The logic of logic

**Autumn Dream** · 10-14-2004 10:34 PM

I was thinking about logic today, and I've come up with some perhaps interesting points.

What is logic if you think about it? Well, to apply logic in practice one must have all the necessary information and process and apply it in an impersonal, systematic fashion. However, if you stop to think about it human beings seldom, if not never, have all the necessary information. We say 'this is the next logical step', but we don't have all the information so we can't be totally sure... Furthermore, there is the problem of priorities - let's say we take two people who are 'logical' (if anyone is familiar with MBTI, let's take two T's or two 5w6's if you know about the enneagram) and give these two the exact same information and ask them to reach 'a logical conclusion'. The two will most likely draw slightly, if not massively, different conclusions! Why might this be? Well, two things pop to mind - firstly, priorities. One person may have priorities as: '1. Self-knowledge, 2. Application, etc...', but the second might be the exact opposite. So even though these two people are both logical, they will come up with different conclusions. Also, what about the way we interpret the information we are given? Suppose two 'logical' twins are given identical information and their priorities are identical. They will most likely STILL come to different conclusions because they interpret the information in slightly different ways, attacking the knowledge from different angles so to speak. What is this telling us? Well, this could suggest logic develops from experience (because the way we interpret is down to mostly experience) and subjectivity because we have different priorities. I find this very ironic because logic is meant to be completely objective and unbiased, when in fact it could be viewed as completely biased and personal!

What do you all think of this? Feel free to share you comments, opinions and criticisms. Here are some questions you might want to ask yourself:

1. If there were no humans, would there be logic?
2. Does this mean logic is purely subjective?
3. Is logic an illusion?
4. Should we continue to use logic when it is so personal?
5. Are there any circumstances where there is 'objective' logic?
6. Is logic, in fact, perfectly logical and rational but language itself hinders it?
7. Is logic more 'logical' than emotion? Is emotion logical at all?

**Dr_Pepper_PHD** · 10-14-2004 11:11 PM

Blame it on the goverment...
There could be something else in the universe that uses 'logic' like humans..Possibly. Or we could all just be mentally masked...

**Umbrasquall** · 10-14-2004 11:43 PM

Apparently everything's the government's fault nowadays.

I think you're right. Logic isn't really logic.

"So logically... if she weighs as much as a duck, then she must be a..."
"A... a witch! Burn her!"

**docKnubis** · 10-14-2004 11:50 PM

illogical

Originally posted by Squall

\"So logically... if she weighs as much as a duck, then she must be a...\"
\"A... a witch! Burn her!\"

monty python and the holy grail

**Umbrasquall** · 10-14-2004 11:58 PM

I actually saw that post coming after my post.

"Hey docthory is in the philosophy section?!? I bet he's going to make a senseless post about my holy grail quote."

... and I was right.

**fenderbender** · 10-15-2004 06:53 AM

1. If there were no humans, would there be logic?
2. Does this mean logic is purely subjective?
3. Is logic an illusion?
4. Should we continue to use logic when it is so personal?
5. Are there any circumstances where there is 'objective' logic?
6. Is logic, in fact, perfectly logical and rational but language itself hinders it?
7. Is logic more 'logical' than emotion? Is emotion logical at all?

1. Logic is like mathmatics. Absolute. At least as the academic world defines it. YES..But withour humans to define it NO..I diagress
2. No..refer to 1. or 1 part two..here we go again
3. LOL...How did Styx say it "The Grand Illusion"
4.If you want to survive in this plane...Cause and effect dear.
5. This question is subjective....you can make it what you want..Isn't it all
6. No...Listen to instrumental music and observe the emotions it evokes. There are no words, but it induces feeling through the timbre and tone. Certain music can evoke the same emotions in people no matter what language they speak
7.There is no logic to emotion and I personally am very happy for that. If I could predict how a person was going to react given a certain stimulas I would "exit stage left"

**Jammy** · 10-15-2004 04:04 PM

I would say logic is like "stable". If something isnt logic its unstable. In this plane logic is drawn from earlier experience and built on.
I think this information is still logic when inside two differnt people, but they se differnt aspects of the logic. Math and all logic has a universal way of function that can be seen everywhere. Its just works. If there still had been logic if there were no man... well we would never know... if there had just been one man, he would never know what logic was, if he ever thought about it. But he would still live under it and draw his conclusions on it. Like "to get over there, i cant fly so i must swim."
If one draw an unlogicaly conclusion one draws it from all earlier experiences and it becomes unlikely, but i think still possible.
Logic is what we live under, but i dont think we really has comprehended the way of logic and how it works. And i think much of whats unlikely today hasnt been properly linked with logic yet, but it will come.

**Abu Dhabi** · 10-15-2004 11:16 PM

IMO, logic defines what is legal in the universe and what is not. Gravity is legal. Entropia is legal, while it's opposite is not. That, again IMO, is true logic. It's constant and unchangable.

