Thread: Benefits of Atheism

Guilt is a human emotion, it isnt tied to any religion. In fact, an atheist can feel just as guilty as a christian, a christian can just ask jesus for forgiveness and ta-da, its all better.

There are two main commandments that sum up all the other ones: love God, and love your neighbour. When you do something unloving to someone, you feel guilty.

And I think we feel much worse about our guilt and sin because we know that our sin is the reason Jesus had to die. We love Jesus more than anything and we are the ones who caused him to have to die for us. So we are sad about our sinfulness because of that but atheists don't really care.

We can speak of bigger issues like murder, but I never said that an atheist doesnt grasp these ideas. But other issues, such as pre-marital sex...

pre-marital sex is only an issue BECAUSE of your religion... Just like eating meat is wrong in certain religions, it holds no weight in this argument. We're talking about the basic issues of right and wrong that everyone understands (independent of religion)...

I could have a religion that says its a sin to sit down for instance, but i cant argue that you dont understand right from wrong just because you dont follow that rule.

If god said it was okay to kill for instance, going by your post you would have no guilty feeling after doing it?

... An atheist wouldnt.

That answer made no sense, athiests dont need a god to threaten them in order to see murder as wrong... Im unsure what you're saying here.

And I think we feel much worse about our guilt and sin because we know that our sin is the reason Jesus had to die.

So what you're saying is although athiests feel guilty about hurting someone, you feel extra guilty because you killed jesus?
That proves nothing apart from the fact that you tag on extra guilt because of your beliefs, that doesn't mean athiests dont feel guilty. Athiests obviously dont feel guilty about jesus, its not part of their belief system.

The argument about wrong or right and guilt is pretty void if you're using characters from holy books.

I agree Christians do not have a monopoly on guilt, I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by DoomedOne

An atheist does not lack any of the morals or guidance as someone with religion, or enlightenment for that matter. As a post-atheist, I would qualify it as a religion, it is simply a religion that doesn't take any symbols literally. It still has morals (as reason distates its own morals) and guidance (just as living in the real world offers plenty of guidance) and furthermore, it paves the way for people to gain real spiritual understanding without dealing with all those misconceptions and symbols taken literally.

I agree with you about the true spiritual understanding that comes from atheism. I found my own spirituallity through atheism as well because I rejected religions. But most atheists just seem to be too lazy to deal with ideas like spirit or God itself...

But most atheists just seem to be too lazy to deal with ideas like spirit or God itself...

God did it, seems unlazy too me. I don't have to learn about evolution god did it or big bang god did it. Singularties no god did it.
I guess some people go further then god did it, I wonder who is truly lazy the person who tries to understand things through science or religious people who have only belife. Well, I never heard a decent reason to believe in god or any evidence.

Originally Posted by wendylove

God did it, seems unlazy too me. I don't have to learn about evolution god did it or big bang god did it. Singularties no god did it.
I guess some people go further then god did it, I wonder who is truly lazy the person who tries to understand things through science or religious people who have only belife. Well, I never heard a decent reason to believe in god or any evidence.

To me, science itself and it's unpredictabillity are a proof of God's existance. Ok, so people that try to understand things through science aren't lazy (I study science, so I have to agree with that) but when you try to make the observations of science co-exist with God... That's the real difficulty and that's why I think atheists are lazy.

To me, science itself and it's unpredictabillity are a proof of God's existance.

Look up chaos theory. If I flip a coin a hundred times then it must be god doing it.

Originally Posted by MrGrEmLiN

To me, science itself and it's unpredictabillity are a proof of God's existance.

when you try to make the observations of science co-exist with God... That's the real difficulty and that's why I think atheists are lazy.

I think I see your point, but I dont think most people will get it all the way...
I think what you mean (correct me if I am wrong), is that there are several things that science has no clue about, and things that are absolutely vital.

For example, in the Big Bang Theory (Which I agree with), the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle and Inflation worked together in the early universe so perfectly, that if inflation occured just a second later, we would not be able to exist.

What caused this inflation? What caused it to happed at the perfect power/speed/time that it did?

The Atheist Solution: We dont know, but hope we will learn!



These major gaps are all over in science. While evolution may look like a sound theory, when you ask a scientist how life started from non-life... well good luck getting a half decent response. The fact is, IF it happened like that, then we DO NOT KNOW how it happened.

I agree, science doesnt have all the answers at the moment, but thats what science is all about, discovery. Its ever changing taking in new information, its not static.

The Atheist Solution: We dont know, but hope we will learn!

The religious solution: As we lack the knowledge to answer some of the more puzzling questions in the universe we should just make up a solution and close our minds to all other possibilities.

I think its good that at least some people are trying to further human understanding by actually exploring more possibilities.

What caused this inflation? What caused it to happed at the perfect power/speed/time that it did?

Maybe nothing 'caused' the big bang, just like nothing caused god, maybe it just happened and 'started' the cause and effect chain we see today, just like your god did.

