Thread: Question for Atheists.

I don't understand the draw to atheism, it's a much less rational conclusion, almost arrogant even, to say were alone in the universe and everything just happened. Leaves alot of questions. No matter how high you climb the dimensional latter you're left with how that got going, you need something that is intelligent anmd beyond this physical universe and is eternal in order to justify everything else. The question should be what is God instead of whether or not God exists, it's such a waste of time in life...to be an athiest. You're basically not caring and giving up on what's over your head, not a hallmark of humanity if you'd ask me. We don't give up like that, atheism is truly the new world religion of apathy and indifference.

Originally Posted by hypnocella

I don't understand the draw to atheism, it's a much less rational conclusion, almost arrogant even, to say were alone in the universe and everything just happened. Leaves alot of questions. No matter how high you clime the dimensional latter you're left with how that got going, you need something that is intelligent anmd beyond this physical universe and is eternal in order to justify everything else. The question should be what is God instead of whether or not God exists, it's such a waste of time in life.

In that case, where did God come from? You could say he always existed, but then, why couldn't the universe have always existed in some form or another?

You're basically not caring and giving up on what's over your head, not a hallmark of humanity if you'd ask me. We don't give up like that, atheism is truly the new world religion of apathy and indifference.

How is lacking belief in god make a person apathetic to the question of where existence came from?

Originally Posted by hypnocella

I don't understand the draw to atheism, it's a much less rational conclusion, almost arrogant even, to say were alone in the universe and everything just happened. Leaves alot of questions. No matter how high you climb the dimensional latter you're left with how that got going, you need something that is intelligent anmd beyond this physical universe and is eternal in order to justify everything else. The question should be what is God instead of whether or not God exists, it's such a waste of time in life...to be an athiest. You're basically not caring and giving up on what's over your head, not a hallmark of humanity if you'd ask me. We don't give up like that, atheism is truly the new world religion of apathy and indifference.

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

In that case, where did God come from? You could say he always existed, but then, why couldn't the universe have always existed in some form or another?

You two give some good points. There's a lot for me to ponder.

I don't think it's a waste of time in life to be an atheist though.

Originally Posted by hypnocella

You're basically not caring and giving up on what's over your head, not a hallmark of humanity if you'd ask me. We don't give up like that, atheism is truly the new world religion of apathy and indifference.

Lol?

Originally Posted by hypnocella

The question should be what is God instead of whether or not God exists, it's such a waste of time in life...to be an athiest.

Without any proof or logic declaring a god hypothesis correct and calling the pursuit of truth a waste of time. That's what's being arrogant and giving up. No curiosity.

Originally Posted by hypnocella

I don't understand the draw to atheism, it's a much less rational conclusion, almost arrogant even, to say were alone in the universe and everything just happened.

Firstly, you have no idea what a conclusion is. Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity. It's not a conclusion that we're all alone, it's what evidence currently suggests. In fact drawing the conclusion we're definitely alone based on such little evidence would be stupid. Much like what you demonstrate in your post actually.

Secondly, true arrogance is the egocentric view that "I must have a purpose" and "the universe has to be here for some reason".

Thirdly, you should educate yourself instead of spouting the "everything just happened" line which seems so common amongst Christian propaganda artists.

. No matter how high you climb the dimensional latter you're left with how that got going, you need something that is intelligent anmd beyond this physical universe and is eternal in order to justify everything else.

No, sorry, declaring that the answer to this is "something intelligent" doesn't make it an answer. Blindly asserting this as fact is doesn't make it on. Ironic how you display the flaw you accuse atheism of by arrogantly assuming you have the answer, or at least part of it.

If it's possible for an all powerful god to have always existed, why could the universe not always have existed? And Occam's Razor states that the universe always existing is more likely than an all powerful god always existing.

The question should be what is God instead of whether or not God exists

Only if you're a closed-minded fool who is unwilling to entertain the idea that there might not be a god, and who assumes they have part of the answer to such things on no basis.

it's such a waste of time in life...to be an athiest. You're basically not caring and giving up on what's over your head, not a hallmark of humanity if you'd ask me. We don't give up like that, atheism is truly the new world religion of apathy and indifference.

You know what's truly a waste of time? Living in some pig ignorant backwater part of the States, being a closed-minded and arrogant fool who ignorantly dismisses things they have almost no understanding of.

Perhaps you should educate yourself on atheism instead of reeling off propaganda that happens to be completely false?

Originally Posted by Black_Eagle

In that case, where did God come from? You could say he always existed, but then, why couldn't the universe have always existed in some form or another?

