Thread: Call On Jesus When Having A Nightmare

Originally Posted by imran_p

I defintely will be
by the way,
are you close to compelteing your rebuttals?
Imran
[/b]

Yup very close, It's coming along very good Keeper has to put his information in as well. But I should be completed by Tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Ne

Just because the Father is referred to as Mighty in some Bibles doesn't make he and the Son co-equal in power. Mighty creatures were also called gods does that make any of them categorized as being the same in Power as the Father because they are referred to as god's as well? Jesus has a position far higher than angels, imperfect men, or Satan. Since these are referred to as "gods," mighty ones, surely Jesus can be and is "a god." Because of his unique position in relation to the Father, Jesus is a "Mighty God."—John 1:1; Isaiah 9:6.
Still, even though Jesus was called "Mighty," there can be only one who is "Almighty." To call The Father
"Almighty" would have little significance unless there existed others who were also called gods but who occupied a lesser or inferior position.
[/b]

I didn't see you address my earlier points. Mighty and Almighty are interchangeable as pointed out by the scriptures. The context in regards to others (angels, imperfect men, Satan etc) being referred to as gods highlights the fact that they are not divine.

For example, you quoted Psalms 82:6, but the surrounding verses indicate their true status.

Psalms 82:1 God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the "gods": 2 "How long will you defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked? Selah 3 Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. 4 Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked. 5 "They know nothing, they understand nothing. They walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken. 6 "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.' 7 But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler." 8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth, for all the nations are your inheritance.

Also, as you pointed out in John 10:34,35, Jesus referenced this passage to the other oppressors of his age, but their fate is just the same.

If humans were called gods defiantly, why wouldn't the One who Judges over Earth accurately be so (verse 8 of Psalms 82)?
Jeremiah 23:5 “ Behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD, “ That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper, And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.

Luke 1:49
Parallel Translations
Concordance Entries Holy Mighty Strong

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NASB: "For the Mighty One has done great things for me; And holy is His name. (NASB ©1995)
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GWT: because the Almighty has done great things to me. His name is holy. (GOD'S WORD®)
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KJV: For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.
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ASV: For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; And holy is his name.
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BBE: For he who is strong has done great things for me; and holy is his name.
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DBY: For the Mighty One has done to me great things, and holy is his name;
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WEY: Because the mighty One has done great things for me--Holy is His name!--
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WBS: For he that is mighty hath done to me great things, and holy is his name.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WEB: For he who is mighty has done great things for me. Holy is his name.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YLT: For He who is mighty did to me great things, And holy [is] His name,
[/b]

Once again stating Mighty IS Almighty.

Originally Posted by Genjyo

Once again stating Mighty IS Almighty.
[/b]

They are not interchangeable you failed to point out where in the bible has anyone else had the title of ALmighty. Once you find that then you'll be on to something.

Good luck looking for it.

Originally Posted by Genjyo

I didn't see you address my earlier points. Mighty and Almighty are interchangeable as pointed out by the scriptures. The context in regards to others (angels, imperfect men, Satan etc) being referred to as gods highlights the fact that they are not divine.
[/b]

I did address those earlier points, what ?are you not reading anything I'm putting in here. I told you that No one else is called Almighty in the Bible as a matter of fact I mentioned that several times. And you have yet to rebuttal that. However I'm curious do you believe in the Trinity?

Originally Posted by Ne

They are not interchangeable you failed to point out where in the bible has anyone else had the title of ALmighty. Once you find that then you'll be on to something.

Good luck looking for it.
I did address those earlier points, what ?are you not reading anything I'm putting in here. I told you that No one else is called Almighty in the Bible as a matter of fact I mentioned that several times. And you have yet to rebuttal that. However I'm curious do you believe in the Trinity?
[/b]

I was referring to the following:
1. Did the Almighty get demoted to Mighty God?
2. Does that mean Mighty God means LESSER God?

