Christianity- Presumed Modern Paradox

**Acid** · 04-30-2010 05:26 AM

A note I made for facebook, I thought it would be good to post here. Don't tear me to pieces, just tell me what you think.

This generation, the definition of Christian has changed dramatically. What does it mean to be christian now? Making fun of minorities? Telling dirty jokes to your friends? Making fun of the less fortunate? Incessantly jumping to conclusions? Gossip? No one knows. I suppose this is natural behavior in this generation, but all of the people that do this have one thing in common, their belief. To non-denomination Christians to hardcore Christians, they all take part in it every day. I suppose they have a reason, just like the supposed god does. The point in me writing this is not to make others feel bad, but to try and get their attention. I doubt I will be successful. When you go to church on Sunday, and sing songs about Jesus etc, and then come to school and continually bother someone, or deliberately make someone feel bad because they're different, you are most certainly not drawing people to your faith, which is your "mission" in the first place! Think about that, very seriously for a second. (Hypothetical) I go to church every Sunday, I talk to my fellow Christians about my belief, and we study the Bible for a few hours. We talk about treating others correctly, and being kind. We also talk about sharing the message of the lord, I'm very serious about my belief, and I stay away from ANYTHING that is negative towards god. [I guess this is because they're afraid of learning?] I come to school, and that day, I make fun of less fortunate children, I gossip, I make fellow classmates feel uncomfortable, and most importantly, I don't share the message of Christ to others who need it desperately. Trust me, I witness this every day, it happens. It happens to me numerous times a week.
For example, Thursday, (not mentioning names), I walked into the bathroom, and one of my fellow eighth graders asked me what exactly happened to my back. (I instantaneously thought that the only reason he was asking me this is because his friends were gossiping me behind my back, telling him about how I'm such a wimp about my spine) Well, I told him, and he didn't say much. Which is good, I expected laughter and a little insult like normal. But instead, someone else walked in started saying things such as, "Yeah, he was riding his four-wheeler but somehow he couldn't get out of the way of a falling tree," while smiling. I simply told him, "That is very Christian like," and walked away. The whole incident made me very upset. Not the words said, but the fact that a alleged "Jesus lover" (as his Religious views state on face-book) would say such a thing while smiling.

Everyone should know, that incidents like this turn people away from the Christian faith, after-all, who would want to be like that? I guess all followers of the lord Jesus Christ treat others like dirt... It is these Christian Human Paradox's that make Atheists dislike religion. When they insult the non-believers, I'm sure they never had in mind that they are the one of the causes of that person not believing anymore. I guess all of the non-believers are going to burn because they chose to be free-thinkers and were made fun of because of that. I guarantee none of this generation's Christians have ever really thought about what its like on the other side of their religion. Do you want to know why? Because they are scared. They are scared that because they are thinking deeply about the subject matter, that they will go to hell. This, in my opinion, is evil. To scare children into thinking they're going to go to hell because they're thinking more and more? If anything, Knowledge should be a god.

The reason Christianity is a Paradox is simply because of the selfish believers. They care not whether anyone else goes to heaven, they only care whether or not they do. This is proven, in many scenarios of every day school life. Christian- following the teachings or manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus Christ. The Christian Human Paradox's do not follow the teachings or manifest the qualities of the spirit of Jesus Christ, therefore, are they christian? Yes. Why? Majority>Minority If the majority
of people believe they're christian, they are. The majority always over-powers the minority, and there is just nothing we can do about it.

Is it not sad how the believers of the christian faith turn others away BECAUSE of what they are presumably following? When someone acts in such a way, (referring to the bathroom incident), and they're a christian, others start to think that that is them, manifesting the qualities of Jesus. Are they? Who knows, none of us were there in Jesus's time, all we have is a 2000 year old book to tell us what he did. Now, is that logical? I know of many people who were considered true Christians, until one day, they finished reading the Bible from front to back. After they read it, they thought, "What am I believing?" Everyone questions their faith after reading the book, is this Satan? No, its the logic in your "god-given" brain! Our brains are designed to see what is physically in front of us, what we can see, hear, smell, or taste. If god wants us to believe, then why design our brains that way but give us NO present physical proof he is there? Whenever your friend tells you about a song on the radio, and you've never heard about it, then you start hearing the song all over the radio, this is proof of the fact that our brains are designed to notice what is physically being presented to our brain. You never knew the song was on the radio until one of your friends told you it was on the radio all the time. Then you suddenly started hearing it all the time. There is no need to explain this ridiculously, claiming that there is a supernatural feat at hand. It is simply, design. Not "intelligent design," design. Thinkers and brights have already proved "intelligent design" wrong. Considering our eyes have evolved upside down and backwards. (Google it, I feel no need to explain) Why? This is simply because we evolved from bacteria that had no visibility. Now you're saying, oh evolution is ridiculous. Well, I'm no expert, and I loosely believe in evolution, but I do know that there is absolutely no reason to think that intelligent design has any more likelihood to be true than evolution. Here is a quote from Christopher Hitchens:

