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    1. #26
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      Say, is there a way to insert YouTube videos directly into the thread?

      I find its much more convenient to check out videos that way, and it makes for a better presentation.

    2. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by RCLefty View Post
      Say, is there a way to insert YouTube videos directly into the thread?

      I find its much more convenient to check out videos that way, and it makes for a better presentation.

      I think its like get the number ID of the video
      and put it between

      i think




      edit: yeah it works cool

    3. #28
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      Okay, then, here:

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      I have no scientific proof that synchronicities exist, and I don't necessarily believe in them. I was offering a point of view, not a fact. I was just saying that there are patterns in nature that are a little deeper than the surface. I gave an example of this not as proof in synchronicites. I don't know how or if there is a way to prove a subjective experience that is dependent on the consciousness and perception of an observer. This is the nature of subjective experiences. For example, if you start reading about 11:11 and then you start seeing 11:11 more often when you look at clocks, I am not proposing that there is any meaningful signicance to 11:11. But I am just musing, not believing, but musing that perhaps consciousness can create patterns. It seems to me that nature operates according to certain principles and where there is a pattern in one level, there are patterns in all levels. Nature seems to operate according to cycles. Such as night and day, winter and summer, sleep and awake, life and death, big bang and big crunch, etc. I know that there are scientific reasons for these cycles, but these are universal patterns here that seem to express themselves in all levels of manifestation. I am not saying that synchronicities are inherently true, just musing that perhaps there could be deeper patterns here and that it is interesting to see where awareness of said synchronicities lead the consciousness who is engaged in a predatory stalking of said synchronicities. Speaking as a philosophy, not necessarily as a scientific fact.

    5. #30
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      That still doesn't invalidate Emerson's statement. I believe that it means something along the lines of how science portrays itself as rigid and purely based on facts, forgetting the imagination [the scientists] put into creating it in the first place. You have to admit that any creative aspect about science is very much downplayed.
      As others have pointed out: no. You're just making stuff up really, who are these people downplaying creativity? :l

      Many of the most famous scientists talk at length about the importance of imagination, take Carl Sagan or Richard Feynman as classic examples.

    6. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by Car˘usoul View Post
      I think its like get the number ID of the video
      and put it between

      i think




      edit: yeah it works cool
      Could you explain this better, I am not so computer literate. What is the number ID? Put it between what?

    7. #32
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut View Post
      Could you explain this better, I am not so computer literate. What is the number ID? Put it between what?
      In the URL for a YouTube video, it is the string of digits at the end. When you put "yt" in square brackets ([]) on either side of, just like the code for text formatting.

      Try to quote my post, and then copy or paste the id number for a different video where I posted mine, and you'll get it.

      As for these "synchronicities," as you call them, the world is full of patterns that are perfectly natural. However, we also have a tendency to see patterns that aren't there at all. Sometimes there are genuine, physical links of common cause between two events that takes a little digging to uncover, but that is a far cry from supposing that physical events are linked to one another within some poorly defined "non physical" realm. Especially when it's not even clear what a "non-physical entity" is supposed to mean.

    8. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by RCLefty View Post
      In the URL for a YouTube video, it is the string of digits at the end. When you put "yt" in square brackets ([]) on either side of, just like the code for text formatting.

      Try to quote my post, and then copy or paste the id number for a different video where I posted mine, and you'll get it.

      As for these "synchronicities," as you call them, the world is full of patterns that are perfectly natural. However, we also have a tendency to see patterns that aren't there at all. Sometimes there are genuine, physical links of common cause between two events that takes a little digging to uncover, but that is a far cry from supposing that physical events are linked to one another within some poorly defined "non physical" realm. Especially when it's not even clear what a "non-physical entity" is supposed to mean.
      Thanks for the tip. i get it now.

      If we have a tendency to see patterns does that mean that there aren't patterns? I know what you mean, maybe, like seeing faces in clouds or snakes in embers of a fire doesn't mean that there is somebody in the cloud or that the fire has snakes in it. But if one sees a pattern, isn't there a pattern? Not that the pattern is literally true objectively, but that the cognition of a pattern has a psychological effect that in this case pertaining to dreams that can be used in subconscious integration and personal growth.