The Almighty God is not called Mighty God. Jesus is called Mighty but never Almighty.[/b]

We've covered the first part, now let's move on to the second part.

Rev 1:7 Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen. 8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

More description of the Alpha and Omega (First and Last) follows.

Rev 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Rev 2:8 "To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.

Rev 22 is profound in this aspect, but I'll point out the particulars, verse 7 "Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book." Verse 12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. 14"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

Finally, verse 20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus

Let me ask you something If Jesus was the Almighty Father then would you care to explain to me why In the account at Revelation 4:8 to 5:7, God is shown seated on his heavenly throne, but Jesus is not? If they are one in the same then how is it that God is seated however Jesus is not? Not only that Jesus has to approach God to take a scroll from God's right hand. Now as we both know Revelations is taken place in Heaven but it looks pretty clear they they are two seperate entities to me in Heaven.

But let's tackle your misinterpretations first.


Since the author of the Gospel of John utilized the Greek Septuagint translation of the Bible in his writings, it cannot be assumed that John's Jesus is referring to the words in Exodus 3:14. Although Jesus actually spoke in Hebrew or Aramaic, not Greek, John recorded Jesus' alleged words in Greek. Ego eimi ("I am"), used by John's Jesus, is not the same as ho on ("The Being, The One Who Is"), which is used in the Septuagint's rendering of Exodus 3:14: "And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and He said, Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: THE BEING has sent me to you." Even though ho on appears in the Gospel of John, it is never used as a title or name or exclusively as a reference to Jesus. In the Book of Revelation, also credited to John by Christian commentators, ho on appears five times (Revelation 1:4, 8; 4:8; 11:17; 16:5). Significantly, in each instance, it is used as a title or designation applied to God, not Jesus. Thus: "John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is [ho on] and who was and who is to come; and from the seven spirits who are before His throne" (Revelation 1:4). That this verse refers to God and not Jesus is seen from the following verse, which continues the greeting by now including Jesus as one of those sending greetings. Hence, John says, in verses 4 and 5, that greetings are sent by God, the seven spirits, and Jesus.

In verse 8, John writes: "'I am the Alpha and the Omega,' says the Lord God, 'who is [ho on] and who was and who is to come, the Almighty'" (Revelation 1:8). This verse also speaks of God, not Jesus. In Revelation 4:8, ho on is applied to "the Lord God, the Almighty," not Jesus, who, as the "Lamb" referred to in Revelation 5:6-7, comes to God, who is sitting on His throne. That they are two separate entities is seen from Revelation 5:13: "To the one sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." In addition, ho on is applied to the "Lord God, the Almighty," not Jesus, in Revelation 11:17 and Revelation 16:5. That ho on in Revelation 16:5 refers to God and not Jesus can be seen from verse 7, which, referring to the subject of verses 5 and 6, states: "And I heard the altar saying: 'Yes, Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.'" These are further indications that ho on and ego eimi are not used as synonymous terms by John. In John 8:56-58, John is expounding his belief that Jesus had a prehuman existence as an angelic being in heaven. John's Jesus is proclaiming here that this prehuman existence began before Abraham was born: "Before Abraham came into being, I am." The fact of the matter is that the text does not at all indicate how long Jesus supposedly lived before Abraham. In no honest way can John's statement be taken to identify Jesus as God.

So in conclusion of this I present to you once again show me where Jesus is called Almighty in the Bible because it's pretty clear that you misinterpreted these verses thinking it those verses were referring to Jesus. As a matter of Fact I just thought of something. The begining of Revelations is a dead give away that it's the Fathers words.

Remember: REV 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which "God" gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Why didn't it just say the Revelation in which God gave unto himself? Or why the introduction at all if He and the Father were one in the same in Heaven.

Now I have some questions of my own.

Jesus himself said: "The Father is greater than I" John 14:28, RS, Catholic edition.

Jesus said, "You, the only true God." (John 17:3) If Jesus and Yahweh are one and the same then why didn't he give reference to Us as the only true God's?

