Thread: Nontheist Friends

Originally Posted by Kael Seoras

Quakers who are atheists: http://www.nontheistfriends.org/

What do you think of it?

Well.. considering Quakers believe in a God (or at least I thought they did), I don't see how they can be atheists?

So if someone believes in God, but considers themselves atheist, I think they're confused!

But, if they're Quakers turned atheist, then that's their choice.

I like to draw a line between atheism and nontheism. Nontheism would include atheism and agnosticism. So yeah, it is possible to believe in something and be agnostic.

I think they believe in a "God" that represents human morality or something, rather than the traditional supernatural God...*shrugs*

Originally Posted by Kael Seoras

I think they believe in a "God" that represents human morality or something, rather than the traditional supernatural God...*shrugs*

Here's what Wikipedia has:

George Fox and the other early Quakers believed that direct experience of God was available to all people, without mediation (e.g. through hired clergy, or through outward sacraments). Fox described this by writing that "Christ has come to teach His people Himself."

Modern Friends often express this belief in many ways, including the attitude of trying to see "[the light] of God in everyone"; finding and relating to "the Inner light", "the inward Christ", or "the spirit of Christ within." Early Friends more often used terms such as "Truth", "the Seed", and "the Pure Principle", from the principle that each person would be transformed as Christ formed and grew in them. The ability to "see the light" or see "that of God in everyone" enables Quakers to cast aside more superficial differences and focus on the spiritual elements which connect all people.

Since Friends believe that each contains God, much of the Quaker perspective is based on trying to hear God and to allow God's Spirit free action in the heart. Isaac Penington wrote in 1670: "It is not enough to hear of Christ, or read of Christ, but this is the thing - to feel him my root, my life, my foundation..."

EDIT: According to this Quaker website.

Equality before God
From the beginning Friends gave women and men equal status, for the fact that we are all children of God bestowed an equality upon all. This concept led to the testimony that one person should not set himself above others through human honors and distinctions which were meaningless in the sight of God. From this came the Quaker practices of simple living, plain dress and plain speech.

So that leads me to believe they do believe in a God, a God that is in everyone, but also separate.

So I still don't see how they're able to believe in God and still be atheist!

Confusing boogers!

You guys are trying to stuff people into a box. Quaker is a lifestyle, someone can be a quaker without fitting into every single characteristic on wikipedia. It's someone's actions that defines them, not a survey where they fill in a bubble under strongly agree, agree, disagree or strongly disagree. If someone is living off the grid, adhering to the ancient lifestyle we have thus far associated with the word "quaker" and they call themselves quakers, I don't see what the difference is.

To sum up, words are symbols, let them be symbols, not prisons. If they use the word quaker, it's because they are drawing to your mind all your associations with quaker for your own understanding. It doesn't mean they have to fit the role-model, just that they're using the associations with that word to help others define them.

Another set of people who redefine words to suit their agenda.

Originally Posted by Serkat

Another set of people who redefine words to suit their agenda.

I fucking love those.

I don't see why you can't be a Quaker and an atheist, unless theism is strictly in the definition of Quaker. I don't personally know.

It's just that one group refuses to kill because it's against God's will, and the other group refuses because it's against morality.

I knew there'd be debate I knew it

According to everything I've seen to do with Quakers they believe in God, they believe that God is in people, and they believe God is seperate to it seems.

ATHEIST CHRISTIANS ON THE RISE.

last I checked, being quaker was a religion and a lifestyle, a lifestyle based on the religion

you take the religion away, the lifestyle is no longer backed up by anything. where as before you could say, I live this way because this is how God wants me to live this way. you take God out of the picture, im not sure how the lifestyle becomes valid anymore

Because some people find it is better to make moral judgements based on their own logical moral compass rather than having to be guided by a random collection of 2000 year old scribblings which endorse slavery, racism, genocide, war, etcetera.

Originally Posted by ClouD

I fucking love those.

I'm assuming, that by love, you mean hate.

Either that or loves them for the sheer amusment they provide

I get what Xei is saying...on the other hand it does nonetheless seem like a stretch, considering that, as far as I know anyway, Quakers believe in Jesus...although, could be that the nontheist Quakers like the philosophy of Jesus's teachings but just don't believe in hsi divinity.

Well from what I've gathered, they believe that God is in everyone. But, they also see as Jesus being the son of God and all of us being the sons/daughters of God. So by that, they believe also that God is a separate entity. As far as I know, a God is a higher being. So I still don't see how they're able to be atheist. But, everyone makes their own definitions up in religion, I'm sure they'll find one that fits them accordingly.

It's like me saying I'm an atheist Christian.

Originally Posted by tnemrot

I'm assuming, that by love, you mean hate.

Gosh, you're a quick one.

If only it were opposite day, every day.

Just today, then?

Originally Posted by ClouD

Gosh, you're a quick one.

If only it were opposite day, every day.

Just today, then?

See

Originally Posted by Serkat

Another set of people who redefine words to suit their agenda.

You didn't get it did you?

Originally Posted by Kael Seoras

Quakers who are atheists: http://www.nontheistfriends.org/

What do you think of it?

Mad Props.

That's what I think.

Originally Posted by juroara

last I checked, being quaker was a religion and a lifestyle, a lifestyle based on the religion

you take the religion away, the lifestyle is no longer backed up by anything. where as before you could say, I live this way because this is how God wants me to live this way. you take God out of the picture, im not sure how the lifestyle becomes valid anymore

The invention of God told man that he (man) was worthless, that his life is not as valuable as his afterlife, therefore what he does in life is not as important as it once was. Surrender your one life to the church.

Some people refuse to subscribe to that idea. So the lifestyle is essential for it's own sake; not merely because it is moral or right, but because it makes one happy; it is in tune with them. This is something people don't seem to understand anymore. They are too busy dancing for someone else.

At least that would be my guess; I know little about Quakers.