Heaven is not the afterlife

**Unelias** · 10-13-2011 02:24 PM

"The gods have never bothered much about judging the souls of the dead, and so people only go to hell if that's where they believe, in their deepest heart, that they deserve to go. Which they won't do if they don't know about it. This explains why it is so important to shoot missionaries on sight."

**Original Poster** · 10-13-2011 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

You're free to interpret the bible however you want. But that line does not mean what you think it means.

**Prancingwolf** · 10-13-2011 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

He'd still see a being of light, he just wouldn't think it's Jesus, necessarily.

I didn't get to spend anytime at all with my grandfather. Just when I was 2 or something my mother tells me. My Grandmother was an evil women who liked to isolate people and take all their money. They divorced after like 30 years or something. She did the same with my great-grandmother. Stuffed her in a nursing home where no one could get to her and took all her money. Makes me kinda sad because my Grandfather live til I was like 10. We had a lot of the same interests too, so my mom tells me. He collected coins too.

Well, enough of that I'm going off topic...

**Xei** · 10-16-2011 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

How? The father(God) is in heaven and the only way to get there is to believe in Jesus Christ as the lord and Savior of humanity.

Sorry, you're a dumbass. That is your preconceived interpretation of the quote. It is 100% consistent with the idea that Heaven is not the afterlife... it doesn't even mention heaven you dolt.

Try again, or admit that your faith isn't even based on the Bible.

**Ne-yo** · 10-17-2011 12:56 AM

Not only is Atheism a faith it's a blind one at that. Xei you better sniff the crap you're shoveling and wake up and face some reality for once in your life.

**Original Poster** · 10-17-2011 02:12 AM

I find myself siding with Xei because he made none of those accusations in this particular thread. He simply said the bible doesn't refer to heaven as an ethereal kingdom we all go to when we die if we were good little boys and girls... which is true.

**ThePreserver** · 10-17-2011 03:56 AM

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

Not only is Atheism a faith it's a blind one at that. Xei you better sniff the crap you're shoveling and wake up and face some reality for once in your life.

I don't normally mean to be "That guy" but there's another thread for this conversation

http://www.dreamviews.com/f37/athiesm-faith-122890/

**really** · 10-17-2011 07:31 AM

MrBlonde: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

Xei: If that was supposed to be a response to the OP, I hope you realise that you totally failed.

Omnis Dei: You're free to interpret the bible however you want. But that line does not mean what you think it means.

Xei: [...] Sorry, you're a dumbass. That is your preconceived interpretation of the quote. It is 100% consistent with the idea that Heaven is not the afterlife... it doesn't even mention heaven you dolt.

Try again, or admit that your faith isn't even based on the Bible.

What the hell guys!? These are such poor, unhelpful responses. That quote is perfectly relevant. Jesus is the "the way, the truth and the life" as a Savior and following in Jesus' footsteps is concordant with "finding" Salvation. Salvation can be called Heaven. Discovering heaven within (as complemented by Omnis Dei's Jesus quote) is "via" Jesus Christ - the Christ within him, and that means the afterlife is irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

More on the OP: Not only is heaven not an immaterial realm, but baptism is not water dunking. There are many things lost through time.

You going to explain this or what? So heaven is a material realm and baptism is cookie dunking?

**shafri** · 10-17-2011 07:48 AM

heaven is afterlife. this world is just a test. the only heaven nature in this world is when a man and a woman having sex.

**Original Poster** · 10-17-2011 07:48 AM

Baptism is psychedelic anointment. Why do you think Jesus, David and Saul all went into the desert and faced demons after the process?

And Jesus' Paradise is an outline to escape suffering.

**really** · 10-17-2011 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

Baptism is psychedelic anointment. Why do you think Jesus, David and Saul all went into the desert and faced demons after the process?

A bit more background on this or a link? Again not really covering the point.

And Heaven is a way of life.

Did you also say "not immaterial"? I don't understand. Heaven can really be on many levels, but from Jesus' teaching of Heaven you can easily see it as something intangible, even a way of life is dependent on a non-physical orientation.

**Xei** · 10-17-2011 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

Not only is Atheism a faith it's a blind one at that. Xei you better sniff the crap you're shoveling and wake up and face some reality for once in your life.

Reported, your inane troll post doesn't even have any relevance whatsoever to anything in this thread.

**Ne-yo** · 10-17-2011 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by ThePreserver

I don't normally mean to be "That guy" but there's another thread for this conversation

http://www.dreamviews.com/f37/athiesm-faith-122890/

My post has nothing to do with the other thread.

Originally Posted by Xei

Reported, your inane troll post doesn't even have any relevance whatsoever to anything in this thread.

You call someone out their faith and no one can call you out on yours? Get real. If you want to report someone make sure you report yourself for cursing that man out also, loser.

**Xei** · 10-17-2011 04:13 PM

This is a thread about asking people to explain why they think the Bible supports an afterlife, and specifically why they think Heaven refers to the afterlife and not just an Earthly utopia.