At John 20:17 he said to Mary Magdalene: "I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God." (RS, Catholic edition). If Jesus and the Father were one in the same then would there be a need for him to say "My God" or "My Father?"

At 2 Corinthians 1:3 the apostle Paul confirms this relationship: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." Since Jesus had a God, his Father, he could not at the same time be that God, could he?

Jesus' words at John 8:17, 18 are also significant. He states: "In your own Law it is written, 'The witness of two men is true.' I am one that bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me." Here Jesus shows that he and the Father, that is, Almighty God, must be two distinct entities, for how else could there truly be two witnesses?

At the very outset of Jesus' ministry, when he came up out of the baptismal water, God's voice from heaven said: "This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved." (Matthew 3:16, 17) Was God saying that he was his own son, that he approved himself, that he sent himself?

Jesus indicated his Father's superiority when he said: "Yahweh's spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor." (Luke 4:18) Anointing is the giving of authority or a commission by a superior to someone who does not already have authority. Why would there be a need for Anointment if Jesus and the Father were equal in power?

Something else that's interesting in Matthew when Jesus made his Fathers superiority pretty clear when the mother of two disciples asked that her sons sit one at the right and one at the left of Jesus when he came into his Kingdom. Jesus answered: "As for seats at my right hand and my left, these are not mine to grant; they belong to those to whom they have been allotted by my Father," that is, God. (Matthew 20:23, JB) Had Jesus been Almighty God, those positions would have been his to give. But Jesus could not give them, for they were God's to give, and Jesus was not God.

Now take special note here, when Jesus died, he was in the tomb for parts of three days. If he were God, then Habakkuk 1:12 is wrong when it says: "O my God, my Holy One, you do not die." But the Bible says that Jesus did die and was unconscious in the tomb. And who resurrected Jesus from the dead? If he was truly dead, he could not have resurrected himself. On the other hand, if he was not really dead, his pretended death would not have paid the ransom price for Adam's sin. But he did pay that price in full by his genuine death. So it was "God [who] resurrected [Jesus] by loosing the pangs of death." (Acts 2:24) The superior, God Almighty, raised the lesser, his servant Jesus, from the dead.

You never answered my question, do you believe in the Trinity?

I could go on forever showing that Jesus and the Almighty Father are not one in the same, but I will stop here for now.

Originally Posted by Ne

Let me ask you something If Jesus was the Almighty Father then would you care to explain to me why In the account at Revelation 4:8 to 5:7, God is shown seated on his heavenly throne, but Jesus is not? If they are one in the same then how is it that God is seated however Jesus is not? Not only that Jesus has to approach God to take a scroll from God's right hand. Now as we both know Revelations is taken place in Heaven but it looks pretty clear they they are two seperate entities to me in Heaven.[/b]

Please continue reading.

Originally Posted by Ne

But let's tackle your misinterpretations first.[/b]

Originally Posted by Ne

Since the author of the Gospel of John utilized the Greek Septuagint translation of the Bible in his writings, it cannot be assumed that John's Jesus is referring to the words in Exodus 3:14. Although Jesus actually spoke in Hebrew or Aramaic, not Greek, John recorded Jesus' alleged words in Greek. Ego eimi ("I am"), used by John's Jesus, is not the same as ho on ("The Being, The One Who Is"), which is used in the Septuagint's rendering of Exodus 3:14: "And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and He said, Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: THE BEING has sent me to you." Even though ho on appears in the Gospel of John, it is never used as a title or name or exclusively as a reference to Jesus. In the Book of Revelation, also credited to John by Christian commentators, ho on appears five times (Revelation 1:4, 8; 4:8; 11:17; 16:5). Significantly, in each instance, it is used as a title or designation applied to God, not Jesus. Thus: "John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is [ho on] and who was and who is to come; and from the seven spirits who are before His throne" (Revelation 1:4). That this verse refers to God and not Jesus is seen from the following verse, which continues the greeting by now including Jesus as one of those sending greetings. Hence, John says, in verses 4 and 5, that greetings are sent by God, the seven spirits, and Jesus.

