Thread: How I Found God

Originally Posted by Neruo

Are it the Athiests that do not think science is 'part' of god, or do Christians think that god isn't a part of science?

Really, it are the Thiests that allways claim that you can't appoach religion with science. If you have some strong agruments, they very often fall back to: 'oh well, religion goes beyond science' or 'faith is greater then science'.

You can't say that Christians do like science. Afterall, evolution, a theory that has been accepted as a very likely one by allmost all scientists, and even to me -not being a biologist- seems logical, yet Christians defy science by claiming they are right, just 'because god is so great'.

And going to Christian school really explains your 'sudden' vision. Went to a muslim-school and you would now be ranting about Allah. Isn't that a fact?
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FUCK FUCK FUCK THE CHRISTANS!!! IM NOT TALKING ABOUT THEM!

ALL ATHIESTS ARE ARE PEOPLE WHO HATE CHRISTIANS I AM FINDING OUT, I HAVE SAID ABOUT 100 TIMES THIS IS NOT ABOUT CHRISTIANS FOR THE ONE FUCKING HUNDTRETH TIME!

I MEAN DO YOU HEAR ME? ??????????????????????????????????????

oR IS IT THAT ALL ATHIESTS HAVE AGAINST RELIGION IS CHRISTIANS?

GOD SHOWED HIMSELF TO ME IN A FORM I COULD UNDERSTAND, I SAID ABOUT 100 TIMES I NEVER SAID IT WAS THE CHRISTIANS GOD

Athiests are worse than christians when it comes to jamming there thoughts down your thoat wihtout letting you talk

Just because we exist, doesn't mean there is a god. If the only explanation for us existing is that there is a god, what created the god? If there was no world to exist in before the god, then how did he come to exist? To atheists, the idea of any god just "existing" out of nowhere seems as absurd as it seems to you when we say the world may have just "happened" or was always there. As for jamming information down people's throats, check your own posts man and chill out.

Originally Posted by dropout14

FUCK FUCK FUCK THE CHRISTANS!!! IM NOT TALKING ABOUT THEM!

ALL ATHIESTS ARE ARE PEOPLE WHO HATE CHRISTIANS I AM FINDING OUT, I HAVE SAID ABOUT 100 TIMES THIS IS NOT ABOUT CHRISTIANS FOR THE ONE FUCKING HUNDTRETH TIME!

I MEAN DO YOU HEAR ME? ??????????????????????????????????????

oR IS IT THAT ALL ATHIESTS HAVE AGAINST RELIGION IS CHRISTIANS?

GOD SHOWED HIMSELF TO ME IN A FORM I COULD UNDERSTAND, I SAID ABOUT 100 TIMES I NEVER SAID IT WAS THE CHRISTIANS GOD
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lol. Ah I see. My mistake.

So your god isn't even based on a 1940 year old scirpture, that is flawed, but Just on a dream... Ok. Have it your way, actually a dream is a better arguement then doing exactly what your parents did or what they rammed into you as a child.

How does your god look, and what are its morals ect? Just wondering.

-

and

Originally Posted by dropout14

Athiests are worse than christians when it comes to jamming there thoughts down your thoat wihtout letting you talk
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No, only I am more jamming. But I just missed your 'not teh Christian god' part. Christianity really has a monopoly on that word 'god'. Really anoying.

Also, I am in no position to say this, but perhaps not starting with 'fucking atheist' this and 'fucking atheist' that. Just trow in some sarcasm like I do, don't outright 'fucking'.

Okay, Mark, please, listen to what I am asking, and stop dogging the question.

(oh, and just to reply to something you said that I only picked up now [there is no compeling reason to beleive], I want to ask you: Is there any compeling evedence not to beleive? I know you will think this is a stupid question, but it is the same for evolution: there is no comeling evidence to beleive [as I once did] in it either, yet you do. I stoped beleiveing that after I realized the complet lack of evidence, and after all the face evidence Darwin and others "produced" to sapport there clame.)

let us begin again:

What? Do you even remember what the original statement was? I said that god is an invention of a religion I don't believe in.

Yet millions of people dont beleive that, so what makes it true? What makes you say that? So far, you have just said "its a given".

...

No, it isn't.

For my sake, please tell me why you said that? Who told you, or did you come up with it yourself?