How is lacking belief in god make a person apathetic to the question of where existence came from?[/

No matter how high you climb the dimensional latter you're left with how that got going, you need something that is intelligent anmd beyond this physical universe and is eternal in order to justify everything else

God is the rational conclusion, it takes balls to believe in God though, not everyone really wants that huge responsibility.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

Without any proof or logic declaring a god hypothesis correct and calling the pursuit of truth a waste of time. That's what's being arrogant and giving up. No curiosity.

Pursuit of truth=pursuit of God, curiosity of what is behind our existence, universe, etc, giving us purpose.

Originally Posted by Photolysis

No, sorry, declaring that the answer to this is "something intelligent" doesn't make it an answer. Blindly asserting this as fact is doesn't make it on. Ironic how you display the flaw you accuse atheism of by arrogantly assuming you have the answer, or at least part of it.

If it's possible for an all powerful god to have always existed, why could the universe not always have existed? And Occam's Razor states that the universe always existing is more likely than an all powerful god always existing.

Only if you're a closed-minded fool who is unwilling to entertain the idea that there might not be a god, and who assumes they have part of the answer to such things on no basis.

Some of this can all be answered in the responses above. Atheism is denying what you don't know, if you don't know there's a God than be an agnostic, or give evidence that God doesn't exist. Youve got to pick one of two irrational beliefs, that things just become purposelessly out of nothing with no intelligence behind it or things became through intelligent purpose with an eternal God being at the top of that latter. Then you have faith in that chosing. You chose the uncurious and accuse me of not being curious, you have a faith-based belief system called atheism, while I have a theistic belief system that I also have faith in. You and I differ only on what side of the God coin we flipped.

You know what's truly a waste of time? Living in some pig ignorant backwater part of the States, being a closed-minded and arrogant fool who ignorantly dismisses things they have almost no understanding of.

Perhaps you should educate yourself on atheism instead of reeling off propaganda that happens to be completely false?

Anger is a natural reaction to an assault on a long-held belief system, one that isn't without it's flaws. You could even describe yourself, which is ironic.

Originally Posted by sora12

You two give some good points. There's a lot for me to ponder.

I don't think it's a waste of time in life to be an atheist though.

Okay let me reword that, becoming an atheist, at least too early in life, is to give up that search. If we have one life we should make the most with our thinking and searching. I was raised Catholic and you kniow I believe it still, maybe your search for God is more complicated I can't say.

Originally Posted by hypnocella

No matter how high you climb the dimensional latter you're left with how that got going, you need something that is intelligent anmd beyond this physical universe and is eternal in order to justify everything else

God is the rational conclusion, it takes balls to believe in God though, not everyone really wants that huge responsibility.

Okay, 1. Why the hell do you need intelligence behind the universe?
2. Why do you need justification?
3. How the hell is God the logical conclusion?

Pursuit of truth=pursuit of God, curiosity of what is behind our existence, universe, etc, giving us purpose.

Look, more assertions...listen, why the hell should mankind require a purpose? What sort of naive school of thought makes you think humans are significant in any way, shape, or form? We're organized blobs of matter...that really is it.

Some of this can all be answered in the responses above. Atheism is denying what you don't know, if you don't know there's a God than be an agnostic, or give evidence that God doesn't exist. Youve got to pick one of two irrational beliefs, that things just become purposelessly out of nothing with no intelligence behind it or things became through intelligent purpose with an eternal God being at the top of that latter. You chose the uncurious and accuse me of not being curious.

The burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim. It is far from irrational to choose atheism, as it actually promotes skepticism and critical thought. Believing in God does not make you more open-minded or curious...more gullible, perhaps.

Anger is a natural reaction to an assault on a long-held belief system, one that isn't without it's flaws. You could even describe yourself, which is ironic.

Lolwut?

Open-minded Video time, Mario?

I'm definitely threatening to post...BOTH of them, this time. Just remember, he made me do this!





The second pretty much hits the nail on the head in this case...

Originally Posted by Mario92

Okay, 1. Why the hell do you need intelligence behind the universe?
2. Why do you need justification?
3. How the hell is God the logical conclusion?

1. you would have a stupid universe
2. why not???
3. cause no god is a bad one

look, more assertions...listen, why the hell should mankind require a purpose? What sort of naive school of thought makes you think humans are significant in any way, shape, or form? We're organized blobs of matter...that really is it.

Depressing!!! We're here for a reason, fill your life with thoughts why we would be if you don't know, but taking the easy way out by not caring isn't very good.