In verse 8, John writes: "'I am the Alpha and the Omega,' says the Lord God, 'who is [ho on] and who was and who is to come, the Almighty'" (Revelation 1:8). This verse also speaks of God, not Jesus. In Revelation 4:8, ho on is applied to "the Lord God, the Almighty," not Jesus, who, as the "Lamb" referred to in Revelation 5:6-7, comes to God, who is sitting on His throne. That they are two separate entities is seen from Revelation 5:13: "To the one sitting on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." In addition, ho on is applied to the "Lord God, the Almighty," not Jesus, in Revelation 11:17 and Revelation 16:5. That ho on in Revelation 16:5 refers to God and not Jesus can be seen from verse 7, which, referring to the subject of verses 5 and 6, states: "And I heard the altar saying: 'Yes, Lord God, the Almighty, true and righteous are Your judgments.'" These are further indications that ho on and ego eimi are not used as synonymous terms by John. In John 8:56-58, John is expounding his belief that Jesus had a prehuman existence as an angelic being in heaven. John's Jesus is proclaiming here that this prehuman existence began before Abraham was born: "Before Abraham came into being, I am." The fact of the matter is that the text does not at all indicate how long Jesus supposedly lived before Abraham. In no honest way can John's statement be taken to identify Jesus as God.

So in conclusion of this I present to you once again show me where Jesus is called Almighty in the Bible because it's pretty clear that you misinterpreted these verses thinking it those verses were referring to Jesus. As a matter of Fact I just thought of something. The begining of Revelations is a dead give away that it's the Fathers words.

Remember: REV 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which "God" gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Why didn't it just say the Revelation in which God gave unto himself? Or why the introduction at all if He and the Father were one in the same in Heaven.

I could go on forever showing that Jesus and the Almighty Father are not one in the same, but I will stop here for now.

You never answered my question, do you believe in the Trinity?[/b]

I'm sorry, but you have argued against a false premise. The Son IS NOT the same person as the Father. This is something I agree with you entirely!

Back to the Revelation of Jesus Christ...

Rev 1:7 Look! He comes with the clouds of heaven. And everyone will see him—even those who pierced him. And all the nations of the world will mourn for him. Yes! Amen! 8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega—the beginning and the end,”says the Lord God. “I am the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come—the Almighty One.”
Who's Coming are Christian's waiting for? Someone who was pierced? Jesus was pierced on the cross!

Also please note Mat 24:30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.

Rev 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

Rev 2:8 "To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.

Rev 22:12 Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. 14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

We know the Lord God, the Alpha and Omega, is coming quickly and he emphasizes it in verse 20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." What is John's response? Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
Also, yes I believe in the Trinity.

Now I have some questions of my own.
Jesus himself said: "The Father is greater than I" John 14:28, RS, Catholic edition.

Jesus said, "You, the only true God." (John 17:3) If Jesus and Yahweh are one and the same then why didn't he give reference to Us as the only true God's?

At John 20:17 he said to Mary Magdalene: "I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God." (RS, Catholic edition). If Jesus and the Father were one in the same then would there be a need for him to say "My God" or "My Father?"

At 2 Corinthians 1:3 the apostle Paul confirms this relationship: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." Since Jesus had a God, his Father, he could not at the same time be that God, could he?

Jesus' words at John 8:17, 18 are also significant. He states: "In your own Law it is written, 'The witness of two men is true.' I am one that bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me." Here Jesus shows that he and the Father, that is, Almighty God, must be two distinct entities, for how else could there truly be two witnesses?

At the very outset of Jesus' ministry, when he came up out of the baptismal water, God's voice from heaven said: "This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved." (Matthew 3:16, 17) Was God saying that he was his own son, that he approved himself, that he sent himself?