      Basically, I am not denying that there is no inherent reality or meaning in any pattern, but the subjective meaning can be made more understandable to the conscious mind by being aware of patterns. Yes, these patterns may not be "out there" but in the mind. But witnessing a pattern "out there" makes on aware of the pattern "in here" in the mind. In this case the outward reality functions as a mirror of the mind. So your point may be to not confuse outer coincidences with inner synchronicities. Am I right? In an outer reality the burden of proof would have to be on science, but in the inner worlds it is in the realm of psychology, philosophy, and art. Surreal art uses the illusions of patterns to make other images. Salvador Dali has many paintings where there will be a sheep grazing in front of a couch that has a pillow on it and the whole thing forms a picture of Marilyn Manroe. I think in the same way by paying attention to coincidences can paint a picture of the subconscious or transpersonal levels of the psyche. Not that a sheep will always graze next to a couch with a red pillow or if it does that that means that marilyn manroe will somehow be invoked objectively.

    9. #34
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      Well, that's fine, if we all know what's going on, but might as well be talking about pretending there's a pattern.

      But when you actually believe in a causal link between events that does not actually exist, that's a problem in my opinion.

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      Quote Originally Posted by RCLefty View Post
      Well, that's fine, if we all know what's going on, but might as well be talking about pretending there's a pattern.

      But when you actually believe in a causal link between events that does not actually exist, that's a problem in my opinion.
      But what about when it seems as if there is a causal link? Like, for instance, when one dreams of a many pyramid of fire and the next day one sees
      many pyramids of fire at a pottery studio in the kilns. Or when one dreams of a beautiful woman that one has never seen before at a coffeeshop and so one goes to that coffeeshop and actually meets the girl he dreamt about sitting at the same table? Both these examples are true stories that have happened to me. the first one isn't so amazing but the second one really blew my mind and made me question the relationship between mind and matter. But in common with both these experiences was the deja vu feeling that arose when dreaming and waking life "linked up" as it were. There is a "Eureka" feeling and a flash of insight. Do you know what I'm talking about?
      I am not saying that my dreams were prophetic or anything paranormal like that, but that somehow that I don't understand that there are patterns in the mind that are reflected back in waking life. I am not saying that my mind created the waking life scenarios either but that somehow when the two states of dream and waking overlap they somehow reflect.

    11. #36
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      I do love a good debate my dear Watson

      "MementoMori, the lucid machine"

      "There's nothing better than knowing what it's like to fly like superman. Being fully aware of the air whipping by you, controlling every movement of every single atom in your body with a single thought. It's real freedom, and there's not a word good enough to describe it, so I'll just call it dreamy for now."

    12. #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by RCLefty View Post
      That is not how science portrays itself; that is how the media portray science.
      I stand corrected. I suppose I just don't pay attention enough to the primary sources for scientific knowledge.

    13. #38
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      It's understandable. Science was like that one smart kid in high school, who really wasn't all that socially awkward, but some of the kids treated him like he was, because they found his intellect threatening.

      Not that I'm bitter, or anything...

      But seriously, that's how it works.

      Religion sells, paranormal shit sells, and unfounded medical scares sell. Naturally, the media likes those things, and on those issues, science stands athwart them. So, you should expect to see science as an institution treated rather shabbily in many instances.

      Occasionally, marketable fear and science have the same outcome, such as Global Warming, but even then, there's always a rabid army of opponents to anything science has to say.

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      "MementoMori, the lucid machine"

      "There's nothing better than knowing what it's like to fly like superman. Being fully aware of the air whipping by you, controlling every movement of every single atom in your body with a single thought. It's real freedom, and there's not a word good enough to describe it, so I'll just call it dreamy for now."

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      "MementoMori, the lucid machine"

      "There's nothing better than knowing what it's like to fly like superman. Being fully aware of the air whipping by you, controlling every movement of every single atom in your body with a single thought. It's real freedom, and there's not a word good enough to describe it, so I'll just call it dreamy for now."

