Thread: Catholic Faith

Wow, didn't know the pope was a Nazi cyborg til earlier today

I saw this fascinating excerpt from a documentary by Louis CK today:

Originally Posted by CloudlessSky

Wow, didn't know the pope was a Nazi cyborg til earlier today

I knew he was once he started, i never liked it.

Originally Posted by Xei

I saw this fascinating excerpt from a documentary by Louis CK today:

do you really have to? it's actually not funny ya know?

Why are you complaining at me? Complain to your local church.

Lightning struck St. Peter's Basilica just hours after the pope announced he was stepping down. Apparently Benny's boss is none to pleased about the shock resignation.

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Originally Posted by Universal Mind

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Enjoy your atheism conceptions while it lasts, for when you die you will no longer be able to say you don't exist, when you experience yourself as still conscious. Then you have a decision, either come out of your delusion once and for all, or go even deeper into delusion and start pretending you are still alive on earth.

The worst part about being an atheist is you don't get to say "I told you so".

Originally Posted by knight31

Enjoy your atheism conceptions while it lasts.

Yeah, the other atheists and I, we all love thinking that our ultimate fate is oblivion. That's why we dogmatically shut our ears to the truth - that we'll have an eternal afterlife of bliss. That makes us uncomfortable.

Bang on, mate.

Originally Posted by Xei

Yeah, the other atheists and I, we all love thinking that our ultimate fate is oblivion. That's why we dogmatically shut our ears to the truth - that we'll have an eternal afterlife of bliss. That makes us uncomfortable.

Bang on, mate.

If you can convince yourself that you will not exist soon. You can escape all your problems through trying to believe that it will soon be over no matter what you do. By taking this stance that everything is chaotic with no real meaning or purpose, and that you are not really alive, just a temporary existing robot, this lifts a great deal of responsibility off your shoulders that you would otherwise have to think about more carefully. If you told yourself that you existed as a person you would have to care about your actions thoughts deeds ect because it would then be apparent that is what you are and what you make of yourself.

From my perspective it is a really pathetic cop out, and from your perspective it is the beneficial view to get an advantage that seems safest. Thing that won't be beneficial or safe is when you move on from your body, and leave years and years of spiritual neglect behind you, of which you should have been doing your work to become more conscious.

It is not a logical or scientific view to suggest you will sometime in the future not experience your own self awareness, there is now tones of literature and cases where patients have known impossible details of things in the hospital at the time their body was officially 'dead'. This is not taking into account the new developments in physics and science that are proving the existence of higher dimensions, and starting to bring together metaphysical concepts that have long being unable to be reconciled with science until now.

Originally Posted by knight31

If you can convince yourself that you will not exist soon. You can escape all your problems through trying to believe that it will soon be over no matter what you do. By taking this stance that everything is chaotic with no real meaning or purpose, and that you are not really alive, just a temporary existing robot, this lifts a great deal of responsibility off your shoulders that you would otherwise have to think about more carefully. If you told yourself that you existed as a person you would have to care about your actions thoughts deeds ect because it would then be apparent that is what you are and what you make of yourself.

From my perspective it is a really pathetic cop out, and from your perspective it is the beneficial view to get an advantage that seems safest. Thing that won't be beneficial or safe is when you move on from your body, and leave years and years of spiritual neglect behind you, of which you should have been doing your work to become more conscious.

It is not a logical or scientific view to suggest you will sometime in the future not experience your own self awareness, there is now tones of literature and cases where patients have known impossible details of things in the hospital at the time their body was officially 'dead'. This is not taking into account the new developments in physics and science that are proving the existence of higher dimensions, and starting to bring together metaphysical concepts that have long being unable to be reconciled with science until now.

So wait: the guys who say that when their brain rots it means their memories and 'self' disappears with it... are the ones doing the wishful thinking?

And the guys who say that when their brain rots the information in it somehow escapes and lives in happiness and bliss forever where God loves you eternally.. are the ones not wishful thinking?

Here's a thought: You're delusional.


