Thread: Why would you not belive in a god?

Originally Posted by thegnome54

Because I have pride and refuse to pander to such a fickle God if he does exist, and if he doesn't, one hour of every sunday (given a 75 year life span) means spending 162 and a half days listening to some old fart spew self-congratulatory bullshit about how right we all are.

Also, because there is no evidence in favor the existence of a God and so I refuse to believe it by principle. Now, your turn:

Why would you not believe in Thor? Thor will go apeshit on you if you die before you accept him as your savior, you know.

absence of evidence my friend is not evidence of absence. i would much rather be safe than sorry, i dont belive in thor beacause there is actual evidence of his absence (he was invented by ancients who thought he was lightning or created lightning).

You didn't really just say that, did you?

Originally Posted by Mark75

You didn't really just say that, did you?

im not even going to bother arguing with you beacause its just a waste of time. i know what you will try to do, in fact this guy defined it quite well http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=51246

he made multiple good points about what this board has turned into, i just wanted to make my point and see what people thought. i didnt ask for you to attempt to grind it into the ground

Originally Posted by Jdog

absence of evidence my friend is not evidence of absence.

Right, that's why I'm not claiming to know either way.

Originally Posted by Jdog

i would much rather be safe than sorry, i dont belive in thor beacause there is actual evidence of his absence (he was invented by ancients who thought he was lightning or created lightning).

Alright, Mr. Smarty-Pants, what about Ganesh, then? Or what if we're wrong about thunder and lightning, and it really is Thor? How do you know?

My other main objection to this point is the assumption that if a god does exist, he would be impressed by such a display of half-hearted lip service.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

Right, that's why I'm not claiming to know either way.



Alright, Mr. Smarty-Pants, what about Ganesh, then? Or what if we're wrong about thunder and lightning, and it really is Thor? How do you know?

My other main objection to this point is the assumption that if a god does exist, he would be impressed by such a display of half-hearted lip service.

i imagine if a god did exist then he would be much more impressed with my "lip sevice" then you total deniance.

Do you honestly think you can just "decide to believe in god?" That's not belief at all.

You can tell people you believe all you want, go to every church service from now until you die, but that doesn't mean you believe.

(snipped)

Edit: nevermind, my head is foggy with sleep. Goodnight.

Originally Posted by Jdog

i imagine if a god did exist then he would be much more impressed with my "lip sevice" (sic) then you (sic) total deniance. (sic)

I imagine the opposite. God wouldn't be interested in someone who was merely playing the odds trying to avoid eternal damnation.

Originally Posted by Jdog

im just saying why not belive in a god, it cant possibly hurt you, in fact most religious folks are happier than atheists.

Believing in god who hates you unless you follow his every rule wouldn't hurt you? How on earth could you find belief in someone like that comforting?

And please tell me where you came up with "most religious folks are happier than atheists." How does their higher divorce rate and incredibly higher chance of going to jail support that?

Originally Posted by Jdog

i dont belive in thor beacause there is actual evidence of his absence (he was invented by ancients who thought he was lightning or created lightning).

My dear, the Christian God was invented as well, and there is no evidence to support his actual existence.




Being an atheist is comforting for me beyond what mere words could convey.

I'm yet unaware as to the status of your footwear.

i came up with the "most religious folks are happier than atheists" from my general experience in life. i have both atheist and religious friends, and most of the time those religious friends are the ones who seem to be quite happy with what they have, rather than always searching for something more.

Originally Posted by Jdog

i came up with the "most religious folks are happier than atheists" from my general experience in life. i have both atheist and religious friends, and most of the time those religious friends are the ones who seem to be quite happy with what they have, rather than always searching for something more.

Always searching for something more is what drives scientific discovery, man.

You can't argue with statistics. Obviously you are either drawing the wrong conclusions from your friends, or your friends terribly misrepresent society in general.

I think you will be much more fulfilled at bibleforums.net than here.

Originally Posted by Jdog

most of the time those religious friends are the ones who seem to be quite happy with what they have, rather than always searching for something more.

That's not happiness, it's the slow death of human curiosity.

Originally Posted by Ne-yo

Mes Tarrant, that statement alone you made shows indication that you possess maybe not much, but a little belief in GOD.

What statement? Could you please clarify on what you mean? Thank you.

Originally Posted by Jdog

i came up with the "most religious folks are happier than atheists" from my general experience in life. i have both atheist and religious friends, and most of the time those religious friends are the ones who seem to be quite happy with what they have, rather than always searching for something more.

I have a friend who had a brief Campus Crusade period in college and still has friends from then. They all got married in their early twenties, and every one of the women she stayed in touch with came to her in tears within two years, convinced that they'd failed God in their marriage because their sex lives were so dysfunctional.

I'd just like to point out that pascal's wager is an outdated bit of half-assed philosophy invented to rationalize the indoctrinated beliefs held by an otherwise purely logical thinking man. When Blaise Pascal first presented this argument more than 300 years ago, he was operating under the assumption that there were only two options; the belief that there is no god, or the belief in the Christian god. Obviously there are as many different options as there are human brains to conceive them and more, so this reasoning holds no water.