You asked me how I knew that, and the answer is so painfully obvious that I'm not even going to waste my time.

This is the thing: I want to know why you say God is illigical. So far, you have just said it is a given. If it is a given, then why didn't Sir Isaac Newton, James Clerk Maxwell, Michael Faraday, George Washington Carver, Robert Boyle and many others (dont want to fill a page) didn't see it. If they didn't see it, how do you expect me to have seen it? It has nothing to do with education, as you said it is logic, something that isn't improved by science. So tell me, why is God a logical adserdity?

Blue, If he doesn't answer, could you please explain to me, because this is getting reduculas.

Yes, it does. This was covered in the latter half of that paragraph.

I cant find what you mean ... unless it is the illogical part ...

It's what's known as a logically fallacy (i.e. frickin' nonsense).

... what? It is illogical to assume that if the universe has not always existed then it was created by God? How is that a logical falacy.

okay then, answer this so that I might understand your view on this: If the Universe has not always existed, and is stedily lossing all its energy (implying that if it has always existed it has been lossing energy from its ... finit? ... past, and originaly had more then an its current amount of energy ... you see where I am going with this?), then how could it have come into being?

Why do you have to keep rewording the same question? I'm just going to copy and paste my answer every time unless you can point to some fault in my reasoning.

pritty much a repete performance of the above

What!? You still haven't posted that?! Hahahaha! Whatever happened to "If I don't post it by the end of the month(last month), you can call me a liar"

I said that if I dont post some of my evidence (wich I did) by the end of the month then everyone could ignore me.

Good memery, though.

or whatever you said? Yeah, I can state all kinds of "facts", too, watch:

FACT: I am a ninja
FACT: Everything the colour yellow will turn into a portal to another dimension in 1000 years
FACT: The silverware in my kitchen comes alive at night\

That might be true. However, I was stating a fact that there is evidence for God.

I don't. I've been copying and pasting because you've not been asking anything new nor addressing my points properly.

I appologize, and I will answer all your questions if I am able. Now, if you have a summerized list, PM them to me and I will inclood then in my Science prooves God thread. Yes, I is still running, and yes, I am going to post my points soon, but I have a lot of things on my plate right now, and I cant do it all immidiatly.

Just be patent. I have already stated that We will post it at the end of this month or the begining of the next one.

Opinions have nothing to do with it. I was either correct or not. It was a factual statement.

You asked it there was a problim, I said yes. Now ...

YES!

... You said:
a) Because god is an invention of a religion I don't believe in.

b) Because the idea of god is illogical.

c) Because there's no compelling reason nor evidence to suggest that there is.

now, the answers:

a) That is your assumption, and not based on fact. It is your personal opinion, and not one shaired by Sir Issac Newton and many others. Can you proove that it is? If you can (and not just the opinion of someone else) then this question would be valid. But it isn't

b) I ask you again: why? Just saying it iis means Jack. In your own words "that statment alone means nothing". You wont win a debat like that.

c) Nore is there evidence against God. (God, not religion). I have not been given any evidence that the Dodo existed. Nothing commpeling in the least. I also have no evidence that there was not one, but to world wars. Can you tell me it is illogical to beleive that they happend?

Hahaha, you've gotta be joking. I've said that about ten times. There's no way you're serious. This must be some kind of joke. Unless...

... Dude, No, you havn't. You just spouted your opinion and refused to back it up, not even claming that you were getting your evidence ready, but blatently saying that you wouldn't.

If this was a debat being modderated, you would have lost.

Nirvana Starseed? Is that you?

who?

Now, Blue, I think I need to say this out in the open, so you understand what I am trying to do, and not just making an assumption

Religion requires, at SOME point, a leap of faith. A jump from reasoning to belief that does not involve logic or rationality.

This is my main gripe with Christians and religious people in general. There are TWO types of "believers". The logos - those that arrive at their faith via logic; and the mythos - those that arrive at their faith through this "leap of faith". Those for which, faith by nature is contradictory to, in spite of, or SEPERATE from reason.

I have NO problem with religious people of the "Mythos" variety. Religious people who acknowledge that their faith is seperate from logic, reason, and evidence, are FINE by me. Because that way, THEY know where they're coming from, and they proclaim the nature of their faith as seperate from reason.

