Thread: Anybody else been questioning their commitment to their religion?

If feel as though many people misrepresent Buddhism when really it is much more nihilistic than people realize. The goal is not to be "connected" but instead to disconnect with reality(which they believe to be an illusion ie. maya), from social relations, customs, and habitually thinking, all of which are the causes of suffering.

Keep in mind Im not saying Buddhism is bad, I too benefit from certain Buddhist practices like meditation and skepticism but not others such as asceticism and certain fundamental beliefs. You can practice whatever religion you want and still adapt certain Buddhist practices. I also love Buddhist Koans which are reminiscent of Socratic skepticism, although Buddhism preceded Socrates. Dannon Onierenoit made a great post in the science section about how Buddhism and Socrates share many similar beliefs.

YES this is what i was talking about. Do you think it would go against my religion in any way to continue to practice all of these things?

What religion are you in the first place? Most likely a denomination of Christianity and if so I don't think it will conflict. The first commandment says do not worship any other gods besides (Jesus and his dad but they are the same dude so ya). There are no gods in Buddhism so you are clear on that one. Buddhism also teaches the importance of a vegetarian diet which will benefit you morally as well as keeping you healthy so that is a plus. As far as I know Buddhism and Christianity are pretty compatible.

ok thats good because i am a christian and i live in south Georgia which in case you didnt know is a very very close minded part of the country.

Thanks for clearing that up for me

I live in the dirty south as well so its something Ive gotten used to over the years. Do some research for yourself (I'm neither a Buddhist or an expert on the subject) try the book "Zen to Go" which is a book consisting of quotes from Buddhist thinkers as well as philosophers. If you are interested in philosophy try Schopenhauer, Hegel, or Goethe all of whom are heavily influenced by Eastern thought.

Also: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/buddha/

Originally Posted by stormcrow

If feel as though many people misrepresent Buddhism when really it is much more nihilistic than people realize. The goal is not to be "connected" but instead to disconnect with reality(which they believe to be an illusion ie. maya), from social relations, customs, and habitually thinking, all of which are the causes of suffering.

Yeah, Buddhism is not the most happy-feel-good-love-everyone-and-everything practice, at least not the way other people have presented it to me. I find it empty and cold actually. The basic jist in my opinion is, everything is suffering, therefore escape everything.

While I can agree with Buddhism on the illusionary nature of everything, I don't consider the illusionary nature of everything to be suffering. And the need to escape everything? I consider it a fear of existing. While Buddhism does a good job illustrating the God-like nature of the human consciousness, it doesnt do the best job illustrating that such a god has no need to fear anything. (and again based on the people who have illustrated buddhism to me). And therefore no need to fear being human, living human, and therefore no need to escape anything, because there is nothing to escape from.

You feel a connection, go with it.

Are you afraid this will go against Christianity? Here are some biblical things to consider. God is omnipresent. In other words, youll find God in a tree as much as youll find God in Jesus. I dont know if all the bibles say it, because there are so many versions out there. But there is a verse somewhere in one of these bibles that says - lift a stone and you will find God. Because God is within everything, biblically speaking. This is further illustrated again when Jesus says that Kingdom of Heaven is within you. God, in the bible is in heaven. And Jesus just told you where God is. (in you)

Jesus himself prays that you recognize your oneness with God. And if God is omnipresent, wouldnt you agree that this oneness with God is the connection with everything?

Its a shame we have this thing called Church completely distorting Jesus true teachings

Originally Posted by juroara

Yeah, Buddhism is not the most happy-feel-good-love-everyone-and-everything practice, at least not the way other people have presented it to me.

So far so good.

I find it empty and cold actually.

In the same way that you probably find science empty and cold?

The basic jist in my opinion is, everything is suffering, therefore escape everything.

Everything is not suffering. The best statement of the First Noble Truth is (IMO) "Suffering exists in life."

Do you disagree?

While I can agree with Buddhism on the illusionary nature of everything, I don't consider the illusionary nature of everything to be suffering.