Edit: On a second note, I'm gonna call you on it. Please cite peer reviewed sources offering clear indisputable evidence for the continuation of a self in any sense after brain-death. Go on, prove me wrong with your "tones of literature" (which is a phrase making no fucking sense, FYI). I promise you, O faithful, that there is none, and anything you provide I can shoot down. When you die the grey matter (and the illusion you call 'yourself') in your skull turns to a smelly discoloured mush- sorry if my clearly extremely wishful thinking gets to you- and that is, as they say, that.

Edit 2: Okay, Okay, hold the fucking boat for a second. Did you just reference "higher dimensions" as being in any way proof or evidence for the continuation of a collection of electronic impulses which give rise to self consciousness, after the material vehicles for those impulses are destroyed? Firstly: what do you mean? There are other dimensions, sure, there may even be other universes, no problem. How do you jump from that to immediately 'lolsothereforeheavenXD'. Its a fucking joke that you can accuse anyone else ever in any period of time ever ever ever of wishful thinking considering the pseudo-scientific diarrhea that is spewing from you.

Originally Posted by knight31

for when you die you will no longer be able to say you don't exist

Good point.

Originally Posted by knight31

If you can convince yourself that you will not exist soon. You can escape all your problems through trying to believe that it will soon be over no matter what you do. By taking this stance that everything is chaotic with no real meaning or purpose, and that you are not really alive, just a temporary existing robot, this lifts a great deal of responsibility off your shoulders that you would otherwise have to think about more carefully. If you told yourself that you existed as a person you would have to care about your actions thoughts deeds ect because it would then be apparent that is what you are and what you make of yourself.

From my perspective it is a really pathetic cop out, and from your perspective it is the beneficial view to get an advantage that seems safest. Thing that won't be beneficial or safe is when you move on from your body, and leave years and years of spiritual neglect behind you, of which you should have been doing your work to become more conscious.

It is not a logical or scientific view to suggest you will sometime in the future not experience your own self awareness, there is now tones of literature and cases where patients have known impossible details of things in the hospital at the time their body was officially 'dead'. This is not taking into account the new developments in physics and science that are proving the existence of higher dimensions, and starting to bring together metaphysical concepts that have long being unable to be reconciled with science until now.

People generally do not consider themselves robotic automatons, shuffling in and out of every day, escaping their problems by clinging to the position that "it'll all be over soon." Problems must be dealt with in the present or near future, and unless one plans on quickly offing themselves tomorrow, those problems will remain until resolved. The point you don't seem to grasp is that they can be resolved and people can live normal and happy lives even if they don't see any inherent meaning or purpose in the world around them. It's not a significant point of contention; people who want purpose or meaning seek it out (or create it) themselves. The affect of one's actions on others is still considered even in this chaotic picture you've painted. In a nutshell, very few people who agree with Xei would agree with what you've said. And the position is hardly a cop-out. Rather it is a realization that yes, we are temporary, but we need not consider ourselves robots. The phrase "make the most of the time you've got" comes to mind.

Whether it is logical or scientific to take up this position is of course not hindered whatsoever by the wildly questionable and slippery accounts coming from patients able to describe "impossible details" around them when they were either dead or near-death. Perhaps they would be if such accounts were more rigorously explained, but unfortunately they tend not to be. So it's hardly a mark in your favor.

I'm no physicist or mathematician, but even if there are higher dimensions, what makes you think we can experience them either while living or, more to the point, when dead?

Carôusoul

I agree that the brain plays a role in giving access to stored memories, that's a given. As I consider it a receiver of consciousness in this dimension much like the television is a receiver for channels that are broadcasted. But the physical body didn't merely appear out of no-where for no reason. That wouldn't make any sense that DNA encoded or the human body can manifest itself out of nothingness or chaos. It came from a source that had the information already encoded (in consciousness). It's manifestation is only a small aspect of reality that is visibly evident. Even in chemistry it is evident that substances get converted and transmuted into different forms both visible and invisible. Why would it be any different with the human body. The light spectrum and other stimulus such as sound goes beyond what we can see and hear. Just as reality and dimensions go beyond what we can perceive. That is just a reasonable assumption from what we know. You may need your physical body to exist in this specific denser dimensional field (if your mind is weak, there is mythology of monks that create their own bodies in this field and bi-locate at will and more) but shouldn't need it for other dimensions which you move through without it that are of higher vibratory rate which would not be visible from normal physical perception in the body. Also you seem to ignore the fact that matter is merely vibration and motion of energy. There is nothing stopping us from assuming that the decay or entropy of the body is simply a cycle in which our energy body of that dimensional field dissolves forcing our consciousness into the higher vibratory field, like a piece of clothing that wears out that is discarded.