It is believers who purport to be of the "Logos" variety that piss me off. Faith neccessitates a leap of faith. Faith cannot be logical. What annpoys me is that some people, such as you, Keeper - make this leap of faith, but then retrospectively try to reason their beliefs. Beliefs which, by nature, cannot be reasoned.

I see here that you do not understand what I am doing.

Blue, I have heard so many athiests say that Science "prooves" that God is a figmant of the imagination, and that the Bible violats scientific facts.

They are talking about something wich is completly false.

They say that science dinghs God, yet offer no real explination as to why so many scientists beleive.
They say that the Bible is full of errors, yet refuse to reply when I show them it is not, or say it is bieng "taken out of context" when it is they that warp scripture out of context.
THey say so many things, and make so many accusations.

THe funnist is that they accuse me of believing things I dont
when they make clams just because I am Christian.

If I am the steriotyped Christian, then all the athiests here believe that Blacks are inferior to whites (something Neruo thought I thought because I am a white South African without even hering my views on the matter (how steriotyped and indoctrinated you are, Neruo. You believe only that wich you want, and reject all else, even if it comes from Scientist ... even seculer ones.) Then you all beleive that people with deffects sould be castrated, the government should take the children form parents and "prevent them form being indoctrinated by indoctrinationg them first", that there are no such things ase morals so you can do what the hell you like, that Rape is perfectly exeptable, and that there is no purpose in this world.

... But you all dont beleive all that, do you? Maby some, but not all.

How dare you sterio type Us, and refuse to listen when you say you are wrong in your opinion about what we belivieve, as if you are smarter then Us and all the others.

Do you now see, Blue? I am not trying to justify my own beleifs, I am trying to show you why many of yours, especialy your precias theory of evolution, are wrong.

now, let the flams come if thy must, but please, adress the entire post ...

and answer the question: why is it illogical?

Believers vs. non Believers

Geezy peezy...maybe it's because I live in the south but I have never known anyone who didn't believe in God, so this is all new to me. None the less this is my view...

I think the biggest difference in non believers and believers are that non believers usually try to convince others that they are right and try to discredit why believers are wrong. The difference in believers is that you CAN'T convince someone who knows God that there isn't a God because it's a feeling that takes over your soul. It's unexplainable! Trying to discredit God to a believer is like trying to tell a person that they don't exsist. So religion will never die, it will never go away, people will always believe what they have faith in and can feel through out them. Scientist can continue to play rock, paper, scissors and come up with their own views of all the world was created, but until you have had the experience of God entering into your life, you will always wonder "what if?"

I think the biggest difference in non believers and believers are that non believers usually try to convince others that they are right and try to discredit why believers are wrong.[/b]

Eh, I gotta disagree there. Non-believers don't go door to door trying to sell the "non-existence" of God - nor do they go around labeling people as sinners and telling them that they will rot in hell for not sharing in their faith. Don't even get me started on the role religion plays on wars.

But, my point for posting was really going to be that faith has nothing to do with the "God" as far as we all know it. Faith is belief/trust you just have in something. Could be a relative, friend, animal... even a rock! It's something that motivates and fills up an empty space within you. There may be people out there quite fullfiled without needing any faith or trust in others - but that's not necessarily what a "non-believer" (as far as not believeing in God) is.

Had the original author of the post titled it "How I found Faith" this whole argument would have not been brought up.

Originally Posted by Tornado

Eh, I gotta disagree there. Non-believers don't go door to door trying to sell the "non-existence" of God - nor do they go around labeling people as sinners and telling them that they will rot in hell for not sharing in their faith.
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they do, however, go around saying they are smarter, and acting as though evolution is there God, and who ever says it is wrong must be laughed out, and how Christianity and all the other religions should be outlawed

Don't even get me started on the role religion plays on wars.
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Dont let me get started on the French Revolution.

But, my point for posting was really going to be that faith has nothing to do with the "God" as far as we all know it. Faith is belief/trust you just have in something. Could be a relative, friend, animal... even a rock! It's something that motivates and fills up an empty space within you. There may be people out there quite fullfiled without needing any faith or trust in others
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Like Evolution?

- but that's not necessarily what a "non-believer" (as far as not believeing in God) is.

