Thread: Jesus is cool.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Easy way to move this forward:

Psychology student, if you accuse that Moonbeam's quotes were so blatantly out of context, please provide the relevant context that proves this to be the case.

Simple.

Touché *quickly notes this down*

Originally Posted by bluefinger

Touché *quickly notes this down*

Happy to help.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Happy to help.

And the help is appreciated

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Easy way to move this forward:

Psychology student, if you accuse that Moonbeam's quotes were so blatantly out of context, please provide the relevant context that proves this to be the case.

Simple.

I'm on it. By the way I have done so before, with regard to some of the quotes she used.

I get sick of that of that "out of context" crap. Bible verses are taken "out of context" all of the time. It's only when people don't like what they say that they use that line.

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

I get sick of that of that "out of context" crap. Bible verses are taken "out of context" all of the time. It's only when people don't like what they say that they use that line.

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

Yuk, dead-baby water.



I have no problem with Jesus protecting six-toed babies; however, he also supported all of the bad things in the Old Testament.

1) “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.
2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)
3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)
3b) "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)
3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)
4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)
5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: “He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.” (Matthew 15:4-7)
6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)
7) Peter says that all slaves should “be subject to [their] masters with all fear,” to the bad and cruel as well as the “good and gentle.” This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18
8) “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and “For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).
9) “...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35

I'm still new on the forums, and I know I haven't got any cred yet. In every forum I go to, I try to keep out of the religious threads; I think everyone should keep their mouths shut on the topic unless they're with people who share their beliefs. There seems to be a lot of religious discussion on this forum, and I guess I'll put in my two cents. Personally, I'm a Baptist. I know Catholics, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, and Atheists. I have friends of different nationalities, cultures, and religions. I feel completely comfortable around my friends, and they seem to be comfortable around me. I respect all of them equally, and whatever their faith may be, I think they're good people. We may talk about religion occasionally, but it never becomes a debate or an argument, because we're all civil and intelligent. I think it's completely disgusting that anyone could try to undercut someone's belief system because of their own anti-religion zealotry. I think it's completely disgusting that you would quote the Bible just to bash the text. Moonbeam, I've lurked this forum for about a year now with minimal posts, and every time there's a religious thread, I consistently find at least one post from you. No matter what the tone is, you have to tell everyone that you hate Christianity. You really need to take a step back and look at yourself. You might be as disgusted as I am.

This forum is for debating religion. You shouldn't be shocked when you discover religion being debated.

I actually clearly defined that I was offended at attacks on religion, not religious debate. There's a clearly drawn line between the two, and that line becomes far clearer when it's the same person attacking the same religion consistently in different threads and topic boards. If I haven't previously been clear enough, I'm fine with religious debate, I just often don't participate.

EDIT: Also, I'm not shocked, just kind of annoyed.

EDIT: Also, sorry about the overuse of the word "clear."

Do you support those things in the Old Testament which were quoted?

No, I don't take the Bible to be as important to Christianity as most Christians do. I disagree with a lot of the Bible, and I don't believe it holds completely true the morals that a good Christian should have. However, I know friends, family, and neighbors who hold the Bible, Old and New Testament, dear to themselves, and I respect them and their beliefs. I would never lower myself to such childishness to attack what they believe.

EDIT: It's easy to hate something when you only look for the bad in it. Take a look at the parts of the Bible that preach love for your neighbors, and loyalty to friends, and spit on that like it's garbage.

Was Moonbeam wrong for saying that the things she quoted were bad?

I suppose I can agree with you that my original quote was a poor example. In my post, I said that it was disgusting that one would quote the Bible to attack it. In the quote I used, she was not openly attacking it. I should have used a broader selection of quotes. If you read Moonbeam's previous posts in various threads on this forum, you'll find a genuine contempt for Christianity as a whole. I guess my post was better suited for a pm, because not everyone has lurked the same sections of the site, or been angry enough to remember some of the things in it, but I just really wanted to let my feelings be known publically. It's clear that Moonbeam is an anti-Christian, and her above post was out of context with the general malice you can pick up reading it with her other posts.

I'm well aware of Moonbeam's posting habits. Was Moonbeam wrong for saying that the things she quoted were bad? I'd like a straight answer to this question, especially since you've restated this:

Originally Posted by tfpo

In my post, I said that it was disgusting that one would quote the Bible to attack it.

Was Moonbeam wrong for saying that the things she quoted were bad?

I suppose I can agree with you that my original quote was a poor example.