Jesus indicated his Father's superiority when he said: "Yahweh's spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor." (Luke 4:18) Anointing is the giving of authority or a commission by a superior to someone who does not already have authority. Why would there be a need for Anointment if Jesus and the Father were equal in power?

Something else that's interesting in Matthew when Jesus made his Fathers superiority pretty clear when the mother of two disciples asked that her sons sit one at the right and one at the left of Jesus when he came into his Kingdom. Jesus answered: "As for seats at my right hand and my left, these are not mine to grant; they belong to those to whom they have been allotted by my Father," that is, God. (Matthew 20:23, JB) Had Jesus been Almighty God, those positions would have been his to give. But Jesus could not give them, for they were God's to give, and Jesus was not God.

Now take special note here, when Jesus died, he was in the tomb for parts of three days. If he were God, then Habakkuk 1:12 is wrong when it says: "O my God, my Holy One, you do not die." But the Bible says that Jesus did die and was unconscious in the tomb. And who resurrected Jesus from the dead? If he was truly dead, he could not have resurrected himself. On the other hand, if he was not really dead, his pretended death would not have paid the ransom price for Adam's sin. But he did pay that price in full by his genuine death. So it was "God [who] resurrected [Jesus] by loosing the pangs of death." (Acts 2:24) The superior, God Almighty, raised the lesser, his servant Jesus, from the dead.
[/b]

Yes, i'm so glad you have questions and I promise I will answer them, but please you haven't answered my original questions.

1. Did the Almighty God get demoted to Mighty?
2. Does Mighty mean LESSER GOD?

It's very important to have a clear understanding of these before we can analyze the rest.

Originally Posted by Genjyo

I'm sorry, but you have argued against a false premise. The Son IS NOT the same person as the Father. This is something I agree with you entirely![/b]

Well now I know that you agree they are not one in the same. So there really isn't anything else to argue here.

But I'm going to answer your question.

1. No Yahweh didn't get demoted
2. Yes Mighty is Lesser than ALmighty

Originally Posted by Ne

Well now I know that you agree they are not one in the same. So there really isn't anything else to argue here.

But I'm going to answer your question.

1. No Yahweh didn't get promoted
2. Yes Mighty is Lesser than ALmighty
[/b]

Thank you!
1. Correct!
2. Then how is God lesser in Isaiah 10:21 A remnant will return, a remnant of Jacob will return to the Mighty God. and in Jeremiah 32:17 ‘Ah, Lord GOD! Behold, You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and outstretched arm. There is nothing too hard for You. 18 You show lovingkindness to thousands, and repay the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them—the Great, the Mighty God, whose name is the LORD of hosts.?

I didn't say The Father was lesser I said the terminology is lesser. As I mentioned before just because El Gibbor [God of Mighty] is listed in that verse doesn't give any indication that Jesus is co-equal to the Father. Becuase you fail to show where Jesus is called Almighty or anyone else in the scriptures for that matter. That title is given to only one individual Jehovah God.

Originally Posted by Ne

I didn't say The Father was lesser I said the terminology is lesser. As I mentioned before just because El Gibbor [God of Mighty] is listed in that verse doesn't give any indication that Jesus is co-equal to the Father. Becuase you fail to show where Jesus is called Almighty or anyone else in the scriptures for that matter. That title is given to only one individual Jehovah God.
[/b]

I will try to summarize, the Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. This One is pierced, aside from many characteristics previously noted, and is coming.

Rev 1:7 Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen. 8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

Better yet, the Almighty identifies Himself

Rev 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. 14"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

The Almighty who has been testifying all these things says "Yes, I am coming". Who is that?

Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

Once again, who are Christians waiting for?

Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ

Who do you say Jesus is?

Originally Posted by Genjyo

I will try to summarize, the Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. This One is pierced, aside from many characteristics previously noted, and is coming.