The burden of proof is on the person making the positive claim. It is far from irrational to choose atheism, as it actually promotes skepticism and critical thought. Believing in God does not make you more open-minded or curious...more gullible, perhaps.

What exactly do you base that on? People who believe in God are pretty skeptical and have criticism, that's why we have two opposing and different political parties in America, it boils down fundementally to theists vs atheists in a political form. ALso too I believe in two realities, you only one, whose more into the curious, open-minded spectrum?

Originally Posted by hypnocella

1. you would have a stupid universe
2. why not???
3. cause no god is a bad one

1. So what? Seems pretty damn random and chaotic...not really any sort of organized pattern to how galaxies are arranged, after all.
2. Because you don't need one. Derp.
3. ...right, because, you know, things just can't be left to their own devices. Surely, that would only lead to madness. Now I ask, who's being the close-minded individual here? You are absolutely dead-set on there needing to be some sort of divine creator, based only on your puny human reasoning, requiring no tangible evidence.

Depressing!!! We're here for a reason, fill your life with thoughts why we would be if you don't know, but taking the easy way out by not caring isn't very good.

It is far from depressing. Seriously, what do you hope mankind will accomplish? What the hell do you think we're working toward? What kind of dent could we possibly leave in the universe? Also considered that we could all be wiped out by nuclear war or a giant meteor...the only thing that really separates us from monkeys is the power of reason, and yet they seem insignificant enough. Just because you don't believe in a higher purpose of some sort doesn't mean you feel apathetic toward life. In fact, you'll find that many atheists live full, happy lives.

What exactly do you base that on? People who believe in God are pretty skeptical and have criticism, that's why we have two opposing and different political parties in America, it boils down fundementally to theists vs atheists in a political form. ALso too I believe in two realities, you only one, whose more into the curious, open-minded spectrum?

No, it is far too easy to conclude that "god did it, end of story." Attributing a divine to unexplained phenomena instead of looking for truth and what really happened is close-minded. There is no evidence for any sort of spirit, soul, or anything of the nature (Praise, don't...don't even go there. Just stop. Stop right now.). Demanding evidence is not being close-minded.

Originally Posted by hypnocella

1. you would have a stupid universe
2. why not???
3. cause no god is a bad one

Those are very poor reasons.
1. Humans are intelligent and it can be shown to within a shadow of a doubt how we were created by chance
2. Because it is far more likely that everything happened by chance
3. No God means that the universe is so massive that by sheer logic almost every physically possible phenomenon will have occurred. But that makes no sense, because we already know that the universe is small, Earth centered, and created by god, according to an unamended bible anyways.

Originally Posted by hypnocella

Depressing!!! We're here for a reason, fill your life with thoughts why we would be if you don't know, but taking the easy way out by not caring isn't very good.

Saying we have no purpose for being alive is not taking the easy way out. In fact it's quite the opposite. The easy way would be to think of yourself as more righteous than the next man because you lived a "meaningful" life. Thinking that we are free to do whatever we want and must find our own paths is the hard way.

Originally Posted by hypnocella

What exactly do you base that on? People who believe in God are pretty skeptical and have criticism, that's why we have two opposing and different political parties in America, it boils down fundementally to theists vs atheists in a political form. ALso too I believe in two realities, you only one, whose more into the curious, open-minded spectrum?

I believe that the flying spaghetti monster will emerge from his Etheric Plane, preceded by an army of meerkats, to take over the world and free the true believers form the evil Brownie-muffin. I'm WAY more open minded than you!

I mean SERIOUSLY, believing in a god not created by an omnipotent Italian chef is so closed-minded.

Plus, it's on the internet! If someone says so then it must be true! http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/H...#39;_Alignment

Originally Posted by Xedan

Those are very poor reasons.
1. Humans are intelligent and it can be shown to within a shadow of a doubt how we were created by chance
2. Because it is far more likely that everything happened by chance
3. No God means that the universe is so massive that by sheer logic almost every physically possible phenomenon will have occurred. But that makes no sense, because we already know that the universe is small, Earth centered, and created by god, according to an unamended bible anyways.

It was a half joke response, if you read the previous thread of mine you would understand more. But to kick back in to serious mode:

1. How non-imaginitive
2. How non-imaginitive.
3. How non-imaginitive, you're using that mind of yours way under it's potential I'm afraid.

