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    Thread: Are there any scientists researching DMT?

    1. #1
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      Are there any scientists researching DMT?

      I know it's a Schedule I drug in America, so can they legally do anything with it? What about other countries?

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      Have you already read the book DMT - The spirit molecule? Maybe mr. Strassmann is still working on the topic.

      Maybe following link helps?

      dimethyltryptamine - Google Scholar

      I have read some studies so far. Some about Ayahuasca, some about rats. Kinda weird.
      Last edited by EmoScreamo; 11-12-2012 at 03:43 PM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by EmoScreamo View Post
      Have you already read the book DMT - The spirit molecule? Maybe mr. Strassmann is still working on the topic.

      Maybe following link helps?

      dimethyltryptamine - Google Scholar

      I have read some studies so far. Some about Ayahuasca, some about rats. Kinda weird.
      Thanks, I just read some of them and a lot of it is either about rats or extremely biased. One even said "the patient had developed a complex spiritual belief system", which includes enlightenment.

      I've heard of the book, but I haven't read it yet. My parents don't understand this stuff and would think I'm a drug addict or something. If I find it I'll read it.

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      What exactly are you expecting them to be researching about it? As far as I know most studies on its purpose in the body have been inconclusive or just shown it as an artifact of metabolism. Aside from that, they already know quite a lot about its pharmacology.
      Last edited by Alyzarin; 11-13-2012 at 12:07 AM.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Alyzarin View Post
      most studies on its purpose in the body have been inconclusive
      Isn't that a good reason for more studies? Everything I've I know of has been with rats except Rick Strassman's research and maybe a few others.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Woodstock View Post
      Isn't that a good reason for more studies? Everything I've I know of has been with rats except Rick Strassman's research and maybe a few others.
      It is if it's assumed that it does have a definite purpose in the body, but it's looking increasingly more like it likely doesn't, in my opinion anyway. And it's in the body in very small amounts, too. I'm not saying that it definitely does nothing, but there's a reason that no one is researching it. My current guess is that there's nothing particularly significant about it compared to other psychedelics, it just happens to be a subjectively strong one that's produced in the body on a technicality. The same is true of 5-MeO-DMT and bufotenin because they're all chemically similar to our neurotransmitters and metabolism is a complex process.

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      Im sure there are. DMT is a naturally reoccurring chemical in the body used in our dreams, it is also excreted in our death along with THC, Serotonin, and most of the chemicals in our body. Which leads some philosophers to believe that DMT is actually the gateway between life and death. I personally believe that when we die the dmt is shot to our brains and causes us to decide our own fate in a disoriented and foggy way so that we find out who we really are. So heaven or hell is your own choosing.

      But its completely metaphysical considering the drug can be used recreationally and life after death is not a possible discovery.

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      Quote Originally Posted by aesthetic View Post
      DMT is a naturally reoccurring chemical in the body used in our dreams, it is also excreted in our death along with THC, Serotonin, and most of the chemicals in our body.
      Neither of those claims has ever been substantiated, and they were just baseless theories to begin with. THC is also not naturally in your body, in any amount.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Alyzarin View Post
      It is if it's assumed that it does have a definite purpose in the body, but it's looking increasingly more like it likely doesn't, in my opinion anyway. And it's in the body in very small amounts, too.
      That's disappointing...
      My current guess is that there's nothing particularly significant about it compared to other psychedelics, it just happens to be a subjectively strong one that's produced in the body on a technicality. The same is true of 5-MeO-DMT and bufotenin because they're all chemically similar to our neurotransmitters and metabolism is a complex process.
      But all psychedelics seem significant, we could learn a lot more about our minds if they were researched more. Psychology would go a lot further very quickly. I don't know anything about chemistry, but if N,N-DMT and 5-Meo-DMT are similar to our neurotransmitters, then wouldn't lysergic acid, psilocin, and mescaline be similar too? The fact that they're similar to important parts of our brain and have the effects that they do makes me think psychedelics and meditation weren't just accidents, we were meant to use both of them.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Woodstock View Post
      That's disappointing...
      Yeah, DMT gets hyped up a lot.... It is what it is, though. Even Strassman said that his views on DMT in dreams and stuff were just theories from the start, not to be taken as fact, but that didn't stop people.