Am I honestly the first person to use the phrase 'pascal's wager' in this thread?

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

I hear this a lot from theists these days. I think this is just something that theists want to think about atheists in order to justify their belief in a god of some sort. Yes, in fact, I think it's as simple as that.

I am telling you that atheists are not any more depressed than theists (again, just look at various published statistics). If this is the case, why is it still better to believe in something and then be proven wrong in death than to not believe in something and find that god does exist? To me, the latter option sounds much more exciting! So I went all my life thinking that there probably is no god... and then I die and presto, my spirit is still alive because I was wrong! Sounds like a party to me!

But wouldn't it be a bitch to find out that that party entailed an eternity of suffering beyond your most hellish nightmares on account of your abandoned and heathenistic lifestyle?

Mes Tarrant, that statement alone you made shows indication that you possess maybe not much, but a little belief in GOD.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Being an atheist is comforting for me beyond what mere words could convey.

I try my best baby.. I know..

Originally Posted by Jdog

i imagine if a god did exist then he would be much more impressed with my "lip sevice" then you total deniance.

I do not deny; nor do I assume.


Now I ask you again: why do you not pray to Ganesh as well, just to be safe?

Originally Posted by thegnome54

I do not deny; nor do I assume.


Now I ask you again: why do you not pray to Ganesh as well, just to be safe?

and excelent point. i honestly dont know why, i dont pray to a specific god hell i dont pray at all, whenever i have problems i dont think "please god help me" i think how can i fix this problem. i dont count on god to fix my problems or even help me in any way, i count on myself. that doesnt mean i cant belive there is a god in some form

That isn't believing in God.

Yes, why not pray to Shiva or Ganesh?

Originally Posted by Jdog

and excelent point. i honestly dont know why, i dont pray to a specific god hell i dont pray at all, whenever i have problems i dont think "please god help me" i think how can i fix this problem. i dont count on god to fix my problems or even help me in any way, i count on myself. that doesnt mean i cant belive there is a god in some form

Okay. Now I understand better where you are coming from.

The problem with believing in just some random idea of what you think god is is simply a waste of time. How do you know that if there is a god out there, that you are completely wrong about everything that he wants of you? What if he doesn't actually want you to waste your time believing in him? How do you know? The answer is you don't know, so the logical solution would be to forget about his existence or non-existence and enjoy all the things about life that you are certain about.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Okay. Now I understand better where you are coming from.

The problem with believing in just some random idea of what you think god is is simply a waste of time. How do you know that if there is a god out there, that you are completely wrong about everything that he wants of you? What if he doesn't actually want you to waste your time believing in him? How do you know? The answer is you don't know, so the logical solution would be to forget about his existence or non-existence and enjoy all the things about life that you are certain about.

an excelent point. thats preaty much the way i live anyway i enjoy the things im certin about. i still belive there may be a god in some form, and i do belive that the 10 commandments are at least a good set of guidelines to live your life by. but every time i have a problem i dont even expect any help from anyone but myself or my friends

This is a pugnatious thread. I'm a Christian, I believe in God, and I do not belive that atheism is the right path to follow, but if you are trying to convince the other side that they're wrong, this isn't the way to go about it.

That said, I can't help but express my opinion on the subject.

OK, on the side of Jdog, it's like the argument that one of the philosophers from the Age of Reason in Europe made--I cannot remember for the life of me which one it was, perhaps Kant or Hegel--basically that God may or may not exist, but it would be better to believe and be proven wrong after death than to not believe and find that he does exist. Like so many things in life, one can never be sure.

Another point to consider is that there are different forms and divisions of Christianity; not all Christians (laypeople or otherwise) believe that gays will go to hell. Not all Christians believe that people who do not go to church will go to hell. As with any other group, stereotypes do not accurately describe every Christian. There are churches that preach fire and brimstone every Sunday (and Wednesday), and I have seen at least one, but my church isn't like that and it isn't the only one.

Last, and maybe most important, is that most churches teach that God forgives, the Puritans being the only exception that comes to mind at the moment. So yes, people aren't perfect, but that's why Christians repent for their sins, so they can be forgiven. It doesn't mean that you can't try to be better, but people make mistakes.

On the other hand, I can sympathize with those who do not believe in a Christian God or God of any sort. I went through a period of my life when I didn't believe. The most pressing question for me was, "If God loves us, why do we suffer?" Indeed there is suffering in the world, too much for a single person to wrap their head around. Why would God allow this?

Another reason people don't believe is that it isn't practical. There are so many other things one could do during that 1-3 hours spent at church every Sunday.

The last is another pressing matter: Why would a God who loves all send so many people to hell? Gays, people who have sex outside of marriage, atheists... There seems to be no end to the possibilities of people not going to heaven, at least according to the teachings of men.