    16. #41
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut View Post
      But what about when it seems as if there is a causal link? Like, for instance, when one dreams of a many pyramid of fire and the next day one sees
      many pyramids of fire at a pottery studio in the kilns. Or when one dreams of a beautiful woman that one has never seen before at a coffeeshop and so one goes to that coffeeshop and actually meets the girl he dreamt about sitting at the same table? Both these examples are true stories that have happened to me. the first one isn't so amazing but the second one really blew my mind and made me question the relationship between mind and matter. But in common with both these experiences was the deja vu feeling that arose when dreaming and waking life "linked up" as it were. There is a "Eureka" feeling and a flash of insight. Do you know what I'm talking about?
      I am not saying that my dreams were prophetic or anything paranormal like that, but that somehow that I don't understand that there are patterns in the mind that are reflected back in waking life. I am not saying that my mind created the waking life scenarios either but that somehow when the two states of dream and waking overlap they somehow reflect.
      Well, the problem with your anecdotes is the problem with all anecdotes; it's a claim, about a memory, about a perception of an event. In this case, it involves a dream, which is an inherently subjective experience. I have no independent access to the events described, even the ones that took place in the real world, so it is impossible for me to know how remarkable they really are.

      As for the coincidences themselves, you should watch the video I posted earlier. Here it is again:



      Now, you talk about patterns. I guess my only response to that is that it is senseless to make such vague assumptions. Unless you have some tangible theory about what the connection might be, what are you really talking about?

      Maybe you saw that girl at the coffee shop every day for a week, but didn't notice her until you dreamed it. If not that, maybe something similar.

      If you're not proposing that your dream was prophetic, or that it created reality, then just what are you suggesting?

    17. #42
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      Nice video. I always wondered about the dice when playing yahtzee!

      Quote Originally Posted by RCLefty View Post
      Well, the problem with your anecdotes is the problem with all anecdotes; it's a claim, about a memory, about a perception of an event. In this case, it involves a dream, which is an inherently subjective experience. I have no independent access to the events described, even the ones that took place in the real world, so it is impossible for me to know how remarkable they really are.
      If you're not proposing that your dream was prophetic, or that it created reality, then just what are you suggesting?
      Yes, these are anecdotes, and that is all they will ever be.
      I don't know what I'm suggesting, I'm trying to figure it out myself. In the case with the woman in the coffeeshop, this is a small town where everyone knows each other. Anecdotally, let me tell you that this coincidence was more than a coincidence. It really was as if every detail of the dream came true. It blew my mind. I understand the point that the video made where only one detail of the dream came true while the rest didn't, and that is consistent with how most coincidences involving my dreams are. Even when I forget the dream and seeing something all of a sudden makes me remember it. Like dreaming that I bought a KISS t-shirt and the first person I see the next day is wearing a KISS t-shirt and I remember my dream suddenly. There is nothing remarkable about that, except, the subjective feeling and the rush of memory it invokes. But, no, nothing objectively remarkable. But my point is that the subjective meaning is meaningful, especially if it involves a deja vu like feeling.
      I know that this is not scientific, and I am not trying to prove anything about the quantum field or any grand unifying theory that takes into account coincidences. I am interested in investigating the subjective feelings of "AHA!" or coincidences triggering dream memories and in increasing the coincidences both in frequency AND in novelty. You know what I mean by novelty in coincidences? And the deja vu feeling is pretty remarkable.
      I am not trying to say anything about the material reality of the universe, but more of a mystical subjective reality. But the thing is that at the core of such things the lines get blurry. Like I said before, there is a subjective flow one gets into when one cultivates coincidences where consciousness and material reality seem to mirror each other. I know that I am not a scientist and I have nothing to offer to a scientific investigation of said phenomena except anecdotes, but I am interested in hearing other's experiences with remarkable coincidences and I'd like to offer my technique which has to do with reality checking and dream incubation. Part of my technique has a practice I call "artificially produced coincidence" which definately will not WOW a skeptic but it does cultivate that deja vu feeling and is a form of dreambridging. The goal of this technique is to increase the deja vu feeling throughout the day (and night) in order to spend extended periods of time in the deja vu feeling.
      I don't know what the deja vu feeling IS, but I can't deny that I experience it. The deja vu feeling and the cognition of coincidences is a potent tool for increasing lucidity, at least for me.