"By contrast, creationism, or "intelligent design" (its only cleverness being found in this underhanded re-branding of itself) is not even a theory. In all its well-financed propaganda, it has never even attempted to show how one single piece of the natural world is explained better by "design" than by evolutionary competition. Instead, it dissolves into puerile tautology. One of the creationists' "questionnaires" purports to be a yes/no interrogation of the following:

Do you know of any building that didn't have a builder?
Do you know of any panting that didn't have a painter?
Do you know of any car that didn't have a maker?
If you answered YES to any of the above, give details"

Now, I'm not trying to start a huge debate over religion, I'm only discussing my own questioning and doubt of the Christian religion. I'm almost done with it. I wouldn't say I'm desperate for reproof, but I would like to see what others think.

I want to know what everyone thinks about this corrupt generation as far as Christianity goes. Especially the ones causing the conflict. If you were tagged in this note, I want to know your personal thoughts on all of this. My ears and eyes are open.

**ninja9578** · 04-30-2010 12:33 PM

I think it depends on where you are. In the "civilized" parts of the United States, christianity is mocked and laughed about (but it's not just christianity, it's all religion.) But if you go to the bible belt, Jesus is still very big. Christianity is still very big in some European countries too, especially Ireland and Italy. That's a different kind of christianity though, they believe that jesus taught of love and peace, not war against islam and bigotry towards gay people.

**juroara** · 04-30-2010 05:13 PM

Think of it this way. Christianity says you have a free ticket to heaven, just profess that Jesus is your savior and heaven is a done deal. On top of that, at least I know my catholic upbringing told me, that I was a sinner. Not only am I a sinner, but I WILL ALWAYS BE A SINNER. And that I will never in any way shape or form be like Jesus, because Jesus is 'special' and all humans are dirt in comparison.

So then you go to church you sing praises about Jesus and God, and most of all you start begging for forgiveness because your ass is unworthy of God. Then you leave church and go back to the real world. Now what?

What's the motivation to be like Jesus in your daily life when:

1. You can't be like Jesus anyways, because he's special, and you're not, you're just a sinner, always will be a sinner, will die a sinner, SO WHY TRY?

2. When heaven is a free guarantee what else have you got to do? Nothing. So be a hypocrite, be a jerk and assholes to others, it doesn't matter right? You still have your free ticket to heaven right?

3. How can you be like Jesus if you do not know Jesus? And you do not know Jesus if you think Jesus wants you to attend a physical building, profess membership to an outer institution, every damn Sunday, and believe this is how you get to heaven. When the reality is this is against everything Jesus stood for.

4. How can God be apart of your life if you also fundamentally feel you are unworthy of God? That God is judging, weighing you constantly? At the same time, God created you, and you were born a sinner against your will, while God created Jesus sinless and special. And now that you are created a sinner against your will, your only chances of not burning eternally is to worship Jesus? Does the thought never occur to you, why didn't the all-powerful and all-loving God just make us all like Jesus? Christianity does not set up a happy relationship between you and God. Thus, the average Christian has no motivation to even have a relationship with God. The thought of God once a week at church is more than enough for most.

Christians will never be Christ like until some major changes happen at the fundamental core of Christianity. First and most important, church all together needs to disappear. It's okay for Christians to come together, sing and praise together, but you can not own the Holy Spirit and command it to stay in a building. If you read the bible, then you would know that Jesus was always on the move, and praising God wherever, and more importantly, in nature. Because in nature, Jesus knew that he was closer to God than any artificial non-living structure. (pssst..the Holy Spirit needs a living vessel to be flow into!)

The bible also warns that you can not contain or command the Holy Spirit to stay put. No. Yet that's exactly what a church building tries to do, it tries to own and contain the Holy Spirit, but Holy Spirit is free to go where it pleases. It's free to flow into atheists, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, Buddhists, Hindus, anyone it pleases. Christianity can not own it.

