Thread: Is it possible to argue about God?

People do tend to be pretty passionate about the side they're on. I don't blame them though (unless they're totally out of line), because it's a pretty serious and thought-provoking topic.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Without getting the topic closed? Apparently not.

Some people come on here and actually get angry and aggressive because some people are arguing for creationism and for God... what do people expect on a religion/spirituality forum? It's like stepping into a church and totally flipping out at the preacher because he is talking about Jesus and God and creationism. And then the police comes in and closes down the church because some hooligans keep on insutling the preacher. What the hell is going on on these forums?

"Is it possible to argue about God without the topic being closed."

I won't name names, but some people lack the cognitive abilities to have decent debates. I don't think passion (as Puffin said) has anything to do with it.

Everyone is capapble of decent debate. Babies can learn up to 3 languages simultanously, so every single human is naturally good at language.

Anyway, if you believe someone is not capable of decent debate, why debate with that person in the first place?

Originally Posted by Puffin

People do tend to be pretty passionate about the side they're on. I don't blame them though (unless they're totally out of line), because it's a pretty serious and thought-provoking topic.

Exactly. Passion and anger indiciate that there is some interesting argumetnation going on. So why close the topic? That is just lame.

There's a fine line between simply presenting information or points and taking jabs or being offensive (which often comes from passion and the lack of actual evidence, in which they resort to rude or inappropriate measures), though.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Everyone is capapble of decent debate.

Looking at the two recently closed threads in R/S, it would appear not everyone is as capable as you claim them to be.

Babies can learn up to 3 languages simultanously, so every single human is naturally good at language.

I'm not sure what language has to do with this.

Anyway, if you believe someone is not capable of decent debate, why debate with that person in the first place?

I don't. I usually just end up trolling them for being stupid.

Exactly. Passion and anger indiciate that there is some interesting argumetnation going on. So why close the topic? That is just lame.

No, it means people are yelling at each other and nothing productive is taking place. It's not lame, it's putting an end to madness.

Originally Posted by Puffin

There's a fine line between simply presenting information or points and taking jabs or being offensive (which often comes from passion and the lack of actual evidence, in which they resort to rude or inappropriate measures), though.

Lol so true. But that is no reason to close down my topics tho. I can't do anything about other people their behavior.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

I'm not sure what language has to do with this.

As a creationist, it probably thinks (like most other creationists) that persuading others that something is true is the same as making it true. This is because they don't actually care what's true, they just care what other people think. There's a lot more detail to be had on this by actually listening to their arguments. They'll often say things like "The philosophy that comes from evolution" and "if you don't believe that every person is a unique creation of god then you'll be mean to them" and other such bullshit. They're not arguing against evolution, they're often arguing against believing in evolution.


This sequence is laugh out loud funny sometimes.

He goes really soft on her and just sort of gives her rope to hang herself.

This video has my new favorite argument for creationism in it. Get this. We are all unique. There is slight variation in all us and so god made each of us uniquely. The means that evolution must not have occurred. Bonus points to anyone that explains why that's complete idiocy.

Debating opposing opinions is one thing.

Having a virtual bitch-fest and straying miles off topic to attack the person personally; calling each other names, and just generally regressing back to what amounts to a 10 year old's "well you're a stupid head" is not my idea of a mature debate. If you want to have a pissing contest, do it in PM. If you want to do it public, it will gain the attention of the staff. If a staff member thinks the thread should be closed, it will be closed. If the rest of the staff thinks that the thread was closed prematurely, it will be re-opened. If people don't want to go through "all that," then they need to learn how to either have a respectful, tempered debate, or take the high road and bow out, if the other person just refuses to be reasonable (and that doesn't just consist of being "mean," but also point-dodging and other evasive acts which do nothing to progress the discussion).

Period.
Case closed.
End of story.

@PhilospherStoned: You just keep pretending that I'm a creationist, while I keep saying I'm not. I'm an evolutionary creationist. Big difference

I believe in evolution, but where evolution theory stops, for me, creationism starts. So you believe in A, and I believe in A + B. There is not much difference between our beliefs at all.

@Oneironaut: Totally agreed, but the insulting was completely one sided. Also, that topic you closed was indeed over the top I can't argue with that.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

@Oneironaut: Totally agreed, but the insulting was completely one sided. Also, that topic you closed was indeed over the top I can't argue with that.

So if I look over that thread I won't be able to find a post where you said another member was behaving like a 'bitch'?

I'm going to ask you to stop your habitual lying and evasion, otherwise this thread will be closed just as quickly.

I said you were crying like a little bitch. For the rest I didn't say anything insultive at all. Whereas you insult me pretty much each post. Big difference.

Again you're calling me a habitual liar, your insulting has again started. Why can't you treat me with some respect? Is it so hard?

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

I said you were crying like a little bitch. For the rest I didn't say anything insultive at all. Whereas you insult me pretty much each post. Big difference.