Yes, my beliefs are totally and utterly irrelevant to this conversation. If you can't talk intelligently about this, don't talk. Keep your asinine 'atheism is blind faith' debates to the relevant thread.

**Quantiq** · 10-17-2011 04:42 PM

Totally Unnecessary:

Originally Posted by Xei

Sorry, you're a dumbass. That is your preconceived interpretation of the quote. It is 100% consistent with the idea that Heaven is not the afterlife... it doesn't even mention heaven you dolt.

Try again, or admit that your faith isn't even based on the Bible.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

Not only is Atheism a faith it's a blind one at that. Xei you better sniff the crap you're shoveling and wake up and face some reality for once in your life.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

My post has nothing to do with the other thread.
You call someone out their faith and no one can call you out on yours? Get real. If you want to report someone make sure you report yourself for cursing that man out also, loser.

Honestly, arguing your point over the internet like this is a complete waste of time. If you believe you are right and believe that you have intelligence perhaps you have the intelligence and capability to realise that your argument means nothing, especially on the internet.

Discussion is put here for everyone to gain insight into other people's beliefs and develop our own beliefs from others. Not as "convert because I am right" central.

**Ne-yo** · 10-17-2011 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Xei

Yes, my beliefs are totally and utterly irrelevant to this conversation.

Dude, that's not what this thread is about. As if you really care about what people of faith think about Heaven. You created this thread to do just what you're doing now. Once someone who believes in Heaven comments, then you curse them, try and belittle them to make yourself feel better. If you want to talk intelligent conversations then you need to practice what you preach because calling someone a "dumbass" and a "dolt" doesn't appear to be a piece of intelligent conversation. If I were to call you that, you'd have a hissy fit because we know you can't take the same treatment you dish out.

You cursing at members who oppose your views on this board stops here and it stops today.

**Xei** · 10-17-2011 07:32 PM

Totally wrong. I created this thread because I had my suspicions before and they were roused by the mentioned conversation, and it would be highly culturally interesting if the whole concept of Heaven is a total mistake with zero support from the Bible. I called Mr Blonde stupid because he was stupid, he apparently made the huge logical derp of assuming the conclusion to answer the question. I welcome any intelligent input on the OP; if your input is stupid I will be honest and tell you so, and if your input is a totally and utterly irrelevant attempt to drag this thread down into the usual atheism vs. religion shitstorm, go away.

**Ne-yo** · 10-17-2011 09:01 PM

Except you didn't call him stupid. The words may have definitive meanings similar to one another, however, you know one has a much greater intensity for deprecation than the other and most would be fine with a critical 'stupid' than to be cursed at. Anyway I said what I needed to say I'm done with it.

**ThePreserver** · 10-18-2011 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

My post has nothing to do with the other thread.

I understand that it's a post that's unrelated to that thread, but THIS thread has gotten onto a tangent and now basically nothing on here recently has anything to do with Biblical interpretation of the afterlife.

Although that seems to happen to all threads at some point :/

**Ne-yo** · 10-18-2011 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by ThePreserver

I understand that it's a post that's unrelated to that thread

All I ask is that you're consistent ThePreserver. Please go into the following threads and re-post exactly what you've posted to me. Otherwise I would think that you're being biased and one-sided.

This one
This one
This one
This one
And This one

**ThePreserver** · 10-18-2011 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

All I ask is that you're consistent ThePreserver. Please go into the following threads and re-post exactly what you've posted to me. Otherwise I would think that you're being biased and one-sided.

This one
This one
This one
This one
And This one

Touche. I too am guilty of tangentry. I apologize for that last post.

However, atheism isn't a faith, it's simply a lack of belief :/

**really** · 10-18-2011 07:18 AM

Instead of arguing about and against people who spam shit, maybe choose to respond people who are addressing the thread properly instead of ignoring them, and instead ignore obnoxious users.

Thanks.

**TheBuddha** · 10-19-2011 02:22 AM

I (being the Buddha) believe heaven is only a state of mind.

**lidybug** · 01-31-2012 04:46 AM

Every disagreement we have can be tracked back to self. What brings the anger and fear boiling to the surface with hurtful words? When we can react with love and respect as One, we will be existing in heaven on earth.

**mcwillis** · 01-31-2012 05:58 PM

'Heaven' is an inner state of Being or consciousness. 'The Kingdom of Heaven is within,' as Jesus Himself said - Luke 17:21 New Testament. The Kingdom of Heaven is the Spiritual Kingdom, the Kingdom of Souls, the Spiritual Hierarchy of Masters and Initiates, the kingdom immediately above the human. It is entered into through the door of Initiation. It is the consciousness which results from the union of soul and human personality. The mode of achieving that union is meditation which is the means by which the true Being, the Higher self or soul and its reflection - the man or woman in incarnation - are fused together in the soul-infused personality.

There is also another meaning of 'heaven'. Souls not in incarnation spend a greater or lesser length of 'time' (time is a physical-plane concept of the human brain) in Devachan, a state of unending bliss, while awaiting the call to reincarnate. The Christian concept of heaven, while somewhat distorted, relates to this experience.