Church organization has to disappear all together as well. Organized religion is fundamentally against Jesus teaching. Jesus set up a spirituality for anyone to follow, not a religious organization, and he spoke against and displayed a distaste against such religious organizations that themselves up between you and God. Jesus says to let NO ONE stands between you and God. But if you think you need to go to church and listen to an old man babble on, because for some strange reason you're too stupid to understand the bible yourself, well then you've just placed a mere human between you and God.

For Christians to be Christ like, they first have to acknowledge THAT THEY CAN BE LIKE CHRIST. And this means to drop the whole attitude that you are just born and will die a sinner. This means to acknowledge that you are a daughter/son of God and you have all the potential to be all that you are right here right now in this life time. And more importantly, you have a RESPONSIBIILTY to be all that you are in this life time.

Responsibility is totally lacking in modern Christianity. It's the lazy religion for people who want someone else to do the work for them - namely Jesus.

When you acknowledge that you can be like Christ, you start to understand on a deeper level who and what Christ is, that goes far beyond anything church has ever sputtered.

And most and foremost importantly, the Christian needs to understand they are worthy of God, and they always have been. Christianity at its core is a religion that starts with shame (of the human condition), blame (of the feminine) and fear (of the unknown and God). This unworthiness of God, well, I can go on forever but it creates a lot of mental problems. Not to mention a bunch of old men in long robes humping little boys.

But if Christians as a whole profess they are worthy of God, right now, they don't even have to go to church, that they are worthy of God any where, any time. A lot of healing will happen, and the beast of the church will finally die.

**Dannon Oneironaut** · 05-01-2010 06:54 AM

Eighth graders are eighth graders. I take care of people with mental handicaps, and we always have problems with kids in middle school making fun of them. High school kids are better.

It doesn't matter what people believe consciously, people are just people. It doesn't make a difference if they were raised Christian, Atheist, Muslim, or Jewish, or Hindu. People are people. Religion is only skin deep. Beliefs are only skin deep.

I live in the Bible belt now. It is very interesting going to a festival downtown and seeing Christians holding up signs yelling from the Bible telling us we are all sinners, because we either don't believe in Jesus, or some of us are gay, or some of us have premarital sex, or some of us smoke pot, or some of us listen to Rock music, or some of us have long hair (Jesus had long hair!). But this isn't the true message of Jesus. This just isn't true.

Don't get upset towards Christians in general because of some eighth grade kids. True, most Christians are very close minded, but so are most people in the whole world, no matter what their beliefs. Believe me, I have traveled all over, and have hitchhiked a shit-load (that is the best way to meet people). But also, most people have good hearts, even if their minds are closed.

It is a stage of development that most people go through when they are your age, and that is to develop the ego by putting others down. It is a part of growing up. You might just happen to be more mature than others, or have a deeper insight. And for that I salute you.

Even many adults have that still deep within them. The need to put others down in order to feel superior. Hence those Christians I see holding up the signs. Fortunately there are enough people like us here to give them hell! But, unfortunately, that only seems to make them feel even more righteous, as if they are standing up to an even more powerful enemy. The more people confront them, the more righteous they feel.

Self-righteousness is even more dangerous than the normal mammalian social pecking order that adolescents do, because it is an anti-social behavior that only reinforces itself.

Your peers will either outgrow this phase, or else become worse Christians. But that is not the fault of Christianity. Christianity has its own faults, as well as virtues. If these people didn't have Christianity to back them up they would be self-righteous atheists or capitalists. Any belief system can be a crutch for immature and anti-social self-righteousness.

**Dannon Oneironaut** · 05-01-2010 07:05 AM

Sorry, double post.

I posted first without reading Juroara's post. I would like to say, Bravo!!!

The true message of Christ is against the church altogether!!! That is why many books have been excluded from the Bible. Many of the original scriptures were declared heresy by the Church, because in those books Jesus undermines all organized religion.

Jesus said: "If you believe that the kingdom of heaven is in the sky, then the birds will get there before you do. The kingdom of Heaven is within and without you."

Jesus said: "Look not for the law written in dead books by dead prophets, but look for the law written in your living heart by the living God."

But eight graders aren't mature or motivated enough to understand such things, and that is understandable and forgivable. And neither are most people. So get used to it, you will have to deal with ignorance your whole life.

