Quote Originally Posted by jaasum View Post
Okay, I have thought about it for a little bit as I finished up at work ect.

Here is how I can answer it, as simply as possible.

I like this question, I really do. I like it because it is one of the smartest things I have heard from an atheistic standpoint and it sounds like a sincere question. I have never pondered it and it made me think. I did answer it a little bit above but for the sake of clarity lets just move forward.

How I understand this is that since, according to Christians God always has been, then why can't existence just as easily always have been? That is interesting and I guess I missed it the question entirely at first because it is a loophole question. You answered it yourself. I am trying really hard to think of a good analogy but it's hard to explain. I see them as the same thing. Creation is an expression of God, it is part of God and God expresses it to us in many different ways. To clarify even more all the matter that we see as our own reality, all the matter we don't see ect is all literally a part of God. Good, evil, love, hate, the rocks, the skies, the sun, the stars is all God. Does that mean I think you and me ARE God? Not exactly, we are OF God. He birthed this reality of Himself because it was His nature. A God of laws such as the ones we see in nature is not a stupid one, and I see it as one with a plan that will be fulfilled, but this is where I'll stop. In short I see your question as trying to separate two things I see as the same. It's the same paradox I see with free-will and predestination. Sort of like two wings on a bird. If you use only one you will fly in circles, you need both to make sense of what IS.
Thank you for addressing the question after showing that you understand it. I appreciate that. However, I don't think your belief in the existence of God as an entity much like the Tao in Taoism or Brahman in Hinduism quite gets to the answer. You said what you believe, but you didn't really say how it explains why the source of the universe must be conscious. You just said you believe it is and showed a discrepency between your understanding of God's relationship to the universe and general Christianity's understanding of it. You expressed that you don't believe the story of creation as it is literally interpreted from Genesis. That's an interesting view, but it doesn't really explain the resolution to the limit we think we have found in the intelligent design argument. Why is it impossible for the eternal source of the universe to be unconscious? Why would everything unconscious require a conscious designer while not everything conscious requires a conscious designer? Saying that the source and its manifestations are not separate, contrarary to the general Christian view, does not explain that. But you have come closer than anybody to answering this. Please don't give up. Thanks again.