Thread: Question for athiests...

Originally Posted by kingerman

Let's start with homosexuality.I don't know why homosexuality is wrong.

Proof that you do not think for yourself.

But one thing I can say is that when God made man and woman, He made them to fit perfectly together. Think about this, when two people of the same sex come together, they do not fit perfectly, one has to take on the opposite role or use some form of substitution. When you have one man and one woman, no substitutions are necessary; there's a perfect fit, and only God can create such perfection.

I think what was said about oranges is a perfect counter-example. Are you able to recognize that fact though?

Furthermore, do not make the gross prejudice that homosexual couples try to emulate heterosexual couples; it only demonstrates your ignorance and closed-mindedness.

Consider that people can love each other without trying to label or categorize their gender types. Consider that two women or two men can have a relationship without feeling the need to emulate a stereotypical relationship.

Your atheism is a choice.

Wrong.

Everyone is born Atheist.

You chose to believe in God. The onus is on you to prove to yourself that God exists. It is not for us to recognize that God exists. Nor can you prove that God exists but to yourself.

Just like an imaginary friend. It is a dogmatic leap of faith.

But what do we call those people that live their lives in accordance to something that is only real to them?

I thank God for my Freedom and that you can make that choice.
What you need to know for future purpose:
"Him who come untoeth me,
I shall in no wise cast out".

How are you free if God has decided everything for you to think and do?

You have already admitted that you do not know why you think the morals you think.

You have already admitted to not having an individuality.

Thus, how are you free?

A perfect slave is one that believes that they are free but still does the work.

Romans 8:1 "I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing
with the glory that will be revealed in us. The creation waits in eager expecation for the sons of God to be revealed".

In response to every one of your quotations, I will counter with another that you must accept - from the same chapters. If you truly believe that you must adhere to one part of the bible, you must do so to the rest. But I will be more specific for you now.


Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;


Contradiction - if Jesus is the Lord, why is he born from a seed of flesh?


Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.


Self-explanatory.


Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.


Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


Faith supersedes the law. Thus, you can do unlawful things that are still aligned with God (eg. kill abortion doctor's is a big one, but how about killing homosexuals? or oranges?)


Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


Wrong - Adam and Eve never existed. A simple browse through a fossil museum will illustrate this.

As a conclusion of you quoting a chapters from Romans, you must also adhere to the fact that all humans descended from the same two people (which is wrong by fact), that doing unlawful deeds is justified if done so by faith, that women are only good for sex, and that Jesus is a God but also a man at the same time which is an obvious contradiction.

I could quote more for you - from the same book - on request.

Let me clarify my words in a nicer manner "disease".No but it's It's lack of understanding and false thinking.

Interesting thing to say considering you do not think for yourself and admit to that.

About Atheists being good people.I would say that most people become atheists as a result of a painful experience, or abuse. They cannot understand how God would allow this or that, or they can't relate to God because of their warped view of father-figures (or lack theory), etc.

Wrong. It is quite the opposite.

As researched by psychologist Lee A. Kirkpatrick and Bowlby;

"...certain aspects of adult religiosity, particularly beliefs about God and having a personal relationship with God, can be predicted from the interaction of childhood attachment classification and parental religiousness. Respondents who classified their childhood relationships as avoidant ... were more religious as adults, according to several measures, than were those classifying their childhood relationships as secure or anxious/ambivalent. Respondents in the avoidant category also reported significant higher rates of sudden religious conversions during both adolescence and adulthood irrespective of parental religiosity. These results suggest that God and religion ma function in a compensatory role for people with a history of avoidant attachment; that is, God may serve as a substitute attachment figure."

http://lakirk.people.wm.edu/

Statistically, atheists are the most likely to have grown up without a father figure, and interestly, are the most likely living a unfullfilling life.They don't like the idea of someone holding them accountable for their actions.

Still wrong, as shown above. You ought to learn how to support your statements with evidence rather than conjecture. Otherwise, you look like an ignoramus.

