first page... this is a discussion board, not an agreement board. Though remember it is not a hate board either. If you really don't agree with Tim, ignore him. Don't waste your time.

But I digress...

Back to the LDing God discussion. I had a thought... what if we're in the LD of our DCs? Like, all of our dreams form together the dream world, and all the DCs dreams for the real world? Interesting idea, no?

Originally Posted by Serkat

No. God doesn't exist.

God doesn't believe in you either, therefore you do not exist.

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

Reality is relative. God is just a being belonging to an unknown species. He went to sleep, and got a lucid dream. In this dream, he created the heavens and the earth, etc etc. He was capable of performing great miracles, just like lucid dreamers. We think we are "real", even though we are his DC's. But what is real? According to Morpheus' description we ARE real. We can be heard, touched, smelled, etc.
He created humans "In his image".
That's why we have the ability to lucid dream as well.
We can created worlds, people, do the impossible...

The reason why he no longer performs miracles and shows himself to the people is perhaps because he lost his lucidity... Now he is still among us, unable to age or die, almighty in HIS own world - but he just forgot...

Discuss ^^

Expanded: The universe is a spiral... Our level of reality was created by a dreamer from one level above us. God and his species are possibly humans too (Our DC's are also human) and perhaps god is powerless in his "real world". He was created by the one He calls his God, And so forth...
Maybe we ARE the top of the spiral, and our God(s) are just an illusion...who knows.

But! My hypothesis does not contradict with evolution. Perhaps this spiral has and ending somewhere...all the way at the top, there is species created by evolution alone. How this system came to be in the first place, THAT is the big question.
We THINK we were created by evolution, but this is an illusion... Just like how DC's think they are real even though they were created only a few minutes earlier...

Maybe the worlds we create in an LD don't cease to exist when we wake up... The locals (DC's) will continue to exist in the world we created, maybe write legends and stories about the time when we were present in their world... Perhaps the worlds we've created only disappear when we die. So when our God dies in his "real" world...we're done for.

God is "the One" from the matrix. There is also an oracle, God's dream guide - somewhere out there...
Fascinating, no?

This concept about God being a lucid dreamer who has lost his lucidity is illustrated perfectly in the movie "The Nines".

Originally Posted by bcomp

Hey Tim. Very interesting idea you've got going here. Don't let anyone tell you it isn't philosophic because it's a "what if" concept; that's the whole point of philosophy, to contemplate those things we cannot measure or justify.

To the braniacs on the forum, perhaps you've heard of that little philosophic tale "The Ship of Theseus?" It's a massive "what if" concept, but it brings up this issue of formal cause. The focus of the though experiment isn't to focus on the relevance of destroying and rebuilding a ship, but to probe the idea and to discuss.

As Omicron said on the first page... this is a discussion board, not an agreement board. Though remember it is not a hate board either. If you really don't agree with Tim, ignore him. Don't waste your time.

But I digress...

Back to the LDing God discussion. I had a thought... what if we're in the LD of our DCs? Like, all of our dreams form together the dream world, and all the DCs dreams for the real world? Interesting idea, no?

Fact is that actual modern-day philosophers believe that philosophy is (a (major) part of) (hard) science, and that some things are plain bullshit. Such as imagining the 'what-ifs' of invisible gnomes living in your pants.

But if you want to roll along regarding philosophy as some lowbrow intellectually-bankrupt pseudo-science, have fun.

A smart man knows when to quit. A wise man never does.

too lazy to read the whole thread, about to sleep

everything in your dream is a reflection of you

so in your hypothesis, wouldn't that make us reflections of God?

And which part is the God-head really? The Lucid Dreamer or the Subconscious that created the dream?

Wow, I didn't know that someone had a similar idea. A couple of weeks ago I also had a similar idea, it sounds like this: We live in gods conscious. When we have a lucid dream we become somewhat omnipotent. Therefore we become somewhat "related" to god. And we are all gods in our own way. I posted this idea on Philosophy Forums, and disputing it there. BTW I did NOT, look at this topic, then change it, and posted it there, if that's what your going to say.
Timothy I think that if you are really interested in talking about this, it would be better to go there PF, insted of get flammed. Just bring your books with you (I learnt the hard way). Send me a PM for the link.