But don't set yourself up against ignorance so that you get all self-righteous as well against what you perceive as ignorance and become like many atheists are. Then you will only become more identified with your own beliefs, which are also, just beliefs, and not truth. Truth is not a belief, truth is knowledge. Just realize that beliefs are skin deep and when we are all in deep dreamless sleep we all forget our beliefs and we are all the same. And that is when we are who we truly are.

**Speesh** · 05-01-2010 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

The true message of Christ is against the church altogether!!! That is why many books have been excluded from the Bible. Many of the original scriptures were declared heresy by the Church, because in those books Jesus undermines all organized religion.

Ahh yes, thanks for reminding me of this! I've heard the Gospel of Thomas has some really deep messages in it, but never had the opportunity to take a look at it, mainly because the church has chosen to ignore it all these years. I don't think its known why it was never canonized, but I'd bet most people just weren't receptive to its esoteric and unorthodox messages.

Check out this quote from wiki, pretty awesome stuff:

In the Thomas gospel, Jesus is presented as a spiritual guide whose words (when properly understood) bring eternal life (Saying 1). Readers of these sayings are advised to continue seeking until they find what will enable them to become rulers of their own lives (Saying 2) and thus to know themselves (Saying 3) and their legacy of being the children of "the living Father" (Saying 3). These goals are presented in the image of "entering the Kingdom" by the methodology of insight that goes beyond duality. (Saying 22). The Gospel of Thomas shows little or no concern for orthodox religious concepts and doctrines.

The Gospel of Thomas emphasizes direct and unmediated experience. In Thomas saying 108, Jesus says, "Whoever drinks from my mouth will become as I am; I myself shall become that person, and the hidden things will be revealed to him." Furthermore, salvation is personal and found through spiritual (psychological) introspection. In Thomas saying 70, Jesus says, "If you bring forth what is within you, what you have will save you. If you do not bring it forth, what you do not have within you will kill you." As such, this form of salvation is idiosyncratic and without literal explanation unless read from a psychological perspective related to Self vs. ego. In Thomas saying 3, Jesus says,

" ...the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty, and it is you who are that poverty. "

I've recently considered the idea of a modern day Jesus. Think of what he was, an unkempt renunciant who gave up material goods and society. Wandered around without a home with long hair and sandals. If you presented this person to today's Christian conservative they'd call him a dirty hippie. It originally pissed me off, but it is what it is. Now I can't help but grin at the all too predictable irony.

**Acid** · 05-01-2010 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by juroara

Think of it this way. Christianity says you have a free ticket to heaven, just profess that Jesus is your savior and heaven is a done deal. On top of that, at least I know my catholic upbringing told me, that I was a sinner. Not only am I a sinner, but I WILL ALWAYS BE A SINNER. And that I will never in any way shape or form be like Jesus, because Jesus is 'special' and all humans are dirt in comparison.

So then you go to church you sing praises about Jesus and God, and most of all you start begging for forgiveness because your ass is unworthy of God. Then you leave church and go back to the real world. Now what?

What's the motivation to be like Jesus in your daily life when:

1. You can't be like Jesus anyways, because he's special, and you're not, you're just a sinner, always will be a sinner, will die a sinner, SO WHY TRY?

2. When heaven is a free guarantee what else have you got to do? Nothing. So be a hypocrite, be a jerk and assholes to others, it doesn't matter right? You still have your free ticket to heaven right?

3. How can you be like Jesus if you do not know Jesus? And you do not know Jesus if you think Jesus wants you to attend a physical building, profess membership to an outer institution, every damn Sunday, and believe this is how you get to heaven. When the reality is this is against everything Jesus stood for.

4. How can God be apart of your life if you also fundamentally feel you are unworthy of God? That God is judging, weighing you constantly? At the same time, God created you, and you were born a sinner against your will, while God created Jesus sinless and special. And now that you are created a sinner against your will, your only chances of not burning eternally is to worship Jesus? Does the thought never occur to you, why didn't the all-powerful and all-loving God just make us all like Jesus? Christianity does not set up a happy relationship between you and God. Thus, the average Christian has no motivation to even have a relationship with God. The thought of God once a week at church is more than enough for most.

Christians will never be Christ like until some major changes happen at the fundamental core of Christianity. First and most important, church all together needs to disappear. It's okay for Christians to come together, sing and praise together, but you can not own the Holy Spirit and command it to stay in a building. If you read the bible, then you would know that Jesus was always on the move, and praising God wherever, and more importantly, in nature. Because in nature, Jesus knew that he was closer to God than any artificial non-living structure. (pssst..the Holy Spirit needs a living vessel to be flow into!)