Neither do most Buddhists that I respect. I'm excluding new-agers that will claim support for anything that they want from any source that they want. Reality isn't an illusion because of quantum mechanics. It's merely reality as we percieve it that we are forced to conclude is the illusion. Not even that is necessary for Buddhist thought though.

And the need to escape everything? I consider it a fear of existing.

The "need to escape everything" is an aversion which is one of the causes of suffering. So again, Buddha said nothing of the sort.

While Buddhism does a good job illustrating the God-like nature of the human consciousness,

The Second Noble Truth is best summed up by saying that "Our attractions and aversions are the root cause of us perceiving ourselves to be suffering". i.e. "We are responsible for our own suffering". That doesn't sound very "god like" to me. If you want to believe (are attracted to the notion) that you're a god/dess, that's fine. Don't be surprised when the divergence of your cravings from reality causes suffering though. After all, that's the Second Noble Truth.

it doesnt do the best job illustrating that such a god has no need to fear anything. (and again based on the people who have illustrated buddhism to me).

Fear is just an aversion and is therefore the origin our perception ouf our own suffering. I'll try to stifle my surprise that the Buddha's teachings have gone entirely over the heads of the people that you run around with.

And therefore no need to fear being human, living human, and therefore no need to escape anything, because there is nothing to escape from.

Except the fact that we're all a bunch of stupid, hairy monkeys that are going to rot in the ground one day. Unless of course you shave and believe that you're a god/dess, divine star child, above even the angels, etc...

Its a shame we have this thing called Church completely distorting Jesus true teachings

True dat. It's a true shame that the words somebody that was almost definitely heavily influence by the Buddhist missionaries that we know made it as far as Iraq had his words so heavily distorted or Europeans probably would never have become the world's worst savages. Fortunately, the Buddha died of old age and developed a massive following that recorded pretty much his every word. Over in India, the teachings were well preserved.

You should actually read them instead of listening to stupid new-agers. They almost never get anything right.

Originally Posted by yesac5678

Ever since I have been practicing lucid dreaming, meditation, and astral projection I have felt a strong pull towards Buddhism. I am 100% sure that my religion I am committed to is correct but Buddhism just makes a lot more sense and when I am meditating I do feel a really strange connection to everything around as if everything is connected somehow which, and correct me if i'm wrong, is one of the beliefs involved with Buddhism. I was just wondering if anyone else was having these feelings.

You should investigate as much as you can anyway. It doesn't mean to necessarily propose worship outside of your original faith but it's good to see what others out there are saying and what they believe. Get acclimated to everything don't limit yourself to understanding just one area of belief.

Originally Posted by stormcrow

Most likely a denomination of Christianity and if so I don't think it will conflict. The first commandment says do not worship any other gods besides (Jesus and his dad but they are the same dude so ya).

and no stormcrow God and Jesus are NOT the same "dude".

I would present the question:
Why look to others to determine what makes sense to you?
I encourage you to explore all possibilities, factor in what makes sense to you, and formulate your own ideas as to the nature of existence and the deity.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

and no stormcrow God and Jesus are NOT the same "dude".

The holy trinitry? Three personas of one god?

The holy trinitry states that jesus is not the father, but he is god, as is the father, and the holy spirit.

If you do not believe in this concept, your religion is either polytheistic or Jebus and the holy spirit are not God.

Originally Posted by yesac5678

Ever since I have been practicing lucid dreaming, meditation, and astral projection I have felt a strong pull towards Buddhism. I am 100% sure that my religion I am committed to is correct but Buddhism just makes a lot more sense and when I am meditating I do feel a really strange connection to everything around as if everything is connected somehow which, and correct me if i'm wrong, is one of the beliefs involved with Buddhism. I was just wondering if anyone else was having these feelings.

Buddhism is Atheism with icing on the cake.

Originally Posted by JussiKala

The holy trinitry? Three personas of one god?

The holy trinitry states that jesus is not the father, but he is god, as is the father, and the holy spirit.