      It is still an incredible psychedelic, though.

      But all psychedelics seem significant, we could learn a lot more about our minds if they were researched more. Psychology would go a lot further very quickly. I don't know anything about chemistry, but if N,N-DMT and 5-Meo-DMT are similar to our neurotransmitters, then wouldn't lysergic acid, psilocin, and mescaline be similar too? The fact that they're similar to important parts of our brain and have the effects that they do makes me think psychedelics and meditation weren't just accidents, we were meant to use both of them.
      Yes, they are all similar. Very similar, in fact. I won't go too deep into this now because there's a LOT to cover, but if you ever want to ask me about it some time, through PM or whatever, I can give a you breakdown of it all.

      However, there are drugs far better suited to researching psychedelic neurochemical effects, especially speaking from a legal standpoint. Drugs that aren't Schedule I, and that are so selective in their pharmacology that they make the traditional psychedelics look downright dirty. DMT effects too many receptors to give any information that will be considered useful in the scientific community these days aside from anything regarding itself specifically (as opposed to psychedelics as a whole).

      Believe me, the relationship between hallucinogens and natural experiences like meditation and OBEs is very strong, and beautifully complex. There's a reason I devoted so much time to studying it.

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    11. #11
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      Woopsies not thc, I was thinking of Cannabinoid receptors. And your claims are just as controversial as the next, just thought I would throw my 2 cents.

    12. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by aesthetic View Post
      Woopsies not thc, I was thinking of Cannabinoid receptors. And your claims are just as controversial as the next, just thought I would throw my 2 cents.
      My claims are not controversial, they're based on scientific research. Your claims are based on the theories of a man who had never done the research to support his ideas, and outright stated such. Take it to any big DMT site and they'll tell you that Strassman's claims are unfounded, the majority of DMT vets I've talked to are getting tired of hearing the same lines over and over again.

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      Quote Originally Posted by aesthetic View Post
      And your claims are just as controversial as the next, just thought I would throw my 2 cents.
      She didn't "claim" anything. She told us her opinions and theories, just like Strassman.
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      Ill stop you both there.
      But its completely metaphysical considering the drug can be used recreationally and life after death is not a possible discovery.
      some philosophers to believe that DMT is actually the gateway between life and death.
      Ill just be sure not to question anything u ever say again.

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      Quote Originally Posted by aesthetic View Post
      Ill stop you both there.

      Ill just be sure not to question anything u ever say again.
      I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here.... Those things don't change the fact that saying it's excreted during dreams and death is wrong.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Alyzarin View Post
      I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here.... Those things don't change the fact that saying it's excreted during dreams and death is wrong.
      Do you even know what your saying?

      Strassman's claims are unfounded, the majority of DMT vets I've talked to are getting tired of hearing the same lines over and over again.
      Dmt is in your dreams. Fact.

      Strassman is a psychologist, not a scientist so you cant claim anything as proven fact or "scientific data" lol.

      Those things don't change the fact that saying it's excreted during dreams and death is wrong.
      I said "some philosophers believe."

      I love it when people act like they know shit out of intuition and opinion.

      Take it to any big DMT site
      So doesnt that insinuate your suppose to like, be on this empirical evidence shit? Yet you have only said some shit about strassman. Originally, I was just giving my input out of little research and theories I have picked up. But then you started being cunty and such.

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      Quote Originally Posted by aesthetic View Post
      Do you even know what your saying?
      Yes, I do. I'm not entirely sure that you do though, in fact I'm hesitant to respond at all because some of what you say makes it clear that you either just skimmed my posts or didn't understand them at all.

      Dmt is in your dreams. Fact.
      No, not fact. Theory. Show me a single source that proves that DMT plays a role in your dreams.