Originally Posted by kingerman

1 Corinthians 2:13-15
13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment.

Another justification from the book that does all the thinking for you. Of course, it is better if the slave believes that they cannot understand your orders for then they will follow them without question.

Furthermore, let me quote some more problems from the very same book.

Corinthians 2 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;


God is not merciful - a brief review of how he treats those that are unfaithful, women, gay, etc. will illustrate this.


Corinthians 2 5:11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.


Oh nevermind, I found a contradiction in the same book. Apparently God is both merciful and terrible. Or is he a living contradiction that envelopes all things?

Corinthians 2 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


Jesus was born without sin, then made into sin, thus making the real sinners sinless.


Corinthians 2 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?


Don't marry someone who doesn't believe what you believe. Also, don't be friends with them either.


Corinthians 2 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.


Oh, fear of God now. So much for mercy.


Corinthians 2 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;


Apparently the bible also says you do not think for yourself... and that you adhere to no thinking for yourself because all your thoughts are of Christ.

Enough of this book. I am sure you may not even reply to them.

Do we need to prove anything to you? He is not invisible to those who believe in him. His very Presence is with us every day. He is as real as our next breath. Just because you can't see him, doesn't mean he isn't real. He just isn't real to you. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. You have to reach out for the truth in your spirit, with a sincere heart. On that day you will find him.

In the words of Friedrich Nietzsche,

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."

You are trying to understand from an intellectual point of view.

Is this another way of saying that the faithful are not intellectual and do not think?

We are Mind, body and Spirit. Some people are not aware of their spiritual side at all. Sad, because that is really the only one that counts. Your Body will decay as will the world knowledge you have gained, die with you. Where will you be then? Only those who have the Holy Spirit within them, will be raised to eternity. It is the Spirit within them that will raise them up. If you don't have it, do you know what happens to you? You need to find out.

What would you think of your life if you wasted it all away by doing and thinking what you are told?

You have been given a lucky chance to be able to think and breathe and here you are wasting it away on something that has no reason or justification. It is a myth and exists only because of tradition and a group of other delusional people who think it is real. Of course, a delusion is all the more powerful if more people believe it.

Who is the real one losing out? Where will you be when you die? Nowhere, there is no spirit and there is no soul - these are more vague and ill-defined and imaginary concepts that soften mans fear of death and glorify their purpose in life. It is an egotistical and arrogant thing to think that you are the center of existence.

What you will lose in the end is your life. It will be a waste. Your life will be nothing but that of a sheep or a slave that willingly wears the collar while holding the key the whole time.

~

Originally Posted by O'nus

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;


Contradiction - if Jesus is the Lord, why is he born from a seed of flesh?

Its a contridiction if you think that Jesus and the Father are one in the same.

Originally Posted by ShadowNightWing

Its a contridiction if you think that Jesus and the Father are one in the same.

Who was Jesus' father?

Supporting that Joseph is:

Acts 2:30
Therefore being a prophet [David], and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne.

Acts 13:23
Of this man's seed [David's] hath God, according to his promise, raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus.

Romans 1:3
Concerning his son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh.

2 Timothy 2:8
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David. ....

Hebrews 2:16
For verily he [Jesus] took not on him the nature of angels, but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David.

Supporting that he is not:

Matthew 1:18
When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 22:45
Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

Mark 12:35-37
And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David? For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son?

Luke 1:31-35
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring for a son, and shalt call his name Jesus .... Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be seeing I know not a man. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee.

~

Originally Posted by O'nus

Who was Jesus' father?

Supporting that Joseph is:

Acts 2:30
Therefore being a prophet [David], and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne.

Acts 13:23
Of this man's seed [David's] hath God, according to his promise, raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus.

Romans 1:3
Concerning his son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh.

2 Timothy 2:8
Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David. ....

Hebrews 2:16
For verily he [Jesus] took not on him the nature of angels, but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David.

Supporting that he is not:

Matthew 1:18
When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 22:45
Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

Mark 12:35-37
And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the son of David? For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son?

