Thread: If Religion / Science Never Existed..

Originally Posted by Jeff777

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1. If religion never existed, how do you think the world would be today? Do you think we'd be more technologically advanced? How do you think society would be? Would there be such a thing as "faith" and if so, what would people use it for? In essence, If all forms of religion and spiritual beliefs/practices NEVER existed.. how do you think we as humans would be today?

I believe we would be nominally more advanced from a technological standpoint, but morally in the dark ages.

Because we wouldn't know that it's wrong to kill without The Almighty Bibble.

But of course stoning children, commiting acts of genocide and selling people into slavery is all fine.

Are you people so obsessed with hating Christianity that you ignore the birth of humanity?

It was spirituality that gave birth to man. It was spirituality that made us walk of the woods in awe for nature. It was spirituality that made us wonder and question and realize there is so much more to life that what we know now. TODAY we call that ancient quest to find the answers of this mysterious universe religion. But that is ignoring that the time this most primal and most ancient religion was the cusp of human creativity and intelligence.

Without it, we would have continued living as mindless animals. Never questioning. Never caring to question. Science was born because of this spiritual curiosity. You take spirituality away from human history, science would have never existed.

Where would we be?

Naked and wild! (not that that is a bad thing)

Except we wouldn't be, would we?

I have a sense of awe at nature and it has nothing to do with spirituality.

My curiousity also drives me to 'wonder and question'; again, this has nothing to do with spirituality.

In fact what religion does is to substitute meaningless or incorrect answers to those questions. Science concerns itself with what is actually true.

Originally Posted by Xei

Except we wouldn't be, would we?

I have a sense of awe at nature and it has nothing to do with spirituality.

My curiousity also drives me to 'wonder and question'; again, this has nothing to do with spirituality.

In fact what religion does is to substitute meaningless or incorrect answers to those questions. Science concerns itself with what is actually true.

Meaningless? Some of these answers, even when incorrect, are pretty meaningful to some people. Is truth all that matters? What about personal truth?

I'm not religious myself, but I've known a depressed girl who started to believe in God very fanatically. It helped her to see life in a different and less depressive way. Before she felt alone, but when she had God at her side it made her feel like somebody was watching and protecting her all the time. This gave her faith in her life, which gave her energy, which she was able to use to do more with her life and so she became happier. I'm not saying that religion is necessary for everyone, but that it's very appealing to some people and that it produces real effects in their lives.

Without religion I can only assume we would have progressed much further than we have as a species and would be divided along slightly different lines.

Without science; I don't really think that's possible. Science is basically everything we've ever done to move forward. Without science we would be primitive, very primitive.

Originally Posted by Koalaman

Meaningless? Some of these answers, even when incorrect, are pretty meaningful to some people. Is truth all that matters? What about personal truth?

I'm not religious myself, but I've known a depressed girl who started to believe in God very fanatically. It helped her to see life in a different and less depressive way. Before she felt alone, but when she had God at her side it made her feel like somebody was watching and protecting her all the time. This gave her faith in her life, which gave her energy, which she was able to use to do more with her life and so she became happier. I'm not saying that religion is necessary for everyone, but that it's very appealing to some people and that it produces real effects in their lives.

Well, I find it sad that she couldn't find anybody else to fulfil that role, rather than somebody who essentially was a figment of her imagination.

Originally Posted by Xei

Well, I find it sad that she couldn't find anybody else to fulfil that role, rather than somebody who essentially was a figment of her imagination.

I find it sad you couldnt just be happy for her that she got better.

seriously...Im not very religious myself but I agree with pyro on his points.

Originally Posted by Xei

Well, I find it sad that she couldn't find anybody else to fulfil that role, rather than somebody who essentially was a figment of her imagination.

That figment of her imagination was something she shared with the people from her church. So she could socialize easier with them and feel more connected with them. They helped her to have faith in something to empower her. Does it really matter what it is from this perspective? As long as it's not harmful. Or do you think that religion is harmful?

Originally Posted by Xei

I have a sense of awe at nature and it has nothing to do with spirituality.

Spirituality is AWE. Spirituality is WONDER. Spirituality is wanting to know more, wanting to be connected. Seeking truth and unity. All true scientists that see a mystery they want to unravel are spiritual. Einstein was spiritual. You don't know what spirituality is.

I find it sad you couldnt just be happy for her that she got better.

seriously...Im not very religious myself but I agree with pyro on his points.

When did I say I wasn't happy for her?

I just find it quite a depressing fact about the human condition that people feel they have to imagine things in order to be happy; that they can't be happy with what is real.