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      A couincidence can't explain everything that you simply cannot explain. Not to go into this kind of talk but i have had a really strange thing that happened to me that was the start of a mini series of small things that lead up to a large thing, a large picture if you wanna call it that. It was fate, it was meant to be and there is no couincidence about it. In the end this was and will always be the best thing to ever happen to me. Fate is not some type of "magick" that people fantasize about like people tend to use the word. If something happens in your life, anything really then it wa meant to be. All you have to do is look at the small events that lead to the whole picture, it leads to something much bigger then you would know at the time, because it's the "bigger picture". I believe some things are simply just couincidences, but it depends on what. What you have to do, is observe what is happening. It's not something you can guess, it's something that happens. It leads your life at the time to this 1 event, even if it's not as big as you may think. Not everything has a benefit that you would want, but in the end you will be glad it did happen. Fate is not some type of selfish act or something, but you get the picture. Personally, i can't even understand someone who does not believe in fate, to me it's laid right before our eyes. Life could be a couincidence and it probably is, just a mix of this a mix of that all put together and you got a plate full of spaghetti with some sauce, and whatever you sprinkle on it.


      edit - By bigger picture, i don't mean a god doing these things. I mean a small chain of events that lead to 1 big event. I figure you guys know what i was meaning by bigger picture, but just in case.
      Last edited by LucidFlanders; 12-16-2009 at 11:05 AM.

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      I don't really understand why people put so much emphasis and trust in science, as if its the ultimate explanation.. I mean how many times has science been wrong, corrected, changed, and admitted to not understanding everything.. sometimes you have to look beyond scientific facts and think outside the box to things that cannot be explained. Especially peoples subjective experiences. They obviously cannot be proven, but to the person who experienced it, to them it was real even if it cant be readily explained. What I'm saying is, if science has been wrong so many times in the past...maybe it isn't right about everything now either.
      " If you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you"

      "He who fights with monsters, might he take care lest he thereby become a monster"

    20. #45
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      When was science wrong..?

    21. #46
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      This is a misunderstanding of what science is. "Science" has never been wrong. Science is a method. Individual theories and scientists have been wrong, but science itself is, by its nature, self correcting.

      Non-scientific explanations, on the other hand, do not subscribe to the rigorous controls and methodology as scientific explanations.

      This criticism is fundamentally flawed, because it assumes that credibility can be bestowed upon non-scientific explanations by pointing out the imperfection of scientific knowledge. It is true that our understanding of human consciousness, physics, or other phenomena may and probably will change over time. But, that in no way argues for purely speculative explanations. OBE and AP have no supporting evidence whatsoever. Thinking you can "prove" them by discrediting scientific explanations (which you have not done, in any case) would be like me thinking that by tearing down the Empire State Building, I could meaningfully increase my chances of being the tallest thing on Earth.

      Also, I want to post another video, by the same Youtuber, on the subject of Open Mindedness, a notion that I think is much abused in arguments like this. I think he makes his case far better than I could:


    22. #47
      Xei
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      Thanks for saying that for me, I was going to use Diamond Eye's attempted response as an example but you've covered most of the bases there I think.

      I've had to ask the same question before a few times, most of the responses miss the point even more than you'd think. Things like 'science said the Earth was flat'.
      Last edited by Xei; 12-17-2009 at 02:04 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by * Diamond Eyes * View Post
      I don't really understand why people put so much emphasis and trust in science, as if its the ultimate explanation.. I mean how many times has science been wrong, corrected, changed, and admitted to not understanding everything.. sometimes you have to look beyond scientific facts and think outside the box to things that cannot be explained. Especially peoples subjective experiences. They obviously cannot be proven, but to the person who experienced it, to them it was real even if it cant be readily explained. What I'm saying is, if science has been wrong so many times in the past...maybe it isn't right about everything now either.

      Perhaps because science is the 1 thing that goes into these kinds of things looking at facts and stuff. Perhaps people look a little too deep into science as a person looks a little too deep into something that happened and try to find an explenation for it when there really is none (although that is impossible to even know if it warrants an explenation or not). Science is about the only thing we have to figuring these things out. Science is not telling you what to believe in, rather what to look for. Nobody really should be bad mouthing science, its done A LOT for us, if anything everyone should be accepting a little more science into their lives and how to figure things out.