That was also humorous, I had to do that, okay again:

1 & 2 & 3. Both overwhelmingly irrational and impossible, that molecules got together to form complicated self-replicating apparatus that goes out of the way to get energy, and burn energy to continue to replicate more of itself. Why the need to continue to exist and have progeny in dead molecular matter with no intelligence behind it?? And the evolution of life, the intelligence in life and mankind, Come on man, wake up, stop repeating the same parroted stuff about chance, there must be a website atheists goto and copy stuff from. Ironically you put faith in chance, and I'm silly for believing in the real force behind this spark of life.

Originally Posted by hypnocella

1 & 2 & 3. Both overwhelmingly irrational and impossible, that molecules got together to form complicated self-replicating apparatus that goes out of the way to get energy, and burn energy to continue to replicate more of itself. Why the need to continue to exist and have progeny in dead molecular matter with no intelligence behind it?? And the evolution of life, the intelligence in life and mankind, Come on man, wake up, stop repeating the same parroted stuff about chance, there must be a website atheists goto and copy stuff from. Ironically you put faith in chance, and I'm silly for believing in the real force behind this spark of life.

No, you're silly for putting a far more complicated idea into place where a much simpler one actually explains it a lot better. The website is called COMMON SENSE ABOUT SCIENCE.com. In fact scientist have taken molecules and put them under 'early earth' conditions, and the molecules formed amino acids, which can form life. And said molecules were created from stardust. That is, the matter flung into space after a supernova. Before a supernova occurs, the star, through the process of nuclear fusion, creates heavier and heavier elements, starting with helium. Those stars are formed from gravity pulling together particles in space, causing friction, which eventually exceeds 20,000 or so degrees and a star is born. Those particles came from matter/anti matter explosions at the time of the big bang. Any other questions about how we got from point A to point B?

Originally Posted by hypnocella

It was a half joke response, if you read the previous thread of mine you would understand more. But to kick back in to serious mode:

1. How non-imaginitive
2. How non-imaginitive.
3. How non-imaginitive, you're using that mind of yours way under it's potential I'm afraid.

That was also humorous, I had to do that, okay again:

There goes your credit. Bye, credit. Seriously bro, when debating, at least try to take it seriously...it is very difficult to pick up on sarcasm/humor over the internet unless it is made painfully clear, which it was not.

1 & 2 & 3. Both overwhelmingly irrational and impossible, that molecules got together to form complicated self-replicating apparatus that goes out of the way to get energy, and burn energy to continue to replicate more of itself. Why the need to continue to exist and have progeny in dead molecular matter with no intelligence behind it?? And the evolution of life, the intelligence in life and mankind, Come on man, wake up, stop repeating the same parroted stuff about chance, there must be a website atheists goto and copy stuff from. Ironically you put faith in chance, and I'm silly for believing in the real force behind this spark of life.

You want irrational? Which is more likely: that molecules began bonding in new ways and forming new structures, which ultimately got together in a sort of symbiotic relationship to form the early beginnings of life, or that some divine something-or-other has always been around, outside of time, popping up from god-knows-where, and interfering only at very select times? The first one really isn't that implausible at all, while the second one is what really borders on the impossible.

If you look at life, it is little more than a series of self-sustaining chemical reactions. Organisms receive signals from the environment to grow and adapt, the chemical processes keep one another alive and well, and each organelle in an organism has a specific function...namely, performing some sort of chemical reaction. Life does not need a guiding hand or some form of intelligence to continue living...it just needs the right conditions. If you put an amoeba in a solution of sulfuric acid, the harsh conditions will stop crucial chemical reactions and cause the amoeba to die...end of story.

Originally Posted by Xedan

No, you're silly for putting a far more complicated idea into place where a much simpler one actually explains it a lot better. The website is called COMMON SENSE ABOUT SCIENCE.com. In fact scientist have taken molecules and put them under 'early earth' conditions, and the molecules formed amino acids, which can form life. And said molecules were created from stardust. That is, the matter flung into space after a supernova. Before a supernova occurs, the star, through the process of nuclear fusion, creates heavier and heavier elements, starting with helium. Those stars are formed from gravity pulling together particles in space, causing friction, which eventually exceeds 20,000 or so degrees and a star is born. Those particles came from matter/anti matter explosions at the time of the big bang. Any other questions about how we got from point A to point B?

Let's pretend, for a moment, that neither side has any evidence for their claim of how intelligent life began. Let's say I've been living on another planet in a far away galaxy for my entire life, but have recently decided to move to Earth. To fit in with the native population, I have to start believing in one of these two ideas.

Option A: An almighty, intelligent being called "God" created the universe.
Option B: We were created from stardust.

Do you know how much more fun it is to say, "I used to be stardust" than "God created man"?