      Strassman is a psychologist, not a scientist so you cant claim anything as proven fact or "scientific data" lol.
      I argued against Strassman, not for him. In fact you just proven my point by saying you can't take his opinions as scientific data. He was the one who made the dream and death theories popular, so I don't see how you're doing anything but hurting yourself here.

      I said "some philosophers believe."
      This is the quote you are referring to: "DMT is a naturally reoccurring chemical in the body used in our dreams, it is also excreted in our death along with THC, Serotonin, and most of the chemicals in our body. Which leads some philosophers to believe that DMT is actually the gateway between life and death."

      The bold part is what you were responding to, and yet the underlined part is what you're trying to use as an excuse. These are clearly stated as separate thoughts, and your philosopher comment makes perfect sense in it's own context, but it doesn't apply here.

      So doesnt that insinuate your suppose to like, be on this empirical evidence shit? Yet you have only said some shit about strassman.
      Not totally sure what you're getting at here.... I said take it to a big DMT side because the top users tend to be very educated on DMT research and they're generally all aware that Strassman was just theorizing.
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      Quote Originally Posted by aesthetic
      Originally, I was just giving my input out of little research and theories I have picked up. But then you started being cunty and such.
      She just said they were theories, not facts, and that there is no proof either way but most scientists don't think it causes dreams or is released when you die.

      I asked a simple question: "Are there any scientists researching DMT". My question was answered. This isn't a "Does DMT make us dream" debate thread. Start one if you want, but I'd appreciate it if you stop commenting on this thread.
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      The absurdity of this thread is flabbergasting. I will leave you two alone, if your not going to allow more then 2 people in a thread then please just PM each other.

      peace, never meant harm in the first place.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Alyzarin View Post
      Take it to any big DMT site and they'll tell you that Strassman's claims are unfounded, the majority of DMT vets I've talked to are getting tired of hearing the same lines over and over again.
      Would you mind posting some sources or links. Sounds interesting.

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      Quote Originally Posted by EmoScreamo View Post
      Would you mind posting some sources or links. Sounds interesting.
      Are you asking for links to the DMT sites or to stuff about Strassman? Well, I suppose I can do both. Though, from this point on per Woodstock's request I must ask that if you want to continue this discussion we take it to a new thread or to PMs.

      If you actually read much about Strassman, you'll find that the reason he thought DMT might be involved in near-death experiences and dreams was just because of subjective similarities and because it does exist naturally in the human body. Not an absurd claim to make, but the experiences aren't really that similar. There are definitely similarities involved, but so are there with any other type of out-of-body experience.

      So, first they tried to tackle the whole "it's made in the pineal gland" thing. I hate to quote from Wikipedia, but there's actually tons of source links in this paragraph so I'd rather just grab it as a whole than link to them individually.

      Dimethyltryptamine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      (click to get the sources, it's anchored to that section)
      Quote Originally Posted by INMT
      Before techniques of molecular biology were used to localize indolethylamine N-methyltransferase (INMT),[25][27] characterization and localization went on a par: samples of the biological material where INMT is hypothesized to be active are subject to enzyme assay. Those enzyme assays are performed either with a radiolabeled methyl donor like (14C-CH3)SAM to which known amounts of unlabeled substrates like tryptamine are added,[23] or with addition of a radiolabeled substrate like (14C)NMT to demonstrate in vivo formation.[6][26] As qualitative determination of the radioactively tagged product of the enzymatic reaction is sufficient to characterize INMT existence and activity (or lack of), analytical methods used in INMT assays aren't required to be as sensitive as those needed to directly detect and quantify the minute amounts of endogenously formed DMT (see DMT subsection below). The essentially qualitative method thin layer chromatography (TLC) was thus used in a vast majority of studies.[23] Also, robust evidence that INMT can catalyze transmethylation of tryptamine into NMT and DMT could be provided with reverse isotope dilution analysis coupled to mass spectrometry for rabbit[29][30] and human[31] lung during the early 1970s.

