Thread: Women’s right to chose

Originally posted by Tsen
DreamTamer, might I suggest taking a logic class. It'd really help your arguments. You bounce around, insulting other's character, without ever actually targeting their reasoning with anything more than quotes read from the Bible. If you're going to use such a book as your argument, explain why you believe what it says. Show your work, like you did back in elementary.

Lol Actually you all are demoted with respect to logic and IQ. Why? Because not one of you actually addressed the original post. Normally the posts are a follow up from the original. If you guys see anything that even remotely suggesting morals or religion you all fly off the handle and go into tangents that are not even related to the original post.
How about addressing the original post with a counter suggestion such as a women’s right to choose is really about making choices and not hiding the abortion issue. Instead the devils deception is working well and I don't know if it’s your logic that’s in the dark or your mind in general.
If you even bothered to read the original post you will see that no one has addressed the original statement.
Origonal Post:
Women’s right to chose
This is a lie from the devil to call it a women’s right to chose. Of course women have the right to choose and so do men. Nether woman or man has a right to kill another human. It’s a cover up to call it the right to choose. It’s a lie because the bottom line is not choosing but murder.

DreamTamer, WAKE THE HELL UP. We HAVE addressed that question. YOU failed to address our counter!

It isn't murder if they baby isn't conscious, capable of thinking, feeling, etc. That was our point. YOU have been dodging our questions. SEVERAL times. Hell, I'll go count 'em for you.

1

Lol Actually you all are demoted with respect to logic and IQ.[/b]

2

One day you will see there is more then the intellect that drives man and then you might cry out for help. Jesus loves all the little children. Have a nice day.[/b]

3

G spoon, you sure seem to have all the answers![/b]

4

I can’t answer for what god does or doesn’t do. [/b]

5

So isn't that what you are? (A lump of cells dividing) Your words. [/b]

Now, admittedly, you almost had your act together for the first two pages. You brought up a point or two, and made half-hearted counters to the opposition's posts. But for the last two pages, you've been consistently avoiding the questions at hand.

Originally posted by universal

If somebody wants to make the point about how a fetus is a potential seat of human consciousness, then I can argue that so is the potential child that I can create with you or your girlfriend. Is my not reproducing with you or your girlfriend murder because of the mind that COULD be created? If that's how it is, then tell Britney Spears and Madonna that they better hurry to my apartment.

On god aborting 1/3 of all pregnancies:

How can you say what god did or did not do?[/b]

Well... it's pretty easy. 30% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. Hence god aborted 30% of all pregnancies.

. Ask a question that is relevant to something and maybe then it can be answered. What a JOKE. The one that is responsible for you and whoever is responsible for your existence must answer to you. Lol [/b]

This is completely relevant, because you seem to think that abortion is immoral/a sin/murder of the innocent. Your god, a supposed moral beacon, is performing more abortions each year than humans are. I'm not asking him to answer for this, as I don't consider abortion to be any of those things you do. I am, however, asking you why you think abortion is so bad when your moral beacon of a deity can do it so prolifically?

And thanks for the complement as well

Lol Actually you all are demoted with respect to logic and IQ. Why? Because not one of you actually addressed the original post.

..
OP:
Women’s right to chose
This is a lie from the devil to call it a women’s right to chose. Of course women have the right to choose and so do men. Nether woman or man has a right to kill another human. It’s a cover up to call it the right to choose. It’s a lie because the bottom line is not choosing but murder. [/b]

We have fully addressed the OP, as we have all found problems with the following:

Statement:
"Neither woman or man has a right to kill another human"

Objections:
- You haven't demonstrated that a group of cells dividing is human
- Neither woman or man has a right to kill but god, a supposed moral beacon, does?

Statement:
"[abortion is] not choosing but murder."

Objections:
- Abortion is no more murder than burning off a mole

I'm sure I missed many objections. I sure know I didn't miss any responses on your part.

-spoon

Spoon:
Well... it's pretty easy. 30% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. Hence god aborted 30% of all pregnancies.
.
I don’t see how you can blame god for the sin that is in the world.

Spoon:
And the "potential for life" is in every sperm cell. Is masturbation as great a sin as abortion?
.
A sperm cell is not conceived so I would have to say no it's not as great a sin.

Originally posted by dreamtamer007
Spoon:
Well... it's pretty easy. 30% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. Hence god aborted 30% of all pregnancies.
.
I don’t see how you can blame god for the sin that is in the world.

Who's sinning? They are aborted/miscarried NATURALLY.

Originally posted by bradybaker

Who's sinning? They are aborted/miscarried NATURALLY.

miscarried NATURALLY
The abortion that the right to chose refers to is not natural.

Cheers to completely missing the point.

Originally posted by bradybaker
Cheers to completely missing the point.

If you say so it must be true. After all you seem to be able to point out even gods or natures faults.
You say its not a sin I say it is. Bye!

Ok, so you're claiming that a natural miscarraige is sin.

Originally posted by as shown here when you
Spoon:
Well... it's pretty easy. 30% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage. Hence god aborted 30% of all pregnancies.
.
I don’t see how you can blame god for the sin that is in the world.

The definition of sin is: "an act that is a transgression of God's will"

First of all, no one is 'acting' to cause the miscarraige, hence the lable, natural. Second of all, anything that happens naturally IS God's will.

Care to rethink your position?

Originally posted by bradybaker
Second of all, anything that happens naturally IS God's will.

Care to rethink your position?

You not only missed my point but your telling me I said something that I did not.
I never said what happens naturally IS Gods Will. Just the opposite. You blame god on 30% abortions because of an act of nature. That is why I said I don't see how you blame it on god. Or did you miss that point?