Originally Posted by Hidden

Let's pretend, for a moment, that neither side has any evidence for their claim of how intelligent life began. Let's say I've been living on another planet in a far away galaxy for my entire life, but have recently decided to move to Earth. To fit in with the native population, I have to start believing in one of these two ideas.

Option A: An almighty, intelligent being called "God" created the universe.
Option B: We were created from stardust.

Do you know how much more fun it is to say, "I used to be stardust" than "God created man"?

It doesn't make it any less true. The universe recycles itself. eventually the remains of earth will become another star, which will become another star, and so on until it goes into the making of a supergiant, which will go supernova. Then earth will once again be stardust.

Originally Posted by Xedan

It doesn't make it any less true. The universe recycles itself. eventually the remains of earth will become another star, which will become another star, and so on until it goes into the making of a supergiant, which will go supernova. Then earth will once again be stardust.

I didn't say either was or wasn't true. I'm actually not entirely sure what my point was... I just saw that you mentioned stardust and I was like, "wow, that sounds really cool!"

Originally Posted by Hidden

I didn't say either was or wasn't true. I'm actually not entirely sure what my point was... I just saw that you mentioned stardust and I was like, "wow, that sounds really cool!"

lol, sorry. For some reason (probably the fact that 'H' started your name) I thought you were Hypnocella. And I think it's fun because it resembles the whimsical term "pixie-dust."

Originally Posted by Hidden

I didn't say either was or wasn't true. I'm actually not entirely sure what my point was... I just saw that you mentioned stardust and I was like, "wow, that sounds really cool!"

Hahah, I know exactly what you mean. I would do the exact same thing.
"Join us and be a Christian. Learn the teachings of Christ."
"Join us and be part of the HAPPY FUN CLUB OF EXCELLENT AWESOMENESS! We came from stardust, and we're damn proud of it!"

I'm a gonna go with the second one. I don't care what it's preaching, it sounds like pure awesome.


Oh, and just something that I think applies to this thread...

Yay Touchyournose! Someone's read the books of Enoch!

Originally Posted by Hidden

Let's pretend, for a moment, that neither side has any evidence for their claim of how intelligent life began. Let's say I've been living on another planet in a far away galaxy for my entire life, but have recently decided to move to Earth. To fit in with the native population, I have to start believing in one of these two ideas.

Option A: An almighty, intelligent being called "God" created the universe.
Option B: We were created from stardust.

Do you know how much more fun it is to say, "I used to be stardust" than "God created man"?

I actually think it's far more tempting to believe we were made by god.

Because with that you get the totally nerfed ending of everyonehappy joy love everything ok no problems ever for any one we're all super special and never die ever because we are everything important and always loved and never alone and HOORAY!

That's more tempting than, we're animals, with no cosmic significance other than that which we ourselves grapple.

Originally Posted by hypnocella

I don't understand the draw to atheism, it's a much less rational conclusion, almost arrogant even, to say were alone in the universe and everything just happened.

The world view of most atheists is as rational as it can get in regards to the observable, objective world.

It's arrogant to say something happened? If taking the leap of faith to say things we saw happen actually happened, then how arrogant is it to say that things we can't detect happened? I'd say quite more arrogant.

Originally Posted by hypnocella

Leaves alot of questions. No matter how high you climb the dimensional latter you're left with how that got going, you need something that is intelligent anmd beyond this physical universe and is eternal in order to justify everything else.

Yes, it leaves a lot of questions. That's because we aren't afraid of not knowing. That's why we rather search for truth than base the world on complete assumptions, like the one I just quoted: "you need something that is intelligent anmd beyond this physical universe and is eternal in order to justify everything else."

Originally Posted by hypnocella

The question should be what is God instead of whether or not God exists, it's such a waste of time in life...to be an athiest. You're basically not caring and giving up on what's over your head, not a hallmark of humanity if you'd ask me. We don't give up like that, atheism is truly the new world religion of apathy and indifference.

A waste of time? To waste time you first need purpose. If there is no purpose other than the one we give ourselves, then no, nobody wastes their time except the ones that see themselves as wasting time.

You are the one giving up and not caring. Most atheist, as I said, strive to find out why things are the way they are. You just say "God did it". I don't know what kind of logic you use, but the first sentence presents "caring", as in searching for truth, the second one, saying, "God did it", is giving up on the search for truth. It is quite a hallmark of humanity: Surprise, surprise... at the time when atheism is on the rise, we're seeing the greatest achievements and discoveries in history. That's called not giving up, if you actually need a translation. The extreme side of religions showed its potential in the dark ages. If we're tipping to the atheistic side of things, I think the differences are clear.