Thread: Why is sex such a sin?

Imagine a scenario that occurs every day with some unfortunate teenager in modern society. The girl gets pregnant. It causes a mess of problems that the family has to face (financing a new human life, giving time to rear it, and so on). Let's go further by imagining a hypothetical world in which we didn't just have sexual relations with a single person at a time, but with many. Besides the rate of pregnancy going up, you'd have children who's father's identity would be constantly unknown (at least without doing blood tests on newborns and all the men that had been slept with by the mother). You're going to end up with a lot of children. Population will rise further, resources will be drained at greater and greater rates, and I'll have a bigger headache. Living in a commune would be ideal for that scenario, but it would not be better than what we have now (might just be personal opinion).

Don't forget that back in "the day" there was no such thing as a contraceptive that worked.

I do not understand why simple needs of the flesh

That's one thing we should probably clear up. Sexual desire does not qualify as a need, as it is not required for the survival of an individual. That's also why it's called "desire".

Because sex feels good and people don't turn to the church when they are happy.

Idolfan=Christian?

Originally Posted by Idolfan

I can't imagine a heaven without sex. Even if I was a child.

Not all of us had an Uncle "Bad time".

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Sexual repression leads to more problems than it's worth!

I guess you found that out the "hard" way?

why is sex a sin?

if we travel back in time the mere mention of a woman's monthly cycle would leave people flabbergasted. you just don't talk about the woman and her body in public, a taboo that still goes on today in many ways

but back then it wasn't just taboo. the real reason was because the female body was held as itself..........sinful. because the female body makes men want to have sex. makes them urge and lust against their will. why women today in some places in the world, cover themselves head to toe. lest they bring shame onto others.

sex being a sin is always tightly wrapped up with accompanying ideas regarding the female body. the female being, the female condition, and what the female body can do, giving birth. making pregnancy, the origin of all human beings, the womb, a dirty nasty shameful thing. do we still see this taboo in our culture today??? the more sex is a sin, the more vile women are, the more they are abused.

when sex is a sin, men and women have terrible relationships. which actually lead to sex crimes such as rape. very counterproductive huh?

other cultures have historically held the female body as sacred. such to an extent, even the monthly period was surrounded by sacred rituals. holding the female body and all that her body can do as sacred, generated healthier relationships between men and women. and women were less likely to be abused.

but sex transforming into sin in a culture doesn't start with the female body. it starts in men who suppress their own feminine side. who denied their own emotions, who denied their own intuition, and instead relied on the written word to rule them. Becoming dried up stone cold men.

It's because fundamentalists are extremely jealous of people who have sex more than twice in their lives.

Uh...it really depends on what religion you're talking about. Catholics, oh fuck yes, they think EVERY pleasure is a sin. In fact, they think babies are born contaminated ("original sin") because of the fact that their conception is the result of such a sinful act...or some shit like that.

Surprisingly, I've heard from Mormons that sex for pleasure isn't frowned upon as long as you plan to procreate sometime in the future. I can live with that...

Presumably because it's highly enjoyable and therefore a source of pleasure outside of the church, as ninja says. Basically, anti-competitive behaviour to reduce the amount of people leaving the church.

We could also go further and say the concept of sin simply not true?

And thus discussing whether sex is a sin or not is not worth the time.

Originally Posted by Specialis Sapientia

We could also go further and say the concept of sin simply not true?

And thus discussing whether sex is a sin or not is not worth the time.

I sort of agree. The interesting question is why is sex considered a sin. This could of course be considered to be the same question.

Ninja and Invader both have it right. Monogamy is practical if you're trying to keep track of what kids you should prioritize as invader pointed out. Shame based religions need to get people to feel shame about something and fundamental human desires are about as good as you can get for that. Making an actual need shameful might just be a little over the top and drive away customers.

We COULD. But that would be completely changing the object of the thread.

Catholics shall die.

For Christians, God has always been about protecting his people.

Besides the great examples already given, there's the emotional and spiritual side to consider as well.
How many people suffer serious depression or suicide because their emotions were played on by others?

The Bible says 'marry whomever you will but only in the Lord'- meaning, marry those who share your religious beliefs. Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe in "playing the field" or dating for the sake of fun, sex etc. People in that religion don't "date" until they're of age and financially/mentally/spiritually ready for marriage. Then they find another Witness and start having chaperoned dates (so "desires of the flesh" don't cloud their vision). That goes on for awhile and if they want their relationship to "progress", they get married, have sex, and enjoy life together with or without children.

But young people often get together in groups and hang out, go to the Mall, whatever, it's just not male/female one-on-one type dates.

While sex is meant to be enjoyable, it's also meant to be sacred and handled responsibly. When we love our neighbors, ourselves, our God, we don't want to carry the possiblity of spreading disease from having multiple partners, or doling out the emotional baggage that often accompanies failed relationships. We want a partner who makes us a better person, strengthens us in all ways and who will always be there for us (as much as is possible).

Originally Posted by ninja9578

Because sex feels good and people don't turn to the church when they are happy.