Luke 1:31-35
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring for a son, and shalt call his name Jesus .... Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be seeing I know not a man. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee.

~

This is more of a standard case of linage. What you are assuming regarding if there is a contradiction is highly inaccurate. Take special notice of the main assumption in your argument. Children that carries their parents genes are the only ones considered to be legal decedents. This assumption can display a wide array of inaccuracies.

Legal kinship standings can be related to either genes or marriage, we see this in everyday life. Rather or not the physical gene came from Joseph is irrelevant in this case.

Originally Posted by ShadowNightWing

This is more of a standard case of linage. What you are assuming regarding if there is a contradiction is highly inaccurate. Take special notice of the main assumption in your argument. Children that carries their parents genes are the only ones considered to be legal decedents. This assumption can display a wide array of inaccuracies.

Legal kinship standings can be related to either genes or marriage, we see this in everyday life. Rather or not the physical gene came from Joseph is irrelevant in this case.

I realize the whole debate over parenthood and the relationship attachment styles.

However, the passages explicitly state 'seed' in reference to both God and Joseph. Maybe you could help me understand 'seed' in this respect because it seems quite contrary to what you are saying.

Either way, this is a very mundane detail that only proves my original point; there are vagaries and severe problems with the bible's interpretations. Furthermore, imagine that this is a translation and what the original actually says. The very point I was trying to make is that there are severe problems with the bible and I honestly think it ought not be followed by any sane person.

~

I found some intesesting facts about the bible.

There have been hundreds of books written on the subject of the evidences of the divine inspiration of the Bible, and these evidences are many and varied. Most people today, unfortunately, have not read any of these books. In fact, few have even read the Bible itself! Thus, many people tend to go along with the popular delusion that the Bible is full of mistakes and is no longer relevant to our modern world.

Nevertheless the Bible writers claimed repeatedly that they were transmitting the very Word of God, infallible and authoritative in the highest degree. This is an amazing thing for any writer to say, and if the forty or so men who wrote the Scriptures were wrong in these claims, then they must have been lying, or insane, or both.

But, on the other hand, if the greatest and most influential book of the ages, containing the most beautiful literature and the most perfect moral code ever devised, was written by deceiving fanatics, then what hope is there for ever finding meaning and purpose in this world?

If one will seriously investigate these Biblical evidences, he will find that their claims of divine inspiration (stated over 3,000 times, in various ways) were amply justified.

Fulfilled Prophecies

The remarkable evidence of fulfilled prophecy is just one case in point. Hundreds of Bible prophecies have been fulfilled, specifically and meticulously, often long after the prophetic writer had passed away.

For example, Daniel the prophet predicted in about 538 BC (Daniel 9:24-27) that Christ would come as Israel's promised Savior and Prince 483 years after the Persian emperor would give the Jews authority to rebuild Jerusalem, which was then in ruins. This was clearly and definitely fulfilled, hundreds of years later.

There are extensive prophecies dealing with individual nations and cities and with the course of history in general, all of which have been literally fulfilled. More than 300 prophecies were fulfilled by Christ Himself at His first coming. Other prophecies deal with the spread of Christianity, as well as various false religions, and many other subjects.

There is no other book, ancient or modern, like this. The vague, and usually erroneous, prophecies of people like Jeanne Dixon, Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, and others like them are not in the same category at all, and neither are other religious books such as the Koran, the Confucian Analects, and similar religious writings. Only the Bible manifests this remarkable prophetic evidence, and it does so on such a tremendous scale as to render completely absurd any explanation other than divine revelation.

Unique Historical Accuracy


The historical accuracy of the Scriptures is likewise in a class by itself, far superior to the written records of Egypt, Assyria, and other early nations. Archeological confirmations of the Biblical record have been almost innumerable in the last century. Dr. Nelson Glueck, probably the greatest modern authority on Israeli archeology, has said:

"No archeological discovery has ever controverted a Biblical reference. Scores of archeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or in exact detail historical statements in the Bible. And, by the same token, proper evaluation of Biblical descriptions has often led to amazing discoveries."