Originally Posted by mynameismichael

I think I see your point, but I dont think most people will get it all the way...
I think what you mean (correct me if I am wrong), is that there are several things that science has no clue about, and things that are absolutely vital.

For example, in the Big Bang Theory (Which I agree with), the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle and Inflation worked together in the early universe so perfectly, that if inflation occured just a second later, we would not be able to exist.

What caused this inflation? What caused it to happed at the perfect power/speed/time that it did?

The Atheist Solution: We dont know, but hope we will learn!



These major gaps are all over in science. While evolution may look like a sound theory, when you ask a scientist how life started from non-life... well good luck getting a half decent response. The fact is, IF it happened like that, then we DO NOT KNOW how it happened.

Yeah, that's kind of my point. So much in science is left unanswered because it simply denies the existence of God. I mean, I'm not saying everyone should believe, it's just that I only see science saying "here we have this being that goes over this process in which this was observed" and I keep asking "ok... so why does it happen... ok, a chemical process... and why does this process happen?" And ultimatelly no one will be able to answer my questions because things in our physical world just seem to happen out of the blue...

Being a conscious being I can't help but to ask myself where did I come from... Why am I thinking right now?! How am I conscious?! Because my consciousness is just so infinitelly bigger than my brain! Plus, I find science people extremely pretensious because they believe there's nothing that goes over their understanding, everything in the Universe will someday be measured by their own standards. And don't go like "so, you just think you don't have to understand it because your God did it!!!"... heard that!

Originally Posted by RooJ

I agree, science doesnt have all the answers at the moment, but thats what science is all about, discovery. Its ever changing taking in new information, its not static.



The religious solution: As we lack the knowledge to answer some of the more puzzling questions in the universe we should just make up a solution and close our minds to all other possibilities.

I think its good that at least some people are trying to further human understanding by actually exploring more possibilities.



Maybe nothing 'caused' the big bang, just like nothing caused god, maybe it just happened and 'started' the cause and effect chain we see today, just like your god did.

Thank you Rooj! You will be my token idiot atheist from now on!
Mind if I ask how old you are? So far I have yet to see one intellectual thought in any of your posts.


MrGrEmLiN-

I agree.

There are two ways that we can find God in our World. First is by looking at the external world. Looking at science. The fact that we have a world so perfect that we can study it in the first place shows us that its clearly not random! Science is about finding trends and patterns! The more I study physics and the start of the universe, the less science has to offer!

The other way is by looking inward. Asking serious questions. Something I honestly believe that most atheists simply do not do.

Oh, and Rooj- If you would like to ever have an intellectual debate on any issue, I am willing. I will warn you, from what I have seen from your comments, you dont stand much of a chance.

I have a question for anybody who thinks religion is the only basis for feeling guilty. If, hypothetically, you somehow found out with absolute certainty that God does not exist, would you be able to kill people without feeling guilty?

Originally Posted by MrGrEmLiN

To me, science itself and it's unpredictabillity are a proof of God's existance. Ok, so people that try to understand things through science aren't lazy (I study science, so I have to agree with that) but when you try to make the observations of science co-exist with God... That's the real difficulty and that's why I think atheists are lazy.

If we don't try to reconcile science with God it is because we don't think he exists, not because we are lazy. A lot of us do try to reconcile science and logic with God and see that it apparently cannot be done. I try it a lot, and it would be very interesting to see it done. I welcome it. When we try to get theists in this forum to reconcile God with science and logic, we get accused of persecuting theists and arrogantly getting our kicks by making a mockery of theism. So we get called arrogant and oppressive when we do try to understand God, and we get called lazy when we don't. Is there a way to make all theists happy?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

A lot of us do try to reconcile science and logic with God and see that it apparently cannot be done. I try it a lot, and it would be very interesting to see it done. I welcome it. When we try to get theists in this forum to reconcile God with science and logic, we get accused of persecuting theists and arrogantly getting our kicks by making a mockery of theism.

Hi.

My name is Michael. I am 20 years old and I just recently transfered to a Catholic University to study theology and Catechetics. My favorite part of the Catholic religion is that it does not argue against any mainstream science. In fact, it embraces and encourages it! I enjoy studies in physics just as much as my studies in theology.

I will argue anyone under only one condition. We remain civil, use reason, and be open. No personal attacks. No unwarrented and slanderous claims. Other than that, I seek the truth, name your topic.

Originally Posted by mynameismichael

Hi.

My name is Michael. I am 20 years old and I just recently transfered to a Catholic University to study theology and Catechetics. My favorite part of the Catholic religion is that it does not argue against any mainstream science. In fact, it embraces and encourages it! I enjoy studies in physics just as much as my studies in theology.

I will argue anyone under only one condition. We remain civil, use reason, and be open. No personal attacks. No unwarrented and slanderous claims. Other than that, I seek the truth, name your topic.

