A few years ago I compiled some bible verses that I think diverge from the mainstream teachings of the church. I debated whether to post those here, because I think they stray from the OP a little, but decided someone might be interested. Again, if you quote any of these to someone determined to believe differently, they will just tell you that you can't take any one verse alone to decide what is true.
The point is, don't use these to start arguments. Usually it isn't worth it, I know from experience. People have to understand things in their own time.
Anyhow the OP asked how it is possible that someone who lives terribly to just pray to Jesus and be "saved." It is a good question to ask when you encounter someone who believes this.
But there are other ways to look at the whole question.
First, the bible does say that true Christians are in fact perfect (not merely perfect in God's sight, but objectively perfect in a way that their good works shine to outside observers.) The good works do not earn them a place in heaven but are done as a result of their inner desire to live in connection with a higher spiritual law. Obviously, there are very few people who can live this way, just as there are very few Buddhists who become a Buddha.
I posted some of these as excerpts, but I am confident that if you look them up, you will find that I haven't taken anything out of context. None of these alone prove anything, it is only when taken together that they have meaning. (my comments are in parenthesis)
Mathew 5:15 - I say unto you, that except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes and the pharisees, you shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
(Yes the church teaches that this should be interpreted to mean that we can become righteous by belief in Jesus. However if you continue reading the sermon, Jesus not only says nothing of the sort, but gives numerous examples to show that righteousness comes from one's inner state and not one's outer adherance to a belief.)
Mathew 5:48 - Therefore you shall be perfect as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
(The end of the sermon above - the word perfect is recorded as merciful in Luke's gospel (Luke 6:36), which gives a shorter version of the same sermon. This suggests that this was not an impossible demand but a practical experience.)
John 5:29 - All that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth, they that have done good unto the resurrection of life and they that have done evil into the resurrection of damnation.
(No loopholes made for people who pray for forgiveness here)
Romans 2:6 (God) - who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish.
Mathew 16:27 - The son of man shall come in the glory of his father with his angels and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
2 Cor 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
(Note Paul is talking directly to Christians here)
Col 3:25 - But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect towards persons.
Gal 6:7 - Be not decieved, God is not mocked for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he reap.
(Again there is no loophole here.)
1 Cor 3:13 - Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he built upon he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
(this verse is a radical departure from the traditional understanding of hell. The "fires" of hell are here pictured as a purifying factor, not an eternal punishment.)
Just in case someone uses the "one verse" argument to the above:
Isaiah 33:14(2nd half)-15 - ...Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He that walketh Righteously and speaketh uprightly; he that depiseth the gain of oppression, that shakes his hands from holding of bribes...
So we can see that the bible holds everyone accountable for their actions. So what does it mean to be a Christian? The bible speaks openly about an inner perfection. I will be the first to admit I don't fully understand it but I think anyone can experience it if they are open to such an idea.
2 Cor 3:18 - But we all with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the lord are changed into the same image from glory to glory...
2 Cor 13:11 - Finally brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace, and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
1 Cor 15:34 - Awake to righteousness and sin not. For some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
(Again he is speaking directly to Christians here. Not unbelievers.)
Gal 3:3 - Are you so foolish having begun in the spirit are you now made perfect in the flesh?
(This verse is very important because it sets the whole tone for the book of Galations which is often used by pastors to prove that faith is all that matters and not actions. However if you read closer between the lines the author is saying that through faith one's inner being becomes perfect.
Gal 5:5 - For we through the spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
(See above - Of course this verse is interpreted radically different by the church. They say faith makes Christians as if they were righteous. I believe inner faith brings us into direct experience with a pre-existing spiritual perfection that does not belong to any one individual.)
Eph 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(Again an important verse, simply because churchgoers love to quote the preceding verses 2:8-9 which says that grace cannot be obtained by good works but only by faith. However, this verse expands on that to show that the result of true faith is good works. Complicated I know )
Eph 4:11-12 (excerpt) ...some evangelists, and some pastors, and teachers. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.
Col 1:22 -Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.
1 thes 3:10 (excerpt) ...that we might see your face and might perfect that which is lacking in your faith?