Scientific Accuracy

Another striking evidence of divine inspiration is found in the fact that many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible long before scientist confirmed them experimentally. A sampling of these would include:

* Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40:22)
* Almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9)
* Law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3:7)
* Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7)
* Vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22)
* Law of increasing entropy (Psalm 102:25-27)
* Paramount importance of blood in life processes (Leviticus 17:11)
* Atmospheric circulation (Ecclesiastes 1:6)
* Gravitational field (Job 26:7)
* and many others.

These are not stated in the technical jargon of modern science, of course, but in terms of the basic world of man's everyday experience; nevertheless, they are completely in accord with the most modern scientific facts.

It is significant also that no real mistake has ever been demonstrated in the Bible—in science, in history, or in any other subject. Many have been claimed, of course, but conservative Bible scholars have always been able to work out reasonable solutions to all such problems.

Unique Structure

The remarkable structure of the Bible should also be stressed. Although it is a collection of 66 books, written by 40 or more different men over a period of 2,000 years, it is clearly one Book, with perfect unity and consistency throughout.

The individual writers, at the time of writing, had no idea that their message was eventually to be incorporated into such a Book, but each nevertheless fits perfectly into place and serves its own unique purpose as a component of the whole. Anyone who diligently studies the Bible will continually find remarkable structural and mathematical patterns woven throughout its fabric, with an intricacy and symmetry incapable of explanation by chance or collusion.

The one consistent theme of the Bible, developing in grandeur from Genesis to Revelation, is God's great work in the creation and redemption of all things, through His only Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Bible's Unique Effect


The Bible is unique also in terms of its effect on individual men and on the history of nations. It is the all-time best seller, appealing both to hearts and minds, beloved by at least some in every race or nation or tribe to which it has gone, rich or poor, scholar or simple, king or commoner, men of literally every background and walk of life. No other book has ever held such universal appeal nor produced such lasting effects.

One final evidence that the Bible is true is found in the testimony of those who have believed it. Multitudes of people, past and present, have found from personal experience that its promises are true, its counsel is sound, its commands and restrictions are wise, and its wonderful message of salvation meets every need for both time and eternity.

I imagine we've all had this conflict. It can really frustrate us if we're not careful. However, if we can learn to listen and think, God can give us confidence in the face of any argument.

It is interesting to note that most people who argue against Christianity are only “parroting” what they have heard. If pressed to explain what they mean, or to give examples, they do not know what to say. For example, someone may say, "The Bible is full of mistakes." But they are at a loss when asked to provide an example. As we learn to listen and ask good questions, we can respond with confidence and patience.

Another reason people argue is because they do not wish to submit their life to Jesus. People do not wish to admit their sin, so they cover things up with fancy sounding arguments. You may ask, "If I answered all of your questions, would you submit your life to Jesus?" Many times they will say, “no”, and end the conversation.

As Christians, we must work hard to know the truth and know how to recognize worldviews (the way a person thinks and the reasoning behind a person's thoughts). We must be patient and loving, as well, as wise.

"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander."
I Peter 3:15b-16 (NIV)

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth."
II Timothy 2:15 (NIV)

"Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will."
II Timothy 2:23-26 (NIV)

Read some some quality books that will teach you how to think and “see” false views and false questions. Josh McDowell has a good collection of such books. More Than a Carpenter is a good book to start with.

Remember, most people are only repeating what they have heard teachers, media, or other people say. Don't panic when you face opposition. Learn to listen, think, and how to ask them specifically what they mean.
Two men. Photo copyrighted.

Most importantly, stick to talking about God's plan of salvation (John 14:6). Don't chase rabbits! If you do not know something, just tell them you'll look it up and talk to them about it later. Make sure you stick to the good news of Jesus!

Originally Posted by kingerman

I found some bullshit opinions about the bible.

That's a suprise