how can you say that there is not a higher power?

[tehpwner]

Im thinking outloud here but how can you say that there is not a higher power? i mean i know the Big bang theory but then again what created the particles for the big bang? What created the flow of time itself? I hope this might convert some of you skeptics here.... Please reply

[blahaha]

Im thinking outloud here but how can you say that there is not a higher power? i mean i know the Big bang theory but then again what created the particles for the big bang? What created the flow of time itself? I hope this might convert some of you skeptics here.... Please reply How can you say there is a higher power? It's ridiculous if you ask me.

[♥Mark]

Im thinking outloud here but how can you say that there is not a higher power? i mean i know the Big bang theory but then again what created the particles for the big bang? What created the flow of time itself? I hope this might convert some of you skeptics here.... Please reply You're positively right! I'm converting to Scientology at once!

[tehpwner]

Well im cathlioc but..... was that an insult?

[Bad Wolf]

Im thinking outloud here but how can you say that there is not a higher power? i mean i know the Big bang theory but then again what created the particles for the big bang? What created the flow of time itself? I hope this might convert some of you skeptics here.... Please reply 1) Wrong forum 2) No offence, but that is a very pathetic argument. By your reasoning, there's no reason for any kind of any to exist without some higher power. And since all sorts of different energies would be required to create matter, and it's physically impossible to create mass out of nothing, therefore making it impossible to create energy out of nothing as well, it would be impossible for anything to even exist anyway. On top of that, any form of consciousness, including God's, requires energy, therefore it would be impossible for He/She/It to exist anyway. On top of that, you assume that God just simply existed always, and did not need to come into existence, in which case the same could be said of matter anyway. Therefore the most logical assumption would be that matter is what always existed, as there is proof of matter but not of any higher power. Reply to that with a well thought out argument, assuming religious people can even do that. (Wow, who would have thought I'd turn into one of them?

[tehpwner]

Thats insulting my friend.... Obviously you have not read the bible a lot have you? Anyway i will come up with an argument, I was simply stating that for the flow of time to appear all of a sudden? To me that is as far fetched as you athiests as a god existing...... EDIT Who says that gods have to exist from energy? After all he/she is all powerfull and created energy itself

[♥Mark]

I'm sorry? An insult? No, I mean, if the universe exists, then obviously Scientology is correct.

[tehpwner]

Sorry hear me out here.. The earth if it was any smaller an atmosphere would be impossible... if it was bigger it would only contain free hydrogen, and it has the right mixes of gas food "equipment" etc. for animal life plant life and human life to exist. The earth is located excactly at the right distance from the sun. If we were any close, i litterely mean ANY closer we would all burn, any farther and we would all freeze. The earth also has the right angles and axis to warm and cool it for the life to survive. There is many other factors which i wont get into... yet

[Bad Wolf]

Thats insulting my friend.... Obviously you have not read the bible a lot have you? Anyway i will come up with an argument, I was simply stating that for the flow of time to appear all of a sudden? To me that is as far fetched as you athiests as a god existing...... EDIT Who says that gods have to exist from energy? After all he/she is all powerfull and created energy itself Who said the flow of time just suddenly appeared? Just as matter and energy always existed, so did time, as time of some sort is required for anything to exist. And becoming an atheist is part of my personal development, just as either being brainwashed by religion, succumbing to your fears of your life being but a limited existence, wanting a meaning for your existence aside from existing to exist, or one of many other things caused to become a theist as part of yours. As to God not having to exist from energy, God would merely be a consciousness with profound powers, however, consciousness of any kind requires thought, and since thought is composed of energy so must God. And unless God is exempt from the natural laws of the universe, and can also destroy and recreate them, it is not possible for he/she/it to create energy. Note: I in no way imply that I wholeheartedly believe that we have a limited existence, as I somewhat believe in reincarnation (I haven't yet entirely made up my mind), but that in no way limits or discredits anything I have said. Sorry hear me out here.. The earth if it was any smaller an atmosphere would be impossible... if it was bigger it would only contain free hydrogen, and it has the right mixes of gas food "equipment" etc. for animal life plant life and human life to exist. The earth is located excactly at the right distance from the sun. If we were any close, i litterely mean ANY closer we would all burn, any farther and we would all freeze. The earth also has the right angles and axis to warm and cool it for the life to survive. There is many other factors which i wont get into... yet That statement implies that in order for a mass of asteriods to begin colliding with each other, settling into orbit at just the right position for life to eventually develop, some higher power to develop. As for the rest of the post, you didn't pay any attention during Biology, did you?

[tehpwner]

Firstly im in grade 8 i dont have bio yet, secondly the odds of this excact lifesetting to happen is probably 1 to a 100 googleplex? Also what CAUSED THE FLOW OF TIME TO START It does not start itself........ it cannot start itself! Everything that is started has to be started by SOMETHING! for some reason i cannot grasp the fact that time could have always existed God is exempt from the natural laws of the universe... he/she is the universe... he/she is everything. You obviously dont know what i am talking about? Please read up on the cathlioc bible and figure out what im talking about.

[çrepgrigo]

Firstly im in grade 8 i dont have bio yet, secondly the odds of this excact lifesetting to happen is probably 1 to a 100 googleplex? Also what CAUSED THE FLOW OF TIME TO START It does not start itself........ it cannot start itself! Everything that is started has to be started by SOMETHING! for some reason i cannot grasp the fact that time could have always existed God is exempt from the natural laws of the universe... he/she is the universe... he/she is everything. You obviously dont know what i am talking about? Please read up on the cathlioc bible and figure out what im talking about. It didn't start itself. It has always existed.