Now I have my philosophy...or theology... Call me a heretic for some of these things, but I don't care. Excommunicate me.
1. The Bible is not infalible; it was written by human hand, and man is not infalible, so neither is his writing. Furthermore, many things are lost or distorted in translation.
2. The Bible shouldn't be taken word for word. Many of the things it says pertain to the times, such as restrictions on the power of women.
3. God forgives, so if you do something wrong and you regret it, you can ask for forgiveness and you will recieve it. I'm still debating myself in the case of something looked down upon but not regretted by the "guilty" party.
4. God appears to everyone as he will most readily accept him. Every religion has a savior and a moral code, most setting laws against acts of cruelty or waste. Again, I'm still debating myself a little, but I don't believe that God would send a person to hell simply for not being taught about Jesus.
5. As to why there is so much suffering, I believe that God proides strength to get through situations. We also have loved ones. Life is a trial, a test, if you will, and the reward for getting through it is eternal paradise. The Church is one community that helps to meet that end; it makes life easier when you can relate to others, unify and support one another and seek support from God.

My belief system is a work in progress; I don't think God can ever be fully understood, which is where faith comes in. If you don't want to believe, no one can make you. You just have to decide what is most important to you. I just think that an atheist's path is a cold and lonely one, with no hope for something better. That's one of the reasons why people do believe; sometimes they have to to keep going.

Rant's over, I promise. Sorry I overdid it.

Originally Posted by Semper Erato

This is a pugnatious thread. I'm a Christian, I believe in God, and I do not belive that atheism is the right path to follow, but if you are trying to convince the other side that they're wrong, this isn't the way to go about it.

That said, I can't help but express my opinion on the subject.

OK, on the side of Jdog, it's like the argument that one of the philosophers from the Age of Reason in Europe made--I cannot remember for the life of me which one it was, perhaps Kant or Hegel--basically that God may or may not exist, but it would be better to believe and be proven wrong after death than to not believe and find that he does exist. Like so many things in life, one can never be sure.

Another point to consider is that there are different forms and divisions of Christianity; not all Christians (laypeople or otherwise) believe that gays will go to hell. Not all Christians believe that people who do not go to church will go to hell. As with any other group, stereotypes do not accurately describe every Christian. There are churches that preach fire and brimstone every Sunday (and Wednesday), and I have seen at least one, but my church isn't like that and it isn't the only one.

Last, and maybe most important, is that most churches teach that God forgives, the Puritans being the only exception that comes to mind at the moment. So yes, people aren't perfect, but that's why Christians repent for their sins, so they can be forgiven. It doesn't mean that you can't try to be better, but people make mistakes.

On the other hand, I can sympathize with those who do not believe in a Christian God or God of any sort. I went through a period of my life when I didn't believe. The most pressing question for me was, "If God loves us, why do we suffer?" Indeed there is suffering in the world, too much for a single person to wrap their head around. Why would God allow this?

Another reason people don't believe is that it isn't practical. There are so many other things one could do during that 1-3 hours spent at church every Sunday.

The last is another pressing matter: Why would a God who loves all send so many people to hell? Gays, people who have sex outside of marriage, atheists... There seems to be no end to the possibilities of people not going to heaven, at least according to the teachings of men.

Now I have my philosophy...or theology... Call me a heretic for some of these things, but I don't care. Excommunicate me.
1. The Bible is not infalible; it was written by human hand, and man is not infalible, so neither is his writing. Furthermore, many things are lost or distorted in translation.
2. The Bible shouldn't be taken word for word. Many of the things it says pertain to the times, such as restrictions on the power of women.
3. God forgives, so if you do something wrong and you regret it, you can ask for forgiveness and you will recieve it. I'm still debating myself in the case of something looked down upon but not regretted by the "guilty" party.
4. God appears to everyone as he will most readily accept him. Every religion has a savior and a moral code, most setting laws against acts of cruelty or waste. Again, I'm still debating myself a little, but I don't believe that God would send a person to hell simply for not being taught about Jesus.
5. As to why there is so much suffering, I believe that God proides strength to get through situations. We also have loved ones. Life is a trial, a test, if you will, and the reward for getting through it is eternal paradise. The Church is one community that helps to meet that end; it makes life easier when you can relate to others, unify and support one another and seek support from God.

My belief system is a work in progress; I don't think God can ever be fully understood, which is where faith comes in. If you don't want to believe, no one can make you. You just have to decide what is most important to you. I just think that an atheist's path is a cold and lonely one, with no hope for something better. That's one of the reasons why people do believe; sometimes they have to to keep going.

Rant's over, I promise. Sorry I overdid it.

You, my friend, are a breath of fresh air after bibleforums.
I just want to respond to the last part because this is a common argument. I will speak mainly for myself but also atheists in general, but I don't think we are cold and lonely. There are times when we feel this way and we fill these feelings with loved ones and just the joy of being alive. I actually had more cold and depressing moments when I was a Christian and that were actually caused BY Christianity (can't go into details, sorry). I think atheists appreciate life more because we strongly believe this is all we get as opposed to this just being a test round for the afterlife. We also find much more serenity in the miracle (using this term unreligiously) of nature.
I know to a lot of people religion can be a great comfort and I think honestly some people really need that and can't find any solace in real life. But I am not one of these people.