If you do not believe in this concept, your religion is either polytheistic or Jebus and the holy spirit are not God.

These two possibilities that you have stated are not the only two possibilities that exist.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

Buddhism is Atheism with icing on the cake.

Im not saying abandoning Christianity but just practicing meditation and astral projection, which seem to be a big part of Buddhism. So instead of becoming Buddhist im just asking if it would go against my religion to practice meditation and astral projection.

Well in the catholic faith it is taught that Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are one entity which is called the Holy Trinity as Jussikala said.
Also to contribute to what Philospherstoned said about causing our own suffering I wanted to add this little Koan on the subject.

"Just as rust arising from iron
eats away the base from which it arises,
even so, their own deeds
lead transgressors to states of woe."

Also I just wanted to add this because I think it is beautiful.

"When we contemplate the whole globe as one great dewdrop, striped and dotted with continents and islands, flying through space with other stars all singing and shining together as one, the whole universe appears as an infinite storm of beauty."

It depends on who you ask, and you know it.
Some Christians will tell you that even pie goes against Christianity.

Originally Posted by sloth

It depends on who you ask, and you know it.
Some Christians will tell you that even pie goes against Christianity.

Yes but Catholicism is the true denomination of Christianity...

Originally Posted by stormcrow

Yes but Catholicism is the true denomination of Christianity...

The true Scotsman, you mean.
I really can't tell if you're TRYING to be funny here, or not.

Originally Posted by sloth

The true Scotsman, you mean.
I really can't tell if you're TRYING to be funny here, or not.

I wasn't necessarily trying to be funny but granted I do have a lame ass sense of humor.

Originally Posted by yesac5678

So instead of becoming Buddhist im just asking if it would go against my religion to practice meditation and astral projection.

No.

You're welcome.

AFAIK most protestant churches also teach the trinitry. I grew up in an evangelical lutheran community, though nobody I spoke to regularly, including my family, was really religious at all.

Buddhism has no beliefs, we just follow what is. Except I shouldn't say we cause I ain't no Buddhist.

But Buddhism really isn't a religion. People practice it as one because they want a sense of community and morality and the like weird rituals and all that, but it's really not one. It's just a path to awakening, a practice of mindfulness. If you practice mindfulness, you will see that you are connected with everything, that this world is deterministic. You will see that you create you're own suffering, and that you can stop doing this.

You don't have to believe in anything, and I would encourage you to hold no beliefs, just see thing as they are.

Originally Posted by stormcrow

If feel as though many people misrepresent Buddhism when really it is much more nihilistic than people realize. The goal is not to be "connected" but instead to disconnect with reality(which they believe to be an illusion ie. maya), from social relations, customs, and habitually thinking, all of which are the causes of suffering.

Keep in mind Im not saying Buddhism is bad, I too benefit from certain Buddhist practices like meditation and skepticism but not others such as asceticism and certain fundamental beliefs. You can practice whatever religion you want and still adapt certain Buddhist practices. I also love Buddhist Koans which are reminiscent of Socratic skepticism, although Buddhism preceded Socrates. Dannon Onierenoit made a great post in the science section about how Buddhism and Socrates share many similar beliefs.

In buddhism you don't try to do anything. You are already are connected with everything, even delusion. You just open your eyes and see what is.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

True dat. It's a true shame that the words somebody that was almost definitely heavily influence by the Buddhist missionaries that we know made it as far as Iraq had his words so heavily distorted or Europeans probably would never have become the world's worst savages. Fortunately, the Buddha died of old age and developed a massive following that recorded pretty much his every word. Over in India, the teachings were well preserved.

I've actually heard that his words were not recorded(this coming from a Zen Roshi who(m?) I respect) and that he didn't even teach in Sanskrit or Pali. I really don't know so I should probably keep my mouth shut, but the guy said that the teachings were passed by word of mouth until about 400 years after his death. He was saying this in response to thervadens who believed the Dharma was only the words of Buddha, saying we really don't even know what they were exactly. His point is that the Dharma is in everything, it is right in front of your face so open your eyes. It is even there in your mind when you are stuck in the cycle of self clinging and desire. Just see it, see what is. WAKE UP ALREADY GODDAAMMMMMITT.