1 Thes 3 :13 (excerpt)- ...To the end that he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God...
1 Tim 2:19 (excerpt) - The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
(If one has not departed from iniquity we can conclude that one does not know God better than anyone else. See John 2:3 below.)
1 Tim 3:16-17 - But all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
(It is hard to believe but churchgoers will only quote the first half of this and never the second half. Talk about ignoring context. Also a very important verse that is constantly quoted by the church. On this verse they claim that the bible must be interpreted literally, which is more than what is being said.)
Titus - This short book is saturated with the idea that Christ's followers attain good works and live godly in this present world (verse 2:12). Other verses backing this up are 1:15-16, 2:14, 3:1, 3:8, 3:14 (Verses 3:5-6 on the other hand are the only ones the mainstream church uses from Titus. Those particular verses assert that Christ did not appear because of any good works done by Christians. However, the larger context is that once one truly knows Christ, one's actions will be Christlike.)
Hebrews 6:1 (excerpt)- Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection...
Hebrews 7:19 - For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing of a better hope did, by the which we draw night unto God.
(Why was the first covenant replaced? - Answer: It did not make its followers perfect.)
(Hebrews 10:1 -5 also expand on the above) (See my previous post for more from Hebrews.)
James 2:17 - Even so faith, if it hath not works is dead, being alone.
&
James 2 :22 - Seest though how faith wrought with with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
(James is a brilliant masterpiece and a good starting point for those interested in learning about the New Testament letters. However, almost every Churchgoer is familiar with the above two verses and will have some, often convoluted, explanation about how to interpret them according to church doctrine.)
1 Peter 5:10 (excerpt) But the God of all grace who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that you have suffered for a while, make you perfect, stablish strengthen and settle you.
2 Peter 1 :4 (excerpt) Whereby are given to us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature...
The Book of John
(John 1: 8 -10 Seems to back up the mainstream view but it is asserting that all of us have sinned in the past and must confess our incompleteness in order to ever become whole again. Once we are whole, John expands on the idea in verse2:1 and the other verses below)
John 2:1 My little Children, these things I write to you that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
John 2:3 And hereby do we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
John 3:6 Whosoever abides in him sins not: Whosoever sins hath not seen him neither known him.
(So much for the idea that Christians know God better merely because they believe in him.)
John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin, for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(See also John 4:17-21(as God is so are Christians in the present world) see also John 5:18 and 3John verse 11)
A couple other relevant verses are:
Mark 9:40 - For he that is not against us is on our part.
(Important because the church loves to quote the verse in Mathew where Christ says that anyone who is not for him is against him. But in Mark, we see Christ is saying the reverse as well. So Mathew's verse cannot be interpreted as damning anyone who doesn't actively practice Christianity.)
Matthew Chapter 25 contains Christ's parables about who will enter the kingdom of God and who will not. There is no mention of mainstream church doctrines but only illustrations about actions that come from an inner attitude adjustment. Of course Christ also tells his disciples to just believe and be saved, but he continually expands on what it means to actually believe in terms of objective, observable effects.
Finally Matthew 7:21 - Not every one that says unto me, Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
So the mainstream church's doctrine does not add up, either logically or from biblical scholarship.
This may seem like a lot for one post, but I have been compiling this list for a few years because I have many relatives that pressure me to go to their church. I have found that the only way out is through - I worked to understand what is behind their beliefs and how to understand it at a higher level.
Only after seriously considering the question for years have I learned to disarm those contentious evangelicals in a polite and respectful way. They still go away saying they'll pray for me, and I smile and say thanks, because I can use all the prayer I can get. But again, I wouldn't recommend trying to use any of this to change someone else's mind, you'll just get bogged down into an argument and it's not worth it.
I hope I haven't come across as saying everyone needs to understand these verse the way I do. I just hope to show that even the standard, church-sanctioned bible contains enough paradoxical verses to show that Christ and his ideas are too big to be contained by any one organization.
What is it to be perfect? That's the question that Christ refused to answer except in parables and symbols. He know that any direct answer would cause people to just follow a set of rules without questioning (well actually that happened anyway, but that's another issue.) Only when the question is approached with a genuine spirit of inquiry, will an answer come. Seek and you shall find.
|
|
Bookmarks