That figment of her imagination was something she shared with the people from her church. So she could socialize easier with them and feel more connected with them. They helped her to have faith in something to empower her. Does it really matter what it is from this perspective? As long as it's not harmful. Or do you think that religion is harmful?

I think religion is at best inert. I wish people could just connect with each other due to their mutual humanity.

Spirituality is AWE. Spirituality is WONDER. Spirituality is wanting to know more, wanting to be connected. Seeking truth and unity. All true scientists that see a mystery they want to unravel are spiritual. Einstein was spiritual. You don't know what spirituality is.

Spirituality does not equate to curiosity.

Originally Posted by Xei

When did I say I wasn't happy for her?

I just find it quite a depressing fact about the human condition that people feel they have to imagine things in order to be happy; that they can't be happy with what is real.

Spirituality does not equate to curiosity.

But it takes a lot of learning to know what's real. What's wrong with the easy road when you look at it this way?

Originally Posted by Xei

Spirituality does not equate to curiosity.

All spiritualities will ask you to dig deeper for truth

Originally Posted by Xei

When did I say I wasn't happy for her?

I just find it quite a depressing fact about the human condition that people feel they have to imagine things in order to be happy; that they can't be happy with what is real.

I suppose you didnt explicitly state it, but the tone of your response just made me feel that way.

Perhaps that part of the condition is sad to some, but to me it is actually quite useful. There really are some people who are so loathsome to themselves that they need an external jolt to pull them out of it. I guess I just think as long as they arnt harming anyone else and they are happy then good for them.

Interesting posts. Thanks for the replies guys.

Originally Posted by juroara

Spirituality is AWE. Spirituality is WONDER. Spirituality is wanting to know more, wanting to be connected. Seeking truth and unity. All true scientists that see a mystery they want to unravel are spiritual. Einstein was spiritual. You don't know what spirituality is.

This is a bit ridiculous. I don't think you know what language is. Language is much more subjective than you're aiming to make out here. There are lots of different definitions of spirituality. Everybody has their own personal understanding of the word. Yours I quite like. It doesn't mean he doesn't know what spirituality means, just because you decide you do. Don't be so arrogant as to think your personal definition of the word is somewhat universal.

Originally Posted by juroara

It was spirituality that gave birth to man. It was spirituality that made us walk of the woods in awe for nature. It was spirituality that made us wonder and question and realize there is so much more to life that what we know now.

[citation needed]

Originally Posted by Replicon

[citation needed]

Travel way back in time, before we recorded time. There are many things all around you to make you feel you are more than just a body of flesh of blood. For one dreams. The brain of the first modern humans is the same as our brains today! If we can lucid dream, then they can lucid dream.

But you're a wild human. You don't have an advanced culture (yet) telling you that hallucinations and dreams aren't 'real'. So what happens when you, the wild human, has a vivid lucid dream? How do you think that would affect you when you wake up? There is a reason why humans began to believe in the spirit world. They had to have experienced something to make them belief they are more than just their physical body.

And if it wasn't lucid dreams, then it was psychedelics. And the great thing about these psychedelics is anyone could take them, and experience it for themselves. Which made it, to the wild humans, an objective shareable reality! Through lucid dreams and psychedelics we were tasting divinity! We were experiencing the duality of the mind and body. That the mind can some how 'detach' from the body. This possibly gave rise to the belief of the soul and the spirit world, and all the gods and demons in it.

But more importantly it took our attention from just trying to survive to something larger and more meaningful. Culture was born. And that meant for one, we were creating an abundance of artwork. By looking at ancient cultures that have survived today, art is magical. By carving or painting a creature you capture it's essence. And shamens could depict their spirit journeys to share it with their tribe

We wouldn't have true science until we had advanced math. And even then, our math was being used to count and measure the stars. Not for the sake of science, but for the sake to understand divinity.

Originally Posted by juroara

Naked and wild! (not that that is a bad thing)

Juroara, let's get naked and wild in the primeval jungle

And I completely agree with what you're saying... it was magical beliefs expressed through the first art that brought mankind up from an animal state.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Juroara, let's get naked and wild in the primeval jungle

lol....with fig leaves right?

LOL well, as long as you don't want some kind of crazy-expensive designer fig leaf....

Originally Posted by LRT

I believe we would be nominally more advanced from a technological standpoint, but morally in the dark ages.

We are morally in the dark ages. It hasn't advanced anywhere . People kill people for the same reasons as ages past. Allthough, if religion did not exist, we wouldn't use the worn and old excuses it has enabled us to invent.

We would have political and scientific excuses, which we already do as well right now.