Rev 1:7 Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen. 8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
[/b]

You got one problem. Verse 8 is not Jesus speaking that is Yahweh speaking. Yahweh is calling himself the Almighty. I mean seriously Think about it. Let's just say it was Jesus in Verse 8. Then why would that be the only account in the entire bible that Jesus calls himself Almighty? If he was truely The Almighty then why isn't it consistent in all the scriptures where he is referred to as different titles? It's consistent with the Father so if Jesus is co-equal then why would that be the only indication that Almighty is his title? But we don't have that one to worry about anyway becuase it's not Jesus talking in Verse 8. And I've already explained what shows indication that it is the Father and not the Son but I guess you didn't read that post huh?

Originally Posted by Ne

You got one problem. Verse 8 is not Jesus speaking that is Yahweh speaking. Yahweh is calling himself the Almighty. I mean seriously Think about it. Let's just say it was Jesus in Verse 8. Then why would that be the only account in the entire bible that Jesus calls himself Almighty? If he was truely The Almighty then why isn't it consistent in all the scriptures where he is referred to as different titles? It's consistent with the Father so if Jesus is co-equal then why would that be the only indication that Almighty is his title? But we don't have that one to worry about anyway becuase it's not Jesus talking in Verse 8. And I've already explained what shows indication that it is the Father and not the Son but I guess you didn't read that post huh?
[/b]

Jesus fully indicates He is the Alpha and Omega who was dead but is alive for ever. He is the One whom we await, the One who was pierced, and the One who identifies Himself as "I, Jesus".

If Jesus is the Word, then He is, in part at least, part of the Father, and has been with Him since before the Begginning, being the source of the Beginning

Originally Posted by Genjyo

Jesus fully indicates He is the Alpha and Omega who was dead but is alive for ever. He is the One whom we await, the One who was pierced, and the One who identifies Himself as "I, Jesus".
[/b]

Jesus doesn't share the title Almighty does he? If anything Jesus is the first of God's invisible creations the Begining of his Invisible creations. Besides If Jesus was the Almighty Alpha and Omega God then the Scriptures would show some serious contridictions. Once again I point out If he were God, then Habakkuk 1:12 is wrong when it says: "O my God, my Holy One, you do not die." What sense does it make for this verse to show God does not die and then contridicts itself that God dies?

As I have said (and apparently no one has seen) Jesus is the means by wich all is Created

You're right Keeper, the Word is just as eternal. Also, not a creation.

John 1:3 without him nothing was made that has been made.

Originally Posted by Ne

Jesus doesn't share the title Almighty does he? If anything Jesus is the first of God's invisible creations the Begining of his Invisible creations. Besides If Jesus was the Almighty Alpha and Omega God then the Scriptures would show some serious contridictions. Once again I point out If he were God, then Habakkuk 1:12 is wrong when it says: "O my God, my Holy One, you do not die." What sense does it make for this verse to show God does not die and then contridicts itself that God dies?
[/b]

The Word took on human flesh, but did not give up Deity (John 1:14). The body of Jesus died, not God! (Luke 23:46)

Now, Scripture reveals Yahweh is a Mighty God and Jesus is a Mighty God. Are there two Mighty Gods in Heaven?

Originally Posted by Genjyo

You're right Keeper, the Word is just as eternal. Also, not a creation.

John 1:3 without him nothing was made that has been made.
The Word took on human flesh, but did not give up Deity (John 1:14). The body of Jesus died, not God! (Luke 23:46)

Now, Scripture reveals Yahweh is a Mighty God and Jesus is a Mighty God. Are there two Mighty Gods in Heaven?
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You know what we are just going around in circles. You keep asking me the same questions over and over again with no real factual evidence to support any of your informtion. And yet I keep giving you the same answer.

Originally Posted by Ne

You know what we are just going around in circles. You keep asking me the same questions over and over again with no real factual evidence to support any of your informtion. And yet I keep giving you the same answer.
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Hi, may I ask what you are referring to? I almost typed up an entire book of the Bible for scriptural evidence and two questions I had to repeat because I wasn't receiving an answer. The last question is an entirely different one!

Please forgive my inquisitiveness.