Had the original author of the post titled it "How I found Faith" this whole argument would have not been brought up.
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It would, though. Someone would have brought God into the equation

Originally Posted by Tornado

Eh, I gotta disagree there. Non-believers don't go door to door trying to sell the "non-existence" of God - nor do they go around labeling people as sinners and telling them that they will rot in hell for not sharing in their faith. Don't even get me started on the role religion plays on wars.

But, my point for posting was really going to be that faith has nothing to do with the "God" as far as we all know it. Faith is belief/trust you just have in something. Could be a relative, friend, animal... even a rock! It's something that motivates and fills up an empty space within you. There may be people out there quite fullfiled without needing any faith or trust in others - but that's not necessarily what a "non-believer" (as far as not believeing in God) is.

Had the original author of the post titled it "How I found Faith" this whole argument would have not been brought up.
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you must not confuze christians with people who claim to be perfect. we are not all perfect, no one is. I don't believe it is right to judge others and yes some if not many christians do just that. The difference is, we will be forgiven if we are truly saved and believe that Jesus died for our sins. I know that this is not what the post is about but I often see people point fingers at a religion or group as a whole when one person or several do something wrong. same is true for politics. one person does not represent an entire religion or group, that is unless that person is Jesus

Amen.

lets hope they listen this time

Originally Posted by Neruo

lol. Ah I see. My mistake.

So your god isn't even based on a 1940 year old scirpture, that is flawed, but Just on a dream... Ok. Have it your way, actually a dream is a better arguement then doing exactly what your parents did or what they rammed into you as a child.

How does your god look, and what are its morals ect? Just wondering.

-

and
No, only I am more jamming. But I just missed your 'not teh Christian god' part. Christianity really has a monopoly on that word 'god'. Really anoying.

Also, I am in no position to say this, but perhaps not starting with 'fucking atheist' this and 'fucking atheist' that. Just trow in some sarcasm like I do, don't outright 'fucking'.
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I know i need to chill on the "fuck" part but i said that like 100 times and no one heard me.

My God doesnt look like anything, he just is. His morals are.....well i dont know what his morals are just that there is karma and everything happens for a reason. You see im not even saying that when you die it doesnt just go black...it could but God at least gave us the here and now.

so what do you know about him?

Originally Posted by Keeper

so what do you know about him?
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All i know is that he is there, lets everything in the world happen for a reason people can learn life leasons, and that just knowing in your heart and soul that hes around the corner makes your life turn a 180 sometimes

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Keeper")</div>

they do, however, go around saying they are smarter, and acting as though evolution is there God, and who ever says it is wrong must be laughed out, and how Christianity and all the other religions should be outlawed[/b]

I think you&#39;re referring to the extremists - of which both sides have, so I won&#39;t bother to further entertain that point. However, is it not by nature that religions (not just Christianity) have a tendency to require that the faith be spread throughout society? Like somekind of virus. With religion, if one was to accept what you preached to them as "The Truth", it&#39;s called "converting". In science, it&#39;s educating.

I&#39;m not really against religion (contrary to what seems to come across in my post). I simply believe that each individual has the right to take whatever information is presented to them and make up their own mind. Just as Dropout found "God" in a dream (or whatever). If someone who&#39;s first told as a child "the sky is blue because God made it so" suddenly changes his/her mind about that after learning about the Rayleigh scattering, then let it be so.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Keeper")</div>

Dont let me get started on the French Revolution.[/b]

No problem. I don&#39;t happen to know much about it, and I don&#39;t really care to either. However, the crusades and inquisition come to mind...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Keeper")</div>

It would, though. Someone would have brought God into the equation[/b]

Exactly, someone who&#39;s religion obligates him to spread his faith. If not him, them maybe just you.

Well, Keeper, I&#39;m not really sure what you want me to say. I&#39;ve already addressed the commonly held perception of god, but maybe you have some other idea of what god is. Perhaps you should tell me in your own words what you think god is and we&#39;ll take it from there.