Yeah, I was really being shifty there...

EDIT: I'm not defending the Old Testament, even though there are parts of it I agree with. As I previously stated, this would have been better suited for a PM. I was attempting to call to attention the consistency which that one individual attacked the Bible. When paired with the quote I made in my first post, you can see that it wasn't her moral values that guided her thoughts when she made that post. It was her hate towards a religion, and possibly an entire group of people.

I guess that's a no. That's okay. It's not like I asked for a straight answer or anything. I'm really not seeing what's disgusting you, here.

Meh, should have made that edit a reply. Just read it, consider it a reply, and then we can resume our debate...Argument.

EDIT: Also, that was as clear an answer as I can manage. I acknowledged that the quote was a poor example of what was fueling my posting rage.

EDIT: Also, I really don't want anyone to think that I feel fine about bashing anyone when they're not present to defend themselves. It wasn't my intention, I thought she was online.

Originally Posted by tfpo

When paired with the quote I made in my first post, you can see that it wasn't her moral values that guided her thoughts when she made that post.

How in the hell?

Religions, by nature, are an attack on all other forms of religion.

tfpo, if you're truly a baptist, then how can you not be angry at the rest of us for believing false nonsense which will get us thrown in hell? Your lack of outrage can only be a sign of one of two things - either you're not a 'true' believer, or you don't care about our eventual sufferings. Right?

Religions, by nature, are NOT an attack on all other forms of religion.

I am truly a Baptist, I don't have to be angry at the rest of you for believing whatever you believe, because I respect people's beliefs. I don't think a good Christian should attack other religions. Your entire post was just a complete stereotype of the overzealous Christians that give people a bad view on religion. THIS is what I'm talking about. Let's stereotype black people as stupid criminals. Let's stereotype Jews as greedy bastards. Let's stereotype Asians as mathematic weaklings. Let's stereotype Mexicans as being lazy. Let's all believe the first conceptions we have of anything. Then we can persecute and kill everyone we don't think is fit for society, and we'll have a perfect master race.

Originally Posted by tfpo

Religions, by nature, are NOT an attack on all other forms of religion.

I am truly a Baptist, I don't have to be angry at the rest of you for believing whatever you believe, because I respect people's beliefs.

Alright, let me put it this way - I am an agnostic. I do not believe in your God. Do you or do you not believe that I am going to go to hell and burn painfully for eternity?

This sort of ignorant talk is what started my little tirade. They're all posts by Moonbeam that offended me.

Theists can't stand that atheists think they're smarter than other people (which stastically they are likely to be, but that's beside the point).

The bible has lots of instances of not just people being "sinners" (yea, I know, all that golden calf worshipping and homosexuality and stuff, pisses God off), but of God and his clone doing very strange things (I mean strange if you think that killing and hurting people are bad.) I know that you probably haven't found those yet.

Lot has sex with each of his daughters (cuz the nearest town was a mile away and they thought it was too far to walk to find non-family members to have sex with), impregnating them both.

Alright, let me put it this way - I am an agnostic. I do not believe in your God. Do you or do you not believe that I am going to go to hell and burn painfully for eternity?

Like I said earlier, I don't hold the Bible to be absolutely true. I really believe that good people will be let into Heaven, regardless of whatever religion or lack thereof they choose to follow. I believe that people who mindlessly attack things that they don't understand, or refuse to understand will go to Hell.

Originally Posted by tfpo

This sort of ignorant talk is what started my little tirade. They're all posts by Moonbeam that offended me.

Sounds pretty on point to me.

Originally Posted by tfpo

Like I said earlier, I don't hold the Bible to be absolutely true.

I don't really know anything about baptist beliefs, being a heathen myself, but doesn't this mean that you're not a 'true' baptist?

Originally Posted by tfpo

I believe that people who mindlessly attack things that they don't understand, or refuse to understand will go to Hell.

You should probably stop attacking moonbeam's skepticism, then

My point about religions being attacks on other religions is that nearly all religions claim to hold absolute truth. Being religious, you are probably convinced that you are 'right'. This, then, means that you are similarly convinced that people with different religions are 'wrong'. Therein lies the 'attack'. I do not mean 'attack' in a necessarily violent manner, and you can well claim to respect the views of others while still 'attacking' them.

To me, if someone has a belief, and you say "I'm right, you're wrong", that's an attack. Moonbeam isn't even doing this, she's saying "I'm probably right, you're probably wrong, and here's why". There's a big difference.