Thread: Religion, is it really needed?

The way I interpret religion is people looking for their spirit's desire outside of themselves. We need to look within and listen to our own intuition. Not look to a book, or what another person says. People lie. Books can be changed. Trust in yourself.

The human mind is for the purpose of effecting human behavior. It consists of two major parts, the emotional and the rational. Effecting human behavior then has two methods, emotional and rational. Religion provides hope and fear for the modification of human behavior. What a mind needs for the effecting of human behavior is determined by the abilities of that mind. It is not a matter of opinion, for the human mind may be defined as that environmental acquisition system which must acquire experience and from that experience effect human expression that maintains and promotes the life of the body.

Both religion and rationality, are, in of themselves neither good or bad--Good or bad is determined by how they are used to effect the purpose of the human mind itself--'to have life and to have it more abundantly. '

Just from the principles of biological fact, those who promote the separation of church and state are too stupid to be in either office.

All of this division between "heart and head" is nothing more than saying that man is not equal to man. "A house divided against itself cannot stand." Were words not only of a prophet, but of a philosopher as well.

Logic does not resolve to itself, but of the purose for that of which it is used--to maintain and promote the life of the body. Therefore, those who claim that logic puts them above religion are those too conceited to comprehend that they do not understand logic at all. By the same token, those who claim that religion negates logic, do so only because of their inability to attain to reason itself.

Religion is good for two things: 1) making people feel good during hard times, and 2) social organization. But there are far better ways of achieving such goals instead of aligning yourself to ancient myths and fairy tales.

To those who wish to keep a special place for religion in their hearts: "Enjoy the fantasy, the fun, the stories - but make sure that there's a clear, sharp line drawn on the floor so that you can step back behind that mark and re-embrace reality. To do otherwise is to embrace madness."

Originally Posted by Meeshu

Exactly what I mean, way back when, when there was no technology people had no idea about germs, so they thought they were demons and stuff like that

The point I was trying to make is just because something is frightening doesn't mean you shouldn't be taught it as true. There are frightening things that exist and we should be made aware of them. Or at the very least we should not be lied to about them.

Originally Posted by Mark75

Or at the very least we should not be lied to about them.

What exactly am I being lied to about Mark75?
Who is telling me lies Mark75?

It's not needed. Air is needed. Food is needed. Water is needed.

Also, you can live a life that is fulfilling in every way without needing such a crutch. That goes double for the abrahamic religions.

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

What exactly am I being lied to about Mark75?
Who is telling me lies Mark75?

I'm not sure. Probably most everyone you've ever met has lied to you at some point.

Originally Posted by Replicon

It's not needed. Air is needed. Food is needed. Water is needed.

Also, you can live a life that is fulfilling in every way without needing such a crutch. That goes double for the abrahamic religions.

You forgot shelter, affection, understanding, identity... There are many things that humans need beyond the mere chemical subsistence of food, water, air.

As is often the case with these sorts of topics, religion is far too broad a term to be narrowed down to a simple yes or no question. Religions can fulfill many of humanity's basic needs. Those needs can be fulfilled in other ways as well, but one could easily argue that variety of modes of fulfillment is itself a basic necessity, so that fulfillment is accessible to a varied population.

A lot of people fall back on the ol' "religion only comes from fear" argument, but there are countless many other reasons to look to religion, and one can just as easily seek shelter from their fear in the comforts provided by scientific advancement, or any other mode of grasping the outside world for that matter.

Originally Posted by Replicon

Also, you can live a life that is fulfilling in every way without needing such a crutch.

The same way other individuals take comfort in the fact that the church/religion[s] are for superstitious fools incapable of rational thought?

I mean what would life be like for those nonbelievers if suddenly god presented itself in a way only that particuliar person would except or even understand?

Foolish believers!

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

The same way other individuals take comfort in the fact that the church/religion[s] are for superstitious fools incapable of rational thought?

I mean what would life be like for those nonbelievers if suddenly god presented itself in a way only that particuliar person would except or even understand?

Foolish believers!

May as well curse the blind and kick the lame.