I Disagree with this, sure people are way more likely to turn to the church in a time of need (especially people in the catholic church) than in a time of happiness but if a believer finds the right church community they tend to turn to the church in every emotional state. Call it a desire to be consistent or being brainwashed but there are many people that are active church goers who seek advice even when happy. While I feel that it probably is just a population control mechanism and an attempt to prevent blood feuds, if there is a loving God out there, it makes sense that he would want us to wait until marriage for sex. Doing so prevents a lot of stress for people that was generated by one night stands, and a loving God wouldn't want his lowly creatures to stressed out.

Originally Posted by Lucid_boy

I Disagree with this, sure people are way more likely to turn to the church in a time of need (especially people in the catholic church) than in a time of happiness but if a believer finds the right church community they tend to turn to the church in every emotional state. Call it a desire to be consistent or being brainwashed but there are many people that are active church goers who seek advice even when happy. While I feel that it probably is just a population control mechanism and an attempt to prevent blood feuds, if there is a loving God out there, it makes sense that he would want us to wait until marriage for sex. Doing so prevents a lot of stress for people that was generated by one night stands, and a loving God wouldn't want his lowly creatures to stressed out.

But if we didn't consider sex so sinful to begin with, one night stands wouldn't generate stress except in the case of STDs and accidental pregnancy.

Originally Posted by Licity

But if we didn't consider sex so sinful to begin with, one night stands wouldn't generate stress except in the case of STDs and accidental pregnancy.

I disagree, people occasionally become attached due to one night stands, this can lead to fighting between the one 'in love' and the one that is not. Also, if one member of the couple starts seeing another person exclusively, the person still pursing the the other can cause unpleasantness. I'm not sayng this happens all or even most of the time but a lot of drama could be avoided if things like this didn't happen. This is different from two people who are going steady and are in love but just haven't yet gotten married. Casual Sex doesn't cause stress because of what religious ideals think of it, casual sex causes stress because of human nature and thusly, a loving God, if it did exist, would want it to be avoided, knowing how wicked his creation is.

Woh woh woh, sex is a sin?

Originally Posted by guitarboy

Woh woh woh, sex is a sin?

Some consider sex outside of marriage to be a sin, I don't really agree though. All that the bible says about sex seems to me to say that two people just have to love each other and that only casual sex is wrong.

Originally Posted by guitarboy

Woh woh woh, sex is a sin?

no, it's not

Originally Posted by juroara

why is sex a sin?

if we travel back in time the mere mention of a woman's monthly cycle would leave people flabbergasted. you just don't talk about the woman and her body in public, a taboo that still goes on today in many ways

but back then it wasn't just taboo. the real reason was because the female body was held as itself..........sinful. because the female body makes men want to have sex. makes them urge and lust against their will. why women today in some places in the world, cover themselves head to toe. lest they bring shame onto others.

sex being a sin is always tightly wrapped up with accompanying ideas regarding the female body. the female being, the female condition, and what the female body can do, giving birth. making pregnancy, the origin of all human beings, the womb, a dirty nasty shameful thing. do we still see this taboo in our culture today??? the more sex is a sin, the more vile women are, the more they are abused.

when sex is a sin, men and women have terrible relationships. which actually lead to sex crimes such as rape. very counterproductive huh?

other cultures have historically held the female body as sacred. such to an extent, even the monthly period was surrounded by sacred rituals. holding the female body and all that her body can do as sacred, generated healthier relationships between men and women. and women were less likely to be abused.

but sex transforming into sin in a culture doesn't start with the female body. it starts in men who suppress their own feminine side. who denied their own emotions, who denied their own intuition, and instead relied on the written word to rule them. Becoming dried up stone cold men.

This was an excellent explanation imo...until the end. the last part makes it seem like you place all the blame on men, you have to know its more complicated than that.

IDOLFAN

I think you are right when you say that if two people are capable of having it without tainting the ego then it is not a sin.

BUT NOT QUITE...

Sins are of the FLESH.

The big deal about sex, in ALL of the spiritual traditions, has to do with Jing. Jing is semen (essentially). Sex is like puncturing an air shaft. The air wont get to your house if there is a leak. When you have sex, you spill your jing. Your most potent source of energy and power. This stops it from doing other things--like opening your third eye! To do that, you have to let it build up and keep compressing it. Celibacy (not letting your jing get out) can provide masssive energy for spiritual pursuits.

Jing is powerful, but it doesn't have to be used for sex. Instead of satisfying your sexual desires, you could harness that energy to make a business, build an empire, or become an amazing musician or as FUEL FOR YOUR SPIRITUAL SEEKING.

But if you would rather have sex, then by all means go ahead! Just accept the consequences.

Originally Posted by sephiroth clock

IDOLFAN

I think you are right when you say that if two people are capable of having it without tainting the ego then it is not a sin.

BUT NOT QUITE...

Sins are of the FLESH.