Spoon:
And the \"potential for life\" is in every sperm cell. Is masturbation as great a sin as abortion?

Dreamtamer:
A sperm cell is not conceived so I would have to say no it's not as great a sin. [/b]

Potential for life is potential for life. The fact that it is conceived or not makes no difference. The better example would be that of women and their eggs, which I mentioned already.

If the potential for life is so important, then if a women lets herself have her period she has committed as grave a sin as abortion, as she could have gone and gotten pregnant - fulfilling the potential life of her egg.

The argument that there is a \"potential for life\" which is so vital lends itself easily to such absurdity. Universal's question (he has the potential to make a baby with britney spears, hence he should be), while seemingly absurd, works on the same logic of your claim that abortion is bad because of this potential.

I never said what happens naturally IS Gods Will. Just the opposite. You blame god on 30% abortions because of an act of nature. That is why I said I don't see how you blame it on god. Or did you miss that point? [/b]

God set out natural laws, one of which seems to be a disturbingly high natural miscarriage rate. This is obviously god's plan, hence he is obviously the biggest abortionist of all time.

If it's not god's plan and it happens anyway, then we come back to the topic of that other thread - god is not omnipotent. In addition to that, you have the problem of evil: why is god, being all powerful, not stepping in an letting all these babies fulfill their potential for life that you seem to think is so important?

So again, why is it so immoral if your god performs this act so prolifically?

-spoon

Originally posted by dreamtamer007

You not only missed my point but your telling me I said something that I did not.
I never said what happens naturally IS Gods Will. Just the opposite. You blame god on 30% abortions because of an act of nature. That is why I said I don't see how you blame it on god. Or did you miss that point?

Give it up man...seriously! How many times do you need things explained to you? I mean how old are you again? Senior citizen right?

God (pun intended), you make me want to puke with your ignorance. Please for the sake of sanity stop your mad dogmatic raving.



----------------------------------------------------------
P.S. - hang in there, the cure for Dementia is right around the corner.

Dreamtamer, hello? Houston calling Dreamtamer. Come in Dreamtamer. Do you read me?

Originally posted by Universal Mind
Dreamtamer, you have completely ignored what I have written. *I told you flat out why I don't think abortion before the third trimester is murder, as have Spoon and Kim. *I am very curious to know what your counter argument to the point is. *All I see you doing is insulting the posters instead of countering the points. *

How can you murder something that has never had a mind? *

As for the soul argument, if I lose part of my fingernail, have I lost part of my soul? *I don't believe in souls, but my understanding of it is that it is a mind. *If your mind doesn't go to Heaven or Hell, then what difference does it make where your soul goes? *We can prove that bodies stay on Earth after death, but most religions say that the sould doesn't, and speak of it as though it is one's consciousness. *If a soul is a person's consciousness, then the \"soul\" does not \"enter\" the body until the third trimester. *I would love to know the counter argument to that point.

Well...

Originally posted by InTheMoment

P.S. - hang in there, the cure for Dementia is right around the corner.

It's called "Death" - and we're all cheering it on.

Cheering it? Hell, I think I might just speed up the process and start beating heads with tire irons. I just haven't decided whether I'll be beating the idiot's heads, or my own. You know, end the suffering.

DreamTamer, you're ignoring the point. GOD created nature. Nature says that 30% of babies are aborted naturally. Therefore, it is quite true that GOD aborted those babies. So why can't we blame them on him? If he didn't do it, he knew it was happening and didn't stop it. Criminal negligence, if you will.

I'm not going to answer any more question because you will believe what you want and there won't be a meeting of the minds. I will however let the scriptures answer them. As I said before god knew you before you were in the womb. You intellects should be able to figure that one out. You speak of logic. Isn’t it logical that I have the advantage of being in your shoes as a non-believer and now have the experience of being in the spirit? You however only can speak from a non-believing point of view. I’m not trying to put anyone down. As a matter of fact I welcome you to ask Christ to come into your life and be saved. You won’t forget your worldly knowledge, just be able to see priorities with much more clarity.

Originally posted by dreamtamer007
As I said before god knew you before you were in the womb..

But he aborts 30% of pregnancies anyway? At least human abortionists stop aborting when the foetus is recognisable as a human (brainwaves etc). If god knows us entirely before he aborts us, then that is murder. He's not cutting off some vaguely defined "potential" that you say human abortionists are, he's deliberately ending a life he knows all the intimate details of already. Classy

-spoon

Were you that good at copping out before you were saved?

What if I tell you nature is not the act of god. God created a perfect world and sin enter in. God said if we don’t praise him he would rise up the rocks to cry out. He can intervene in nature but at the present time the devil is the prince and power over the earth.

Originally posted by bradybaker
Were you that good at copping out before you were saved?

Choping out? My Motorcycle !!!

Originally posted by dreamtamer007
What if I tell you nature is not the act of god. God created a perfect world and sin enter in. God said if we don’t praise him he would rise up the rocks to cry out. He can intervene in nature but at the present time the devil is the prince and power over the earth.

Then I would say that God isn't as powerful as theists like to claim. Or he just doesn't give a shit.

Originally posted by bradybaker

Then I would say that God isn't as powerful as theists like to claim. Or he just doesn't give a shit.

Seriously. This is not Burger King. Have it you way His wisdom is so far above ours that it would be silly to think you can even understand it.

Ah yes, the classic "it's impossible to understand, you have to just believe" argument.

I know that the church asks for a portion of your yearly income...do they take parts of your brain too?

Can you believe some preachers actually say that you are not serving God unless you are giving 10 percent of your income to the church...I just want to slap them for such a "Demand" from above.

And I prefer going to Burger King than church, anyway. No wait, church has free food.