Hello, Michael. You don't have to worry about the initiation of personal attacks from me. I am always nice to people who are nice. You are new here, so you missed the long debates we had in old threads. I don't claim I can prove that there is no god. However, I have done a lot of arguing that it is a very far fetched concept, and I have argued a lot that the Christian God is a concept that contradicts itself. The two threads I started that I think sum up my disagreements with Christianity the most are "If I Were God..." and "Why Assume the Source of the Universe is Conscious?". You can read my initial posts in those threads and hopefully read my other points in those threads, and you will see why I believe what I believe.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

The two threads I started that I think sum up my disagreements with Christianity the most are "If I Were God..." and "Why Assume the Source of the Universe is Conscious?". You can read my initial posts in those threads and hopefully read my other points in those threads, and you will see why I believe what I believe.

Great

Right away the second topic sticks out as something that I have studied in metaphysics

Just wondering, have you studied any metaphysics? If not its fine, but if so I guess I can skip the basics

Ill have to start posting later, got things to do.

Originally Posted by mynameismichael

Great

Right away the second topic sticks out as something that I have studied in metaphysics

Just wondering, have you studied any metaphysics? If not its fine, but if so I guess I can skip the basics

Ill have to start posting later, got things to do.

Yes, I've studied metaphysics. I minored in philosophy in college, and my favorite class in all of college was metaphysics. I have done a whole lot of reading and thinking about it also. I am obsessed with metaphysics.

Thank you Rooj! You will be my token idiot atheist from now on!

Resorting to personal attacks and name calling in a last ditch attempt to sully my character really doesnt detract from the fact that ive answered every argument you've made successfully (Even though you avoid answering many of my points). Im sorry you're becoming frustrated by your inability to convert me and everyone else here.

Oh, and Rooj- If you would like to ever have an intellectual debate on any issue, I am willing. I will warn you, from what I have seen from your comments, you dont stand much of a chance.

I smiled at this, im getting told how to have an intellectual debate by someone who claims its impossible for non-religious people to feel guilt, and who miserably fails to back that up, congratulations im sure you've won over many athiests with that statement.

So please.. put your ego away, its plain for everyone to read and see that although you talk big and aggressive your evidence carries little weight, you've so far unsuccessfully defended each of your arguments. I see little point in continuing this debate with someone who resorts to name calling... when you can contain your anger and reduce your arrogance feel free to get in touch.

Originally Posted by mynameismichael

Thank you Rooj! You will be my token idiot atheist from now on!
Mind if I ask how old you are? So far I have yet to see one intellectual thought in any of your posts.

Originally Posted by mynameismichael

I will argue anyone under only one condition. We remain civil, use reason, and be open. No personal attacks. No unwarrented and slanderous claims.

You fail yourself.

Just like your God.

LMAO! Phail!!:p ( this is actually at Jeremsyr)

Well at least you feel guilty for saying we have no emotions because you are religious:p

Since we feel no guilt.... maybe we should help them back up their claims by saying what ever the hell we want. Prepares PAC( Personal Attack Cannon):p

Charging..." No joe thats such a sick horrible thing to say, don't do it!!"
..." It's ok dude they told us we cant feel guilt so lets not ok"
...." Yeah ok..."
......

FULLY CHARGED!!!

Target Jeremsyr.... firing in 3....2.....1............cannon powering down....

damn it, it seems that i'd feel to guilty by upsetting you with horrible comments that i cant bring myself to do it. What is my religion? It cannot be Atheist as Atheists lack emotion because they have no God, what am i?:p

serious question though, what am i? I don't believe in God so i am not guilty for my sins and not guilty that Jesus died, yet i feel guilt.. Am i some different type of human that is born with morals and emotions, are there any others like me?

If you do not believe in a god, you're an atheist. Buddhists are atheists for example.

Originally Posted by homer2020

I'm pretty sure that if a Christian doesn't know where they are going they aren't Christian. I know exactly what's going to happen when I die, and sadly pretty sure where some other people are (unless something changes)

That's just the thing though. You think you know where you are going, but you don't. No-one does. You have faith that you'll spend eternity in heaven, but I'm sure even you have your doubts once in a while. Especially since heaven may not even exist. Or it might exist. In all reality, either one of us could be right, so neither of us know where we're going.

Originally Posted by mynameismichael

These major gaps are all over in science. While evolution may look like a sound theory, when you ask a scientist how life started from non-life... well good luck getting a half decent response. The fact is, IF it happened like that, then we DO NOT KNOW how it happened.

There is a type of cells that spontaneously generate. Scientists suppose that these were the earliest forms of life. I honestly don't remember what they were called, but it has been proved that they exist. Even if you have a completely inhospitable environment, if you allow enough time to pass eventually organisms will begin to appear there.

Originally Posted by Marvo

If you do not believe in a god, you're an atheist. Buddhists are atheists for example.

In that case I'm in the middle of theism and atheism. I believe in a complex spiritual universe but I don't know where it leads... Basically I don't believe the physical universe is the only one that exists. Do most of you believe in this too or you simply reject this idea along with the belief in God?