PhilosopherStoned is correct to direct everyone to the Four Noble Truths, as the Buddha Sakyamuni frequently said they are the whole of his teachings, and no, nothing in them necessarily conflicts with Christianity. I'll just address some specific misconceptions:

Originally Posted by stormcrow

There are no gods in Buddhism so you are clear on that one.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

Buddhism is Atheism with icing on the cake.

False. Traditional Buddhism recognizes 31 planes of existence, often simplified to the six realms of deities, demigods, humans, animals, ghosts and demons. Vajrayana Buddhism also employs an array of meditation deities, and many Buddhists are also Universalists.

My approach is that gods exist every bit as much as you, me, the sun, or my desk chair: somewhat, but not particularly.

Originally Posted by stormcrow

Buddhism also teaches the importance of a vegetarian diet which will benefit you morally as well as keeping you healthy so that is a plus.

False. The Buddha advised his followers not to kill animals or cause them to be killed, but held firmly, in the face of strong criticism, that obtaining meat already butchered simply does not involve one karmically in the animal's death. Causality doesn't flow backwards. Some Buddhists and even whole sanghas may adopt vegetarianism voluntarily, but excessive emphasis upon it is a spiritual red herring.

Originally Posted by stormcrow

If feel as though many people misrepresent Buddhism when really it is much more nihilistic than people realize. The goal is not to be "connected" but instead to disconnect with reality(which they believe to be an illusion ie. maya), from social relations, customs, and habitually thinking, all of which are the causes of suffering.

I can see where you're getting these ideas, but there are so many things wrong with what you just said. The goal is absolutely to be in touch with reality, just not reality as we normally perceive it. The OP's vague idea that "everything is connected somehow" is considerably more on point than terming Buddhism "nihilist." The idea of dependent origination (a.k.a. interdependent co-arising) of all phenomena was Sakyamuni's chief reformation of the Brahmanic approach to karma and rebirth.

Yes, he taught renunciation for his monks and nuns, and certainly emphasized monasticism for anyone serious about liberation, but he did also provide teachings for laity which did not include running away from home. If the Buddha's awakening was "nihilist," he would simply have popped out of existence under the bodhi tree, not walked the length and breadth of northern India for fifty years engaging the people.

no, im atheist.

Originally Posted by stonedape

I've actually heard that his words were not recorded(this coming from a Zen Roshi who(m?) I respect) and that he didn't even teach in Sanskrit or Pali. I really don't know so I should probably keep my mouth shut, but the guy said that the teachings were passed by word of mouth until about 400 years after his death. He was saying this in response to thervadens who believed the Dharma was only the words of Buddha, saying we really don't even know what they were exactly. His point is that the Dharma is in everything, it is right in front of your face so open your eyes. It is even there in your mind when you are stuck in the cycle of self clinging and desire. Just see it, see what is. WAKE UP ALREADY GODDAAMMMMMITT.

I've heard about that same time frame. I don't really distinguish between "recorded" as being written down and "recorded" as being committed verbatim to memory and being transmitted that way. Thats why there is so much repitition in the Pali Canon. It's a traditional mechanism to aid with memorization.

It's absolutely true that the Dharma is everywhere and in all things. Still, you presumably respect the Zen Roshi because s/he sees it more clearly than you?

At any rate, you're right. This is one of the reasons that I favor the Thervada focus on one Buddha. The one should suffice and a lot that came after just added more mystical nonsense.

Originally Posted by Taosaur

False. Traditional Buddhism recognizes 31 planes of existence, often simplified to the six realms of deities, demigods, humans, animals, ghosts and demons. Vajrayana Buddhism also employs an array of meditation deities, and many Buddhists are also Universalists.

It's fairly easy to dismiss most of that if we recall that Buddha was addressing a hindu society that expected weird shit. None of that stuff is really essential.