[♥Mark]

Sorry hear me out here.. The earth if it was any smaller an atmosphere would be impossible... if it was bigger it would only contain free hydrogen, and it has the right mixes of gas food "equipment" etc. for animal life plant life and human life to exist. The earth is located excactly at the right distance from the sun. If we were any close, i litterely mean ANY closer we would all burn, any farther and we would all freeze. The earth also has the right angles and axis to warm and cool it for the life to survive. There is many other factors which i wont get into... yet Oh, I understand. You're saying that Islam is the one true faith.

[tehpwner]

... How the hell does that relate to islam at all? i am stating that there IS a higher power, im not saying that anything is 1 true faith! I know that there is a higher power

[♥Mark]

... How the hell does that relate to islam at all? i am stating that there IS a higher power, im not saying that anything is 1 true faith! I know that there is a higher power I'm confused. Obviously this proves God, so converting to Islam only makes sense.

[Bad Wolf]

Wow, I actually know what a googleplex is. In any case, you assume that this is the only planet with life in the universe, and apparently don't know the meaning of the word probability. Statistically speaking, a huge hunk of rock bearing amounts of each element with the amount each element being at least, if not more than, enough to eventually start and maintain life with the rock being close enough to a star to eventually support life after countless years of development would have to happen somewhere, some when in the universe. And I see you still cannot comprehend how time could always exist, but somehow God can. And you seem to believe that God, for some reason that you do not even question, is exempt from the natural laws of the universe, when those laws apply to everything that resides in the universe. In order for God to be exempt from those laws, he would have to exist outside the universe, meaning he would have to be in a universe separate from our own that somehow bears laws different from our own. Even then, that universe would have to have time started by some all powerful force, thereby concluding that it is impossible for God to exist. Why am I even bothering trying to explain this to you? I horrible at explaining things, and you're only what, 13? I may only be a few years older than you, but you still have a lot of personal development to undergo, and it may well be a very long time before you reach the point at which you start questioning things that you would never even dream of questioning at the moment. The truth is, just as you can't force someone who refuses to eat to eat, you can't force someone to change their beliefs. Only that person can do so, and even then it is mostly out of their control.

[çrepgrigo]

I'm confused. Obviously this proves God, so converting to Islam only makes sense. Your very confusing. :P

[Bad Wolf]

Your very confusing. Mark is never serious. If he ever says he is never serious, he isn't being serious about that either.

[tehpwner]

Im glad to see some sort of amusement coming out of this thread XD, anyway, ill try a different approach, a general rule of the universe is that anything that exists has a creation, this applies inside the universe, why does it not apply to the universe? one more thing i also need to say, we are debating at different levels here, its hard to explain do you know what i mean?

[çrepgrigo]

Im glad to see some sort of amusement coming out of this thread XD, anyway, ill try a different approach, a general rule of the universe is that anything that exists has a creation, this applies inside the universe, why does it not apply to the universe Do you mean Creator?

[♥Mark]

Supergod in three... two...

[tehpwner]

yes i do, sorry that was a type i am eating hot dogs right now, and please Mark if your not going to be serious leave this thread

[Bad Wolf]

Going by that assumption, God would also have to be created to exist. The only way for that to happen would be for either 1) God creates himself and time after both he and time exists, or 2) God goes back in time. Either way way is not only highly unlikely, but also highly speculative. I have yet to see or hear of anything that could not easily be attributed to parapsycholigical phenomena, and therefore fall under the laws of the universe (which is means the same thing as the laws of physics, just in case you didn't figure that out for some reason). And about Mark, you posted in the Beyond Dreaming forum, and it is his self-given duty to keep all topics in this forum from constantly staying serious.

[tehpwner]

ok then... but the entire point im trying to get at is that god is the universe, he is everything yet he/she is nothing, he is all mighty, however your logic is not flawed, but the thing is he was there at the beggening, on different levels of existance, and time, on parralell dimmensions etc

[♥Mark]

Jones' Brand Soda is the universe.

[Rainman]

This thread belongs in the Religion/Spirituality forum. Tehpwner, first of all, don't bother starting a thread like this again, it will get you no where but flamed. Second, this is a stalemate because you cannot provide conclusive evidence that there is a god, but athiests cannot provide conclusive evidence that there is not a god. No one wins. Third, the best way to handle insults in this forum, as I've learned, is to return the favour. Fourth, you cannot force god on anyone. I am a "Christian", I put that in quotes, only because the name of Christianity has been fucked up time and time again by idiots who do idiotic things and then claim to be Christian when they don't act like them. You can't force god on people. That's why I'm so against kids being born into a religion. It's not real faith, it's forced faith. If they don't believe in god, that's not your problem. You do, I do, many people do, many people don't. That's the way it is, and the way it will always be. He is real to us, so let him be real to us. We'll know what it's like to be under his care, others won't, and there's nothing wrong with that. The beauty about the mind is that everyone thinks differently. You can try to show them different sides of things, (most of them will never listen to you, and repeatedly tell you how [insert standard intelligence-degrading insult here] you are) but you cannot try to force the idea upon them. It's their choice to feel how they feel.