Originally Posted by dropout14

Im sorry that God hasnt shown any sign of him to you Mark. I will meditate that someday you will find him in any form that you can so that you are not so ignorant to the fact that you are ALIVE. And that sciece is fucking God and that what the fuck other evidence do you need other than Life? Life is the number one fucking sign that there is God, fucking athiest
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Originally Posted by dropout14

FUCK FUCK FUCK THE CHRISTANS&#33;&#33;&#33; IM NOT TALKING ABOUT THEM&#33;

ALL ATHIESTS ARE ARE PEOPLE WHO HATE CHRISTIANS I AM FINDING OUT, I HAVE SAID ABOUT 100 TIMES THIS IS NOT ABOUT CHRISTIANS FOR THE ONE FUCKING HUNDTRETH TIME&#33;

I MEAN DO YOU HEAR ME? ??????????????????????????????????????

oR IS IT THAT ALL ATHIESTS HAVE AGAINST RELIGION IS CHRISTIANS?

GOD SHOWED HIMSELF TO ME IN A FORM I COULD UNDERSTAND, I SAID ABOUT 100 TIMES I NEVER SAID IT WAS THE CHRISTIANS GOD
[/b]

These posts made me LOL very much.

Have you mentioned this part about "7 : 54" earlier, dropout? If you haven&#39;t, I believe I have seen others write about the same chapter in the bible, related to dreams. It might be my memory that serves me bad, though.

Do you think you could write down your dreams that followed, by the way? Altough I personally believe this god in your dreams most likely is created by yourself, I would be very interested to hear all of the dreams you have had. Please note that I do not deny the possibility of a god actually visiting your dreams.

Originally Posted by King

Have you mentioned this part about "7 : 54" earlier, dropout? If you haven&#39;t, I believe I have seen others write about the same chapter in the bible, related to dreams. It might be my memory that serves me bad, though.

Do you think you could write down your dreams that followed, by the way? Altough I personally believe this god in your dreams most likely is created by yourself, I would be very interested to hear all of the dreams you have had. Please note that I do not deny the possibility of a god actually visiting your dreams.
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what do you mean when you ask if i have mentioned 7 54 earlier? As in on this forum? Yes once or twice before

The dreams i have had that follow...do you want me to pm you or write them on here

Calm down people.
Is it too much to ask to respect an author&#39;s wishes?
Don&#39;t answer that&#33;

For what it is worth. I believe in science, evolution and God. I see no reason you cannot.

Originally Posted by Mark75

Well, Keeper, I&#39;m not really sure what you want me to say. I&#39;ve already addressed the commonly held perception of god, but maybe you have some other idea of what god is. Perhaps you should tell me in your own words what you think god is and we&#39;ll take it from there.
These posts made me LOL very much.
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your ignorance makes me laugh...

Originally Posted by dropout14

what do you mean when you ask if i have mentioned 7 54 earlier? As in on this forum? Yes once or twice before

The dreams i have had that follow...do you want me to pm you or write them on here
[/b]

Write them down here. I seldom check my inbox.

Well i had one were it was two precog dreams in one. I predicted my friend totaling his car and i have proof of that i knew it was going to happen, then it did.

I had a dream where i ran from my work to another corparate store by us and got stuff, then it happened, i had never before been asked to do something like that.

there are so many i could go on with but that could take forever, i also get precog thoughts....Like one were i thought " man i have never heard anyone ask for change of pennies to a dime nickel ect, then the next day a man asked me for a dime if he gave me 3 pennies. There are just so many random things like that that happen to me and i know htey are not coincidences

Originally Posted by dropout14

your ignorance makes me laugh...
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Sorry&#33; I should have been able to come to a solid conclusion about what this elusive thing Keeper calls god is, despite the fact he&#39;s never told me (that I can recall, anyway). I&#39;ve addressed the common belief of god, but apparently Keeper&#39;s definition differs in a way that invalidates my arguments. I should have been able to extrapolate from his dodgy rhetoric what it is he believes.

My apologies, I&#39;ll try to be more psychic next time (maybe it will come to me in a dream).

Originally Posted by Mark75

Sorry&#33; I should have been able to come to a solid conclusion about what this elusive thing Keeper calls god is, despite the fact he&#39;s never told me (that I can recall, anyway). I&#39;ve addressed the common belief of god, but apparently Keeper&#39;s definition differs in a way that invalidates my arguments. I should have been able to extrapolate from his dodgy rhetoric what it is he believes.

My apologies, I&#39;ll try to be more psychic next time (maybe it will come to me in a dream).
[/b]

I was talking about what you said about my posts

After seven Pages this discussion has digressed into name calling and belittling.
I see no reason to go on.
Sorry.