You asked for a source so I'll give you a quick one to be fair. Dr. Ken Ring published a paper in the Journal of Near-Death Studies (Summer, 1993).

Concerning near-death experiencers (NDErs) who, while out of their bodies, observe detailed events occurring far away from their dead body - sometimes hundreds of miles away. But the most profound aspect of such NDEs is how many of these distant out-of-body observations are later verified by third-parties to have actually occurred - a phenomenon called "veridical perception."

Further information on other evidence can be found on this page. Scientific evidence for survival of consciousness after death (which also references a number of books and makes an overall case for the evidence available.

BLUELINE976 you are probably correct that not many people consider themselves a mechanical piece of meat. But that is essentially what an atheist beliefs are suppose to be founded upon. Someone's motivation for believing what they do is anyone's speculation. That was just my possible interpretation of why someone would want to view themselves as little more than flesh.

Here we go...

Ready your sheets! Logical Fallacy Bingo

Originally Posted by SnowyCat

Here we go...

Ready your sheets! Logical Fallacy Bingo

You are really going to need that board to shelter you as long and much as possible. Keep it like a bible at your side as there will be no hiding from the ever creeping tide of truth that is to consume your very foundations shortly. Yes, in the flood of the apocalypse fallacy bingo will be a rare raft before the final surrender. As fallacy bingo itself is used for the inevitable gains amongst the sea of revelations that is to consume old paradigms. The entropy of illusion continues.

Originally Posted by knight31

You are really going to need that board to shelter you as long and much as possible. Keep it like a bible at your side as there will be no hiding from the ever creeping tide of truth that is to consume your very foundations shortly. Yes, in the flood of the apocalypse fallacy bingo will be a rare raft before the final surrender. As fallacy bingo itself is used for the inevitable gains amongst the sea of revelations that is to consume old paradigms. The entropy of illusion continues.

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Originally Posted by knight31

If you can convince yourself that you will not exist soon. You can escape all your problems through trying to believe that it will soon be over no matter what you do.

Good point, I hate the burden of existence, I want it to be over, and that's why I committed suicide yesterday. Oh wait, that's wrong and your argument is hilariously ill thought out.

By taking this stance that everything is chaotic with no real meaning or purpose, and that you are not really alive, just a temporary existing robot, this lifts a great deal of responsibility off your shoulders that you would otherwise have to think about more carefully. If you told yourself that you existed as a person you would have to care about your actions thoughts deeds ect because it would then be apparent that is what you are and what you make of yourself.

And that's why the prison population of atheists is so much lower per capita than that of people who believe in an afterlife? Whoops.

I believe in purpose. I'm a good person and I try to live a good life. What you just said is simply false. You're very ignorant about your fellow humans.

From my perspective it is a really pathetic cop out, and from your perspective it is the beneficial view to get an advantage that seems safest. Thing that won't be beneficial or safe is when you move on from your body, and leave years and years of spiritual neglect behind you, of which you should have been doing your work to become more conscious.

1. Living forever.
2. Dying within a few decades.

Please place a tick next to the above option which is 'safest'.

It is not a logical or scientific view to suggest you will sometime in the future not experience your own self awareness, there is now tones of literature and cases where patients have known impossible details of things in the hospital at the time their body was officially 'dead'.

No, there isn't. I've read a book by somebody who spent a career researching this; he discovered no cases that weren't easily explained. Am I wrong? Then provide evidence.

This is not taking into account the new developments in physics and science that are proving the existence of higher dimensions, and starting to bring together metaphysical concepts that have long being unable to be reconciled with science until now.

You haven't studied physics and you don't know what a dimension is in physics. Am I wrong again? Define it.