I am really interested in those who trust in "rationality" when I have yet to see it understood or taught anywhere in the world. Seems to me there is a parallel between one god that one cannot see and another that they have never seen.

Originally Posted by greenhavoc

The same way other individuals take comfort in the fact that the church/religion[s] are for superstitious fools incapable of rational thought?

At what point in my post did I imply that I get comfort from that? I'm just stating it as I see it. My comfort comes from inside. Nothing external justifies my life. My life justifies my life. Obviously, I've hit a sore spot with you, but ultimately, how you react is your choice.

At what point in my post did I imply that I get comfort from that?

It was a general comparison, not a central accusation.

Obviously, I've hit a sore spot with you

Obviously.

Originally Posted by Mario92

I can actually imagine it. When I had my wisdom teeth extracted, I was put all the way under. In that state, I had no emotions, no thoughts, no dreams, no sense of time, no sense of consciousness. It wasn't painful or scary or pleasant or boring or anything else. It is what I sincerely hope awaits me at the end of my life.

I had the same thing happen to me when i was put under for my major knee surgery. It's like "count backwards" and i did, then i woke up in the back hours after the operation...WTF! where did everything go? although some people dream but it's few how many times that happen.

A lot of good discussion in this thread

As CapriSun and possibly others already said, whether religion is "needed" is almost beside the point. It's a fundamental human activity. Like cooking or relationships, we sometimes get it horribly wrong, and some people have a healthier approach than others. In terms of historical and societal impact, we probably lay too much blame and credit at its feet. You can't carve Christianity out of the social milieu of medieval Europe and say, "Now the Crusades won't happen" or "Now society will unravel," because the society would still be full of humans, inclined to cooperate, but only so much, and to destroy each other, but only so much. Religion is inextricably bound up in the fabric of human civilization.

Do the ancient teachings still yield modalities? Most of humanity says yes, and I agree. I've certainly found the study of the world's religions and the practice of one or two to be enriching.

Originally Posted by Taosaur

A lot of good discussion in this thread

As CapriSun and possibly others already said, whether religion is "needed" is almost beside the point. It's a fundamental human activity. Like cooking or relationships, we sometimes get it horribly wrong, and some people have a healthier approach than others. In terms of historical and societal impact, we probably lay too much blame and credit at its feet. You can't carve Christianity out of the social milieu of medieval Europe and say, "Now the Crusades won't happen" or "Now society will unravel," because the society would still be full of humans, inclined to cooperate, but only so much, and to destroy each other, but only so much. Religion is inextricably bound up in the fabric of human civilization.

I agree. And to take it further, if you deleted every religion from history I think you'd still see humans doing pretty much the same things they do now. Hence it is unnecessary.

Originally Posted by Mark75

I agree. And to take it further, if you deleted every religion from history I think you'd still see humans doing pretty much the same things they do now. Hence it is unnecessary.

You can say the same about art or dancing--people DO say the same about art and dancing, especially when writing school budgets. Again, to talk about whether it is "necessary" is absurd. What in our culture is needed? It's a part of us, useful to many, and cannot be isolated and extracted from our culture(s) in any case.

Fear of death is only a response to a perceived lack of achievement.

Originally Posted by Pheenix

Fear of death is only a response to a perceived lack of achievement.

Every environmental acquisition system of a living organism if for the express purpose of maintaining and promoting the life of the organism. The human mind is such a system. Fear of death is therefore "right psychology" and is complimentary to "love of life."

Originally Posted by Taosaur

You can say the same about art or dancing

I could and I often do.

Originally Posted by Mark75

I could and I often do.

That's a shame.

Originally Posted by Mark75

I could and I often do.

So that explains it; you're just a killjoy.

Religion is about as important as you want it to be e.g
"god is my everything, i don't know where i would be without him"
"i don't need god to rule my life, i do what i want to do"

one man's trash is another man's treasure

Originally Posted by AustralianFire

Religion is about as important as you want it to be e.g
"god is my everything, i don't know where i would be without him"
"i don't need god to rule my life, i do what i want to do"

one man's trash is another man's treasure

Just like World of Warcraft.

Originally Posted by Mark75

Just like World of Warcraft.

touché