Again you're calling me a liar, your insulting has again started.

No, the insult was not directed at me. The fact you can't even keep track of who you insulted hardly speaks in your favour, does it?

Yet again you're refusing to accept the conditions of conduct and lying even more.

Once more: no more insulting other members, no more lying. This of course applies to everybody but as this is your thread and already you are ignoring the rules that have been lain down, I'm saying it to you in person. No foul play, or this gets locked.

Haha but you're the one who just insulted me be calling me a habitual liar. Also it was directed at you at first, but then I edited my post, I couldn't decide between you or Marvo. You can check the edit logs and see that I'm speaking the truth.

http://www.dreamviews.com/f37/why-ch...ch#post1587001

On top of that I apoligized and took it back. Did you?

Again you're insulting me by saying "the fact you can't keep track who you insulted hardly speaks in your favor". To me this is insultive behavior. Everyone can make a mistake, however, I didn't in this case.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

Haha but you're the one who just insulted me be calling me a habitual liar. Also it was directed at you at first, but then I edited my post, I couldn't decide between you or Marvo. You can check the edit logs and see that I'm speaking the truth.

Calling somebody a liar is not an insult though.

And good job insulting both of us then, I guess. Not that I care.

It's not an insult; we've established that it is a fact that you just lied to Oneironaut, and I'm asking you to stop. In return you can expect the same conduct from everybody else in this thread.

Last chance to agree, buddy.

We consistently have debates in R/S that don't get locked. The ones where Chayba participates do. Obviously there is a correlation. Debating religion is not the problem. It's dealing with extremely arrogant and close-minded (yes this is an appropriate time to use that word) members like Chayba that inevitably frustrates everybody. This isn't a personal attack, I'm just responding to the topic in the OP.

Chayba, you claim to be scientifically minded, but that couldn't be further from the truth. You make up your own science in your head and completely ignore the hundreds of years of work of real dedicated scientists. I don't even think you could pass a high school biology exam. You completely make up things that other posters say and put words in their mouth. You consistently pretend that you've never said things even though they can be found a few posts above. And then you play all high and mighty and innocent like if the world is against you. You say we haven't replied to your questions when there are threads with 10 pages of replies. You say you're just replying to people when you post the exact same stuff, word for word, in every thread in reply to no one. Literally every thread you post in gets derailed. It is impossible to have a proper debate with you.

I got a good solution. Put me on ignore. Problem solved. Everybody happy

It's not a pleasure I'm entitled to.

That's why I'm asking you (again) not to behave in a way that will necessitate you being put on people's ignore lists in the first place. How's that solution?

I can ignore you but I can't make other people ignore you. And since you so easily derail any thread you post in with your repetitive nonsense and arrogant demeanor, I would prefer it if you just stopped posting.

.

Behave in what way exactly? I only insulted once, and then I directly apologized. Whereas other people, including you, are insulting me all the time, and have never apologized. And then you say that my behavior is the problem?

Apparently, we cannot agree. Let's agree to disagree. You keep saying it is impossible to debate with me, so simply do not debate with me? Problem solved.

Anyway if you guys really want me to stop posting that badly, I will, against my own will, no longer reply to your posts, as you wish. If I'm doing you a favor that way, then it's my pleasure.

Originally Posted by ChaybaChayba

You keep saying it is impossible to debate with me, so simply do not debate with me? Problem solved.

That won't stop you from derailing other threads.

Why are you talking to me you just said you didn't want me to post anymore? What is it now? You want me to post or not? If you do not want me to post anymore, like you just siad yourself, why do you keep replying to my posts? Or are you only allowed to post and reply to me, and I'm not allowed to post back? Is that how it is?

Do you not see the irony here of arguing against me that you don't want to argue against me?

Personally, I think you all just need to leave each other alone.

Chayba, you have a tendency to provoke skepticism and dissent, because you are constantly posting things to spark the "Belief vs. Disbelief" argument. Then, when you get the dissent you called for, you tend to make invalid points, and dance around certain issues. I can not speak for every post you've made. I'm only talking about what I've seen of you, so far. To your defense, though, I think many of the remarks made by the "skeptics" on this forum reek of disgust and disrespect. Of course, they feel their sharp tongues are justified, because there is some innate sense of pride (often inflated) that comes with being a skeptic. Many people wear their skepticism as a badge of "logic and reason," and so any chance to put a "believer" in his/her place is a "hooray, for being my being smart," and they tend to wear it on their sleeves.

I think there are quite a few people here who need to work on their people skills, if they expect to maintain a healthy debate...and there is plenty of blame to go around.

Of course I provoke dissent and skepticism. I believe in and talk about God. In order not to provoke and spark "Belief vs Disbelief", I would have to stop talking about God. But isn't the whole point of the Religion/Spirituality forum to talk about God?