    24. #49
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      The perception and recognition of coincidence is a subjective phenomenon and outside the scope of science and cannot be proven. But it is not meant to be proven, just as you aren't meant to prove that you are in love or that you like apple pie. There are no facts regarding it.

      My method is this: Look for coincidences in waking life and recent dreams. Cultivate the coincidences. It IS your mind and your attention making them, and this cultivates and exercises your mind and intention. When faced with a coincidence you have a choice: either discount it as meaningless or apply meaning to it, choose the latter. Even small insignificant coincidences should be treated as important signs that your mind is building a bridge between your waking consciousness and your dreaming. When you get that AHA! feeling exaggerate it. Get into the feeling. Artificially producing coincidences goes like this: if you dream of walking down a sidewalk on 3rd street, the next day go walk down that same sidewalk on 3rd street and feel as if you are reliving your dream. If you dream that you had coffee with your friend go have coffee with your friend. This is not a spontaneous coincidence but an artificial coincidence. However the feeling of reliving your dream or re-experiencing your dream will carry over and you will experience many more spontaneous coincidences. These will increase in both number, duration and novelty. More novelty means more off the wall coincidences that defy rationalization. This also carries over into dreams increasing lucidity. Waking life becomes more dreamlike. Deja vu becomes more prevalent.
      After practicing this for some time dreams will become almost prophetic and you will spend extended periods in deja vu. You will meet people who have profound things to say to you. You will encounter surreal situations. Also as you follow the guidance of your coincidences and intuition you will make better choices that will lead you into a more fulfilling path. Luck will be on your side. Opportunities for advancement will fall into your lap and dreams will become not only more lucid, but more meaningful and conducive for psychological and spiritual integration and growth.
      But of course this is not the realm of science. Science is never wrong, but it can't explain subjective reality, only objective reality. It is not a question of proof, explanation, or validation. It is a question of what it means to you and what you do with the insight you gain by whatever techniques work for you.

    25. #50
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      Quote Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut View Post
      The perception and recognition of coincidence is a subjective phenomenon and outside the scope of science and cannot be proven. But it is not meant to be proven, just as you aren't meant to prove that you are in love or that you like apple pie. There are no facts regarding it.

      My method is this: Look for coincidences in waking life and recent dreams. Cultivate the coincidences. It IS your mind and your attention making them, and this cultivates and exercises your mind and intention. When faced with a coincidence you have a choice: either discount it as meaningless or apply meaning to it, choose the latter. Even small insignificant coincidences should be treated as important signs that your mind is building a bridge between your waking consciousness and your dreaming. When you get that AHA! feeling exaggerate it. Get into the feeling. Artificially producing coincidences goes like this: if you dream of walking down a sidewalk on 3rd street, the next day go walk down that same sidewalk on 3rd street and feel as if you are reliving your dream. If you dream that you had coffee with your friend go have coffee with your friend. This is not a spontaneous coincidence but an artificial coincidence. However the feeling of reliving your dream or re-experiencing your dream will carry over and you will experience many more spontaneous coincidences. These will increase in both number, duration and novelty. More novelty means more off the wall coincidences that defy rationalization. This also carries over into dreams increasing lucidity. Waking life becomes more dreamlike. Deja vu becomes more prevalent.
      After practicing this for some time dreams will become almost prophetic and you will spend extended periods in deja vu. You will meet people who have profound things to say to you. You will encounter surreal situations. Also as you follow the guidance of your coincidences and intuition you will make better choices that will lead you into a more fulfilling path. Luck will be on your side. Opportunities for advancement will fall into your lap and dreams will become not only more lucid, but more meaningful and conducive for psychological and spiritual integration and growth.
      But of course this is not the realm of science. Science is never wrong, but it can't explain subjective reality, only objective reality. It is not a question of proof, explanation, or validation. It is a question of what it means to you and what you do with the insight you gain by whatever techniques work for you.
      You should write a small book about this... I'd buy it

      "MementoMori, the lucid machine"

      "There's nothing better than knowing what it's like to fly like superman. Being fully aware of the air whipping by you, controlling every movement of every single atom in your body with a single thought. It's real freedom, and there's not a word good enough to describe it, so I'll just call it dreamy for now."

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