The bible also warns that you can not contain or command the Holy Spirit to stay put. No. Yet that's exactly what a church building tries to do, it tries to own and contain the Holy Spirit, but Holy Spirit is free to go where it pleases. It's free to flow into atheists, Muslims, Jews, Pagans, Buddhists, Hindus, anyone it pleases. Christianity can not own it.

Church organization has to disappear all together as well. Organized religion is fundamentally against Jesus teaching. Jesus set up a spirituality for anyone to follow, not a religious organization, and he spoke against and displayed a distaste against such religious organizations that themselves up between you and God. Jesus says to let NO ONE stands between you and God. But if you think you need to go to church and listen to an old man babble on, because for some strange reason you're too stupid to understand the bible yourself, well then you've just placed a mere human between you and God.

For Christians to be Christ like, they first have to acknowledge THAT THEY CAN BE LIKE CHRIST. And this means to drop the whole attitude that you are just born and will die a sinner. This means to acknowledge that you are a daughter/son of God and you have all the potential to be all that you are right here right now in this life time. And more importantly, you have a RESPONSIBIILTY to be all that you are in this life time.

Responsibility is totally lacking in modern Christianity. It's the lazy religion for people who want someone else to do the work for them - namely Jesus.

When you acknowledge that you can be like Christ, you start to understand on a deeper level who and what Christ is, that goes far beyond anything church has ever sputtered.

And most and foremost importantly, the Christian needs to understand they are worthy of God, and they always have been. Christianity at its core is a religion that starts with shame (of the human condition), blame (of the feminine) and fear (of the unknown and God). This unworthiness of God, well, I can go on forever but it creates a lot of mental problems. Not to mention a bunch of old men in long robes humping little boys.

But if Christians as a whole profess they are worthy of God, right now, they don't even have to go to church, that they are worthy of God any where, any time. A lot of healing will happen, and the beast of the church will finally die.

Thank you so much for your reply. I do agree, but sadly, on forums I just don't have the heart to write a huge reply. I'm sorry for that. I do agree with most of the things you said, but the thing about how they are just eighth graders, and you shouldn't blame Christianity for it, I do not agree with.

You most certainly need to blame Christianity for it because it is the religion that they all have in common. You see, Christians never take into consideration what others may think. Religion teaches people to be extremely self-centered and conceited, especially children. It assures them that god cares for them individually, and it claims that the cosmos was created with them specifically in mind. [Christopher Hitchens] They might not think this, but it is certainly sub-conscious if so.

**Alric** · 05-01-2010 08:57 AM

Yea, kids are just kids. A kid is never going to be an accurate representation of what an adult will be like. And there are jerks every where, in every religion as well.

The reason you go to church is to be active and to learn. Not everyone is perfect and most people have times when they make mistakes in their lives, and so they are constantly trying to improve them self.

There is a huge difference between people are Christians and follow the teachings to the best of their ability, and ones who just say they are Christians. Just like there is a huge difference between atheists who put a lot of thought into why they are atheists, compared to ones who are atheists just because they are annoyed or want a simple way out.

**Indecent Exposure** · 05-01-2010 02:50 PM

The difference lies in the fact that you don't have to do anything or follow any teachings to be an atheist. You don't even need to believe in anything. We are all born atheists and we remain that way unless we make a concious decision otherwise or are badly socialised.

**Supernova** · 05-01-2010 03:46 PM

Well, it's like the bumper sticker says: Jesus is coming, and he's pissed.

**Dannon Oneironaut** · 05-01-2010 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by imran_p

The difference lies in the fact that you don't have to do anything or follow any teachings to be an atheist. You don't even need to believe in anything. We are all born atheists and we remain that way unless we make a concious decision otherwise or are badly socialised.

True! To a degree.

**Alric** · 05-01-2010 07:41 PM

You don't have to do anything or follow anything, to 'call' yourself a Christian. Isn't that the entire point of the thread? People apparently call them self Christian without putting any thought into what it means to be one, and they don't bother to do anything special or really follow the teachings of the church.

**Dannon Oneironaut** · 05-02-2010 08:46 PM

Yeah, they just identify themselves as a Christian because they were taught to. "What are you?" "I am a Christian." "How, why?" "Because my parents are."

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