I've studied physics but not intensely as I'm still pretty young and have the rest of my life to take care of. Sometimes during my break periods I will use up my time either researching or discussing things like this on a forum but it' only recreation. I only devote a certain amount of my effort to physics when I can my main area is psychology. I can conceive of unlimited parallel universes and dimensions because I don't believe a boundary on reality would make sense in the face of infinite potential and duality. what the big bang involves I have a fair idea. How a 4 dimensional shape is created geometrically I can re-create. I barely understand E=mc2, but enough to verify it's usefulness in some areas. I do realize particles can communicate instantly faster than the speed of light and so conventional physics including the theory of relativity is at best an incomplete theory and does not completely fit the model of other areas of science like quantum studies that have revealed conflicting results.

The Dimensions consist of length, width, depth, height. Density/mass. Motions within these fields produce time that is the highest dimensional field I can conceive of. I suspect black holes are portals to other universes that probably have differently tuned structures and dimensions beyond my understanding. And I suspect that our own universe came from a black hole itself from another universe.

I don't know if that answers your question or not, but it's only the tip of the iceberg.

I've used up my free time now anyway so I cannot afford much longer on this site for a while.

In this context, the number of dimensions of space are the minimum number of directions you need to reach any point in that space. On a piece of paper, it's 2 (e.g. up and down). In the world of our every day experience, it's 3 (e.g. forwards, left, up).

The salient point is that it's just a mathematical property of space. It has nothing to do with an afterlife. Living in 10 spacial dimensions doesn't have any more metaphysical implications than living in 3 or 2 spacial dimensions - which is to say, it has no metaphysical implications at all. There's no more reason to think that this is the case, than there is to think that having 3 fingers on each hand rather than 5 would have metaphysical implications.

I was Catholic until about 13 or 14 and quite staunchly so. I went to Catholic school until I was 18, and all it did was affirm that the likelihood of there being a god was low, and if he did exist, he was the opposite of what that confused church preached.

Originally Posted by knight31

Enjoy your atheism conceptions while it lasts, for when you die you will no longer be able to say you don't exist, when you experience yourself as still conscious. Then you have a decision, either come out of your delusion once and for all, or go even deeper into delusion and start pretending you are still alive on earth.

So Pascal's Wager?

Originally Posted by Xei

In this context, the number of dimensions of space are the minimum number of directions you need to reach any point in that space. On a piece of paper, it's 2 (e.g. up and down). In the world of our every day experience, it's 3 (e.g. forwards, left, up).

The salient point is that it's just a mathematical property of space. It has nothing to do with an afterlife. Living in 10 spacial dimensions doesn't have any more metaphysical implications than living in 3 or 2 spacial dimensions - which is to say, it has no metaphysical implications at all. There's no more reason to think that this is the case, than there is to think that having 3 fingers on each hand rather than 5 would have metaphysical implications.

Afterlife is just another word for functioning without a physical body. The frequency of a wave determines it's state (position/nature) within the dimensional field (that contains all dimensions ect). The periodic table of elements consists not only of varying numbers of protons within the atom ect. The way they re structured, bonded, and move in space, determine their properties. If you could focus your attention to vibrate your body at a certain rate of motion through your conscious will, you could theoretically dissolve your material body into energy beyond the material into light waveforms. Just like the principle of breaking glass through sound waves produces a material effect. Yogis have claimed before to be this to their body. So the concept is not unheard of. It's also the main goal of the esoteric societies and dates back to egypt. It involves alchemy and the main principle is temperance. That is to change alter the current state of things into a particular desired form. From the material point of view that is transmutation of metals.

Whatever your idea of metaphysical is, it does go into that, atleast until you can prove things through your own activity and experience.

Originally Posted by knight31

Enjoy your atheism conceptions while it lasts, for when you die you will no longer be able to say you don't exist, when you experience yourself as still conscious. Then you have a decision, either come out of your delusion once and for all, or go even deeper into delusion and start pretending you are still alive on earth.

Like most cult members, you are just spouting off a bunch of bizarre assertions and not providing even a shred of evidence. Do you have any to present?