The big deal about sex, in ALL of the spiritual traditions, has to do with Jing. Jing is semen (essentially). Sex is like puncturing an air shaft. The air wont get to your house if there is a leak. When you have sex, you spill your jing. Your most potent source of energy and power. This stops it from doing other things--like opening your third eye! To do that, you have to let it build up and keep compressing it. Celibacy (not letting your jing get out) can provide masssive energy for spiritual pursuits.

Jing is powerful, but it doesn't have to be used for sex. Instead of satisfying your sexual desires, you could harness that energy to make a business, build an empire, or become an amazing musician or as FUEL FOR YOUR SPIRITUAL SEEKING.

But if you would rather have sex, then by all means go ahead! Just accept the consequences.

I'm going to risk being hit by Poe's Law here...

Seriously? Resisting the temptation gives you spiritual energy? Because in my experience, trying to avoid sexual urges is just distracting and physically unhealthy. And from what I can tell, those rich business owners, emperors and amazing musicians are having sex too.

Originally Posted by sephiroth clock

IDOLFAN

I think you are right when you say that if two people are capable of having it without tainting the ego then it is not a sin.

BUT NOT QUITE...

Sins are of the FLESH.

The big deal about sex, in ALL of the spiritual traditions, has to do with Jing. Jing is semen (essentially). Sex is like puncturing an air shaft. The air wont get to your house if there is a leak. When you have sex, you spill your jing. Your most potent source of energy and power. This stops it from doing other things--like opening your third eye! To do that, you have to let it build up and keep compressing it. Celibacy (not letting your jing get out) can provide masssive energy for spiritual pursuits.

Jing is powerful, but it doesn't have to be used for sex. Instead of satisfying your sexual desires, you could harness that energy to make a business, build an empire, or become an amazing musician or as FUEL FOR YOUR SPIRITUAL SEEKING.

But if you would rather have sex, then by all means go ahead! Just accept the consequences.

Please explain more. How exactly do I go about using my semen to construct an empire?

I can't see how something natural can be labelled as "sin". It is totally trivial to me. Same with obsession, how is that supposed to be a sin?

Strange world.

Hi Ryan, nice topic

Before I give my counter-points I would just like to state that I am arguing only what is sin and not sin. This is not a right/wrong debate - as far as I could tell this was a thread based on the bible/Christian use of the word sin.

Sorry if it turned out a bit long but here goes.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

I believe that all of God's commands have purposes. Purposes for the most part to lessen the hold of the ego and let us rejoice in the Spirit.

I would agree for the most part but you must remember that this 'lessening' of the ego, 'forgetting self' teaching is straight from new age teaching which are straight from Kaballism, but thats another story. Anyway, loosing ones self is not what the bible would have you do.

Proverbs 19:8
He that getteth wisdom loveth his own soul: he that keepeth understanding shall find good.

-

Originally Posted by Idolfan

However, to a person who is not possessive about sex, does not obsess over it, does not abuse women but sees it as casual, where is the sin? I can't see it.

It has nothing to do with feelings. People often assume that something is not a sin because it doesn't feel wrong. Remember:

Proverbs 21:2
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

-

Originally Posted by Idolfan

'Unfallen' cultures living in remote locations around the world (not affected by the transformation of the ego in the Old World)...

Unfortunately there's no such thing as unfallen humans.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

-

Originally Posted by Idolfan

...have society which actively SHUN all but one of the seven deadly sins BY THEIR OWN NATURE.

This reminds me of these verses:

Judges 17:6
In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Proverbs 12:15
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

-

Originally Posted by Idolfan

But when it comes down to lust... the sexual freedom is amazing. Many missionaries have been to such places and come back recognising that these people truly are void of possessiveness and other psychological discord brought about by the Fall. They are innocent of sex because they feel no shame in it. NO shame.

Proverbs 21:2
Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

It is still fornication no matter how the person feels on the inside.

-

Originally Posted by Idolfan

So, what I propose is this. Fornication is a sin because of how the human psyche RESPONDS to it... not because it is OBJECTIVELY immoral.

Gods law states that fornication is not something we should be doing. And what is a sin?:

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

-

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Once the ego is collectively lessened, where is the sin in sex?

Well from the verses above one could conclude that sex outside of marriage is fornication, and that fornication is breaking Gods law, and transgressing the law is a sin. So regardless of our ego, or how we feel - the bible still states that it is a sin.

-

Originally Posted by Idolfan

I can't imagine a heaven without sex.

Nor can I. There is no reason to assume that there wont be sex in heaven. It was in the original plan to have sex between a husband and wife so it is a safe guess to say it will be that way again.

Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away...

Thanks for the interesting topic, looking forward to hearing back from you.

Originally Posted by Licity

I'm going to risk being hit by Poe's Law here...

Seriously? Resisting the temptation gives you spiritual energy? Because in my experience, trying to avoid sexual urges is just distracting and physically unhealthy. And from what I can tell, those rich business owners, emperors and amazing musicians are having sex too.

It has not been proven, but some belive that when a man ejaculates, he you loses a little bit of his life energy. I read about a tibetan munk who lived for 114 years and during his life time he never ejaculated. It is possible that there might me some sort of connection between not having sex and living long, but I strongly doubt it has anything to do with career nor business.