      Selectivity rather than sensitivity proved to be an Achilles’ heel for some TLC methods with the discovery in 1974–1975 that incubating rat blood cells or brain tissue with (14C-CH3)SAM and NMT as substrate mostly yields tetrahydro-β-carboline derivatives,[6][23][32] and negligible amounts of DMT in brain tissue.[23] It is indeed simultaneously realized that the TLC methods used thus far in almost all published studies on INMT and DMT biosynthesis are incapable to resolve DMT from those tetrahydro-β-carbolines.[23] These findings are a blow for all previous claims of evidence of INMT activity and DMT biosynthesis in avian[33] and mammalian brain,[34][35] including in vivo,[36][37] as they all relied upon use of the problematic TLC methods:[23] their validity is doubted in replication studies that make use of improved TLC methods, and fail to evidence DMT-producing INMT activity in rat and human brain tissues.[38][39] Published in 1978, the last study attempting to evidence in vivo INMT activity and DMT production in brain (rat) with TLC methods finds biotransformation of radiolabeled tryptamine into DMT to be real but "insignificant".[40] Capability of the method used in this latter study to resolve DMT from tetrahydro-β-carbolines is questioned later.[6]
      So that was a pretty big hit to the whole pineal gland theory in general, which both the dreams and near-death experience claims surrounded.

      As for what else.... Well honestly, it's kind of hard to give sources to show that something doesn't have scientific backing lol. But that's the point, really.

      I found this quote from an interview with him, haven't read the whole thing though.

      131. Dr. Rick Strassman On Whether Psychedelic Drugs Prove We Are More Than Our Brain | Skeptiko - Science at the Tipping Point
      Dr. Richard Strassman: So the whole issue of NDEs is interesting because I was actually anticipating a lot more of the classical kinds of near-death experiences in my volunteers than actually took place. I was speculating that the occurrence would be a lot more common because of some speculations that I had put forth about ability of stress-related release of DMT at the time of death. That’s purely speculative at this point but still I was able to marshal substantial evidence suggesting that DMT could possibly increase as a result of stress which occurs as you’re approaching death.
      Note the underlined parts, the first showing that there were a statistically significant number of differences, and the second showing that he even refers to it as a theory. I have no idea where that last bit about DMT being released in stress comes from though because I've never heard that before, and there doesn't seem to be any source material on that page. I'd like to hear just where he got that from.

      But, as aesthetic reminds us,
      Strassman is a psychologist, not a scientist so you cant claim anything as proven fact or "scientific data" lol.
      Personally, I think that's enough to cast a good deal of skepticism on to the whole thing, but if you want more links you can always ask me elsewhere.

      As for the DMT sites.... The only one I've really thought about in a long time is dmt-nexus.me. I know there's ayahuasca.com too, but I can't remember how good it is.... Aside from that, try DMT areas on big forums in general, like drugs-forum.com, or just asking about DMT in educated places like bluelight.ru. I could go on but I don't want to get in trouble for posting too many drug links here lol. Like I said, PM me or something if you want more.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Alyzarin View Post
      Though, from this point on per Woodstock's request I must ask that if you want to continue this discussion we take it to a new thread or to PMs.
      I don't mind a serious conversation, I didn't like the pointless arguing. I'd actually like it if you or anyone else want to add useful information. What you posted is related to this thread because I asked for research on DMT.
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      FYI - Available on Netflix DMT: The Spirit Molecule

      Quote Originally Posted by Woodstock View Post
      I don't mind a serious conversation, I didn't like the pointless arguing. I'd actually like it if you or anyone else want to add useful information. What you posted is related to this thread because I asked for research on DMT.
      DMT: The Spirit Molecule

      Might just watch this myself. It's available on instant streaming at the moment. I once had a very detailed dream that made me feel like I had experienced nirvana at the time and it ended up being prophetic. The feeling of peace took about a week to fade and my son's speculates that I had some sort of chemical release to make me feel that way especially since the feeling faded over time like some sort of drug half life or something. I'll be interested in seeing if this subject comes up in the movie.

      Lisa Sinervo
      Weird Dreams | A Case Study In Precognitive Dreams
      Last edited by Weirddreamsorg; 02-20-2013 at 05:59 AM.

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