Human's however use reason. It is not logic. It contains logic to some degree, but also things like emotion and experience. By some strange twist of fate, humans are constructed for 'continued survival'. True and pure logic is in conflict with that. According to it, nothing has a goal, it just is. Humans however have a goal - to survive, as a unit and as a species.

IMVSO, logic is not a physical thing. Logic is the rules. Rules are rules, the are not the players, IIMSSM.

**fenderbender** · 10-18-2004 04:00 AM

Logic; The study's of the principles of reasoning (Shall I quote you?) especially of the structures of propositions as distinguished from their content and of METHOD and VALIDITY in deductive reasoning.
Tell me can you divide by Zero???? <Grin>

**Crucible** · 10-18-2004 03:12 PM

People don't know how to correctly use logic. If used properly every conclusion would be exactly the same. But then I am only half way through a logic course so what do I know. We'll see how much more I learn.

**Abu Dhabi** · 10-19-2004 06:23 PM

Err... no. Due to the chaotic nature of the universe, every conclusion would be different, or at least they would tend to that. Logic is, IMO, taking EVERYTHING into account. And since everything changes always, the conclusions would be different.

Chaos theory. Just imagine what that butterfly in China is doing to your mind right now.

Oh, and on that division by zero thing. It IS valid. We just don't know the solution. Perhaps when we meet aliens or on our own construct beings thinking very differently from us, maybe we'll be able to solve that.

**fenderbender** · 10-20-2004 06:34 AM

Oh, and on that division by zero thing. It IS valid. We just don't know the solution. Perhaps when we meet aliens or on our own construct beings thinking very differently from us, maybe we'll be able to solve that.
A Quote.

So, there are no absolutes? I'm not sure...I know the human mind did come up with the J operator (the square root of negative 1) Which according to logic or " algebratic rules" cannot exist. So we called it an imaginary number and plugged it into formulas to explain things that could not be explained without it....Still at some point in the fabric you would think that there would have to be stability. When your dealing with perceptions of reality, the human mind, and what it has created, and start stepping into the areas of thought that question the ways we have justified and explained our world to ourselfs then It gets...well you know how it gets...Soo I will yield to of there comes a need to divide by zero then we will probably find a way if it will help to explain "why"...We tend to be resourseful

**Umbrasquall** · 10-21-2004 02:26 AM

If we could divide by zero, then that would be awesome. Though the logic kinda exists already for some instances I think. Let me see if I can think of one...

Okay:

50 miles/0 hours = infinite mph?

**Maystar** · 10-21-2004 01:33 PM

everything is just an illusion

we as humans are to emotional to practice logic in many areas...

don't you get book of logical problems.. and isn't the answer the only answer it can possibley be? that doesn't sound like any human/emotional situation that i know - maybe animals though.. they live on instinct which decides if they live or die.

**Maystar** · 10-21-2004 01:34 PM

squall... maybe 50miles hr/0 means quicker than the speed of light?

**dreamwalker007** · 10-21-2004 09:03 PM

x/0=infinity. Always. The definition of infinity is the concept that ther is no end. ever. when you devide by 0, you realize that no matter what number you come up with it will be too small and will never equal or even get closer to x.

The reason why 2 different people would come up with 2 different answers when confrunted with the same peoblem with the same information is because, in reality, they don't have the same information. Each of their life experiences give them either a concious or subconscious piece of information to help further deduce future problems.

Logic: the branch of philosophy dealing with the princeples of reasoning and inference.

I really have no idea what to say about that definition, but i decided to post it anyway.

I don't think we, as humans, know how we deduce anything logically. That's why we still don't really know how to make a real robot. It requires knowledge of logic that we don't have yet.

Logic is based on how we define things. Things clearly defined are easier to make deductions on. That's why, in geometry, they define every little thing so that they are able to logically make assumptions on the next thing. and the next thing and so on.

**Haz** · 10-21-2004 09:33 PM

huh? wot's logic? i think i'm stuid

hello ppl!
i know pi to 50 decimal places!

**dreamwalker007** · 10-22-2004 09:28 PM

One time I memorized pi to about 150 places. It took me a weekend. It was pi day in our class (march 14) and our whole class was supposed to memorize as much as they could. I won and second place got about 20 digits. We got oreos and pie

. Right now I know about as many digits as are in my sig (and I'll know that forever) But the real question is how many digits of a dancing muffin could you memorize?

**Kaniaz** · 10-22-2004 09:39 PM

Oh, n/0. My math teacher was on about that one time.

5/1 is 5.
5/0.95 is 5.26
5/0.90 is 5.55
5/0.85 is 5.88
5/0.80 is 6.25

[...]

5/0.15 is 33.33
5/0.10 is 50
5/0.05 is 100
5/0.04 is 125
5/0.03 is 166.66
5/0.02 is 250
5/0.01 is 500

5/0.001 is 5000
5/0.00000001 is 500000000

He said that when you divide it by zero, the number will just go on forever - that makes sense to me, as the nearer to zero you attempt to divide a number by, the higher the anwser gets.

Thread: The logic of logic

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display

The logic of logic

Re: The logic of logic

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions