Thread: Shared Lucids

Originally posted by Howetzer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Howetzer)</div>

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Sure, but I see no reason to believe that

What gives us reason to believe any of it at this point? [/b]

Because some of us have experienced it

[quote]Because Lucidty is not always a sure thing for anybody then you add another person to the mix. This makes it more difficult.
So I suspect time will be an issue in this experiement. But time we have.
Is lucidity a requirement? It would probably be easier if at least one person were lucid and could "transport" to his/her partner's dream, but wouldn't it be possible (if shared dreaming is possible at all) for both people to have shared non-lucid dreams?

[quote]
We need someone to act as the third party.
Who would like to do this?

What would be the role of this third party?

[quote]We don't know what factors are important for shared dreaming.
The possibilities include what? Just brain storming here. Add to the mix if anyone thinks of another factor.

I don't think we have twins in the forum?
boyfriend/girlfriend
husband/wife
friends over the forum
Same interests
same sleeping patterns*
Date of birth
boy/boy
girl/girl
girl/boy

Having said all that. If we can find two participants and a third party to relay the dreams.
We need to discuss wether techniques are important.
More brain stroming.
Do both individuals follow the same methods for becoming lucid?
Opon becoming lucid;
both have a predetermined set of proceedueres
a place to meet?
???????????

It'd be great to have data on all of these variables, but for the results to be significant, we'd need a lot of volunteers. I haven't seen Mickeys_Elbow around, so who's going to run this beast? (And rest assured, if it goes as well as it could, it will become a beast-- like a cute little floppy-eared puppy that grows up to be a 120lb mastiff.)

Originally posted by Placebo
Because some of us have experienced it

Do you have a post about this placebo? I would be very interested to here about it.

Peregrinus. You have a lot of valid questions. I hate to be a stick in the mud but I think we may have to regress a little to go foward.
I will explain later.

[quote]Because Lucidty is not always a sure thing for anybody then you add another person to the mix. This makes it more difficult.
So I suspect time will be an issue in this experiement. But time we have.

[quote]Is lucidity a requirement? It would probably be easier if at least one person were lucid and could \"transport\" to his/her partner's dream, but wouldn't it be possible (if shared dreaming is possible at all) for both people to have shared non-lucid dreams? [/color]

That is a good question. And to me this is where I had to take a step back and think what placebo said about sharing dream space. Then what you said about \"Transport\".
This all to me points towards dream sharing as being more of an astral projection thing. If you are sharing a dream with someone, your conscious and theirs had to get from one location to another via some form of tranportation. Right? So I am not immplying dream sharing is not dream sharing. I just think that it falls somewhere in the realm of astral projection or distant viewing.
Wich in that case we might have to rethink a few things.

What would be the role of this third party?

No matter how we slice it a trust faactor we all agreed will have to play a role in this expierement. The third party, let us say it is you Peregrinus.
Subject A communicates with subject B, the two dream sharing participants.
They only make contact through discussion of how they will go about the whole proceedure.
The proceedure = not sure yet.
Then any dream activity would be PMed to you only. You then keep those records. Both particpants and you are all aware of the proceedure. In the event both A & B have a dream that match information then you relay the info. And whaalaa dream sharing exists.
Sounds easy. J/K !

It'd be great to have data on all of these variables, but for the results to be significant, we'd need a lot of volunteers. I haven't seen Mickeys_Elbow around, so who's going to run this beast? (And rest assured, if it goes as well as it could, it will become a beast-- like a cute little floppy-eared puppy that grows up to be a 120lb mastiff.)

I agree. And all those factors I spewed out are unlikley. So I guess we work with who we have. Most likely two forum members -hopefully sleep compatible.

I don’t know about the whole astral projection thing. It seems to me that AP, OBE, and whatever the other acronyms are, are more likely the mind’s way of interpreting an experience rather than some ethereal body-look-a-like physically separating from the body. If shared dreaming exists, my hypothesis as to a mechanism would be some sort of telepathic connection. Have you ever played a video game where you link up with other players such that you and they are inhabiting and interacting in the same environment? In that, your connections are routed through a central server which sorts out the details of the environment, but shared dreaming could conceivably operate on a similar principle. The two dreamers could have some sort of nonlocal information transfer connection. In that case, I would suspect the shared dreams to be similar but possess some different elements, since the two minds would probably not be perfect at incorporating all of the other person’s dream elements into his/her dream. That’s actually a way to distinguish between your hypothesis and mine. If you’re right, the two dreamers should experience the same external “place” to which they physically (well, sorta) transport, such that all dream elements should be the same.

Well, we’ll see. I haven’t heard from enough people claiming shared dreams to suspect that it’s much more than a coincidence. Of course, any good skeptic would say the same thing, so I don’t want people to take this as my statement that I absolutely don’t believe in the possibility. If that were the case, I wouldn’t be curious enough to participate in this experiment in the first place. I just want to make my position (and therefore any biases I might have) clear from the outset.

I'd be willing to act as 3rd party for this "little puppy" and keep records of all the info. Though I think more than one person would be best for this job, with both of them doing the exact same thing getting the same info etc. One person's opinion of what is similar enough to consider it as shared could be much different than anothers. An extra person or two would help to rule out biases and even mistakes (if one person doesn't notice the connection etc.)

Originally posted by Howetzer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Howetzer)</div>

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Because some of us have experienced it

Do you have a post about this placebo? I would be very interested to here about it.
[/b]

I DID have a post about it, but it was posted long after I experienced it
I tried to look for the post, and... can't find it

I don't think it was posted during the downtime we had, and our little vacation, so I can't figure out where it went
How annoying. I posted in a fair amount of detail

I'll keep looking, but basically my wife woke up in the early hours while I was dreaming, and felt 'zenlike' (as she put it)
So she decided to kind of meditate into my dreams. Essentially what she did was a WILD, with the intention to enter my dream
The next morning the 2 experiences were about 90% similar. It involved sexual favours and some unusual behaviour from myself that would not normally have happened in my dreams

I was careful to hear her experience without lacing it with prompts from my own (to prevent altering her memories)
However, it wasn't optimal - we should have written it down separately

Thanks for responding [edit -no green]Placebo! So to you it is a known. not a belief.
See I don't know where the hell i am, a plane, a bed
This brings a lot of insight to this.
And of coarse Peregrinus has brought up many points to which came from a mind set that I could have not otherwise seen.
Which is perfect for Research.
I too personally believe that OBE's and astral projection falls in some realm of the dream world. Where I don't know. I understand what you are saying.

Originally posted by Peregrinus
Shared dreaming could conceivably operate on a similar principle. The two dreamers could have some sort of nonlocal information transfer connection

Your position Peregrinus, unbiased, makes you the perfect third person candidate. If you believe that is even necissary

So where do we go from here?

Ahem... 'Placebo'. Not 'Palcebo in green'

Originally posted by Howetzer
So to you it is a known. not a belief.

I wouldn't say that. It was just uncanny.
Perhaps it was an amazing coincidence

Either way, my experience is both anecdotal and subjective. Useful to me, but not to others
It does leave me believing it has a high chance of being possible outside of coincidence

Sorry Placebo (with no green)

So where does this leave us. The beginning.
Again, where should we go from here?

I have had good success with WILDs latlely. If it keeps up, I am willing to be one of the two participants.
I have actually felt like I am in some control -what a concept

From Howetzer in everything green.

Sorry Placebo (with no green)

So where does this leave us?
Again, where should we go from here?

I have had good success with WILDs latlely. If it keeps up, I am willing to be one of the two participants.
I have actually felt like I am in some control -what a concept

From Howetzer in everything green.

Originally posted by Howetzer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Howetzer)</div>

Sorry Placebo (with no green)[/b]

No problem

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So where does this leave us. The beginning.
Again, where should we go from here?

I have had good success with WILDs latlely. If it keeps up, I am willing to be one of the two participants.
I have actually felt like I am in some control -what a concept

Dunno if I can help - I'm over-utilised
Besides, my lucid dreams are few and far between lately

How about collecting together who can help, their abilities, etc
And then try to categorise who can work with who, and how we can do it

We should post a recruitment topic in another forum (general, lounge, senseless, all 3?) to search for volunteers with a link to this topic. We would probably find more attention that way.

Originally posted by Mickeys_Elbow
We should post a recruitment topic in another forum (general, lounge, senseless, all 3?) to search for volunteers with a link to this topic. We would probably find more attention that way.

That is agood idea. Much broader of a range of people.
how should we word it?
And what should we ask?

How about:

"New research experiment in dream views labs (volunteers needed)"

The research team is searching for volunteers to take part in a shared dreaming experiment. We are looking for volunteer dreamers of all types lucid and non-lucid alike to attempt to induce shared dreaming. Follow this thread if you want to take part. (link)

If someone isn't on the research team, can they follow a link to the forum?

Originally posted by Mickeys_Elbow
How about:

\"New research experiment in dream views labs (volunteers needed)\"

The research team is searching for volunteers to take part in a shared dreaming experiment. We are looking for volunteer dreamers of all types lucid and non-lucid alike to attempt to induce shared dreaming. Follow this thread if you want to take part. (link)

If someone isn't on the research team, can they follow a link to the forum?

Yes, as far as I know they can.

That looks good to me!

Originally posted by Howetzer+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Howetzer)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Mickeys_Elbow

How about:

\"New research experiment in dream views labs (volunteers needed)\"

The research team is searching for volunteers to take part in a shared dreaming experiment. We are looking for volunteer dreamers of all types lucid and non-lucid alike to attempt to induce shared dreaming. Follow this thread if you want to take part. (link)

If someone isn't on the research team, can they follow a link to the forum?

That looks good to me![/b]

Seeker had mentioned that he may place an announcment across the board for us!

Sorry for the extended absense. My school's internet server went down, and this being Spring Break, they took their sweet time getting it back up. As far as being a reviewer/3rd party for this experiment, it would really depend on how many participants there are. I'm pretty swamped with work until the beginning of May, and in the short term, have three papers to write in the next 6 days, so I'm not up for any big time obligations right now. However, I think Mickeys_Elbow is right-- we should have more than one reviewer. Also, there should be some quantitative measure of dream similarity. If I have time tomorrow, I'll try to work out some sort of formula and post it.

Originally posted by Peregrinus
Sorry for the extended absense. My school's internet server went down, and this being Spring Break, they took their sweet time getting it back up. As far as being a reviewer/3rd party for this experiment, it would really depend on how many participants there are. I'm pretty swamped with work until the beginning of May, and in the short term, have three papers to write in the next 6 days, so I'm not up for any big time obligations right now. However, I think Mickeys_Elbow is right-- we should have more than one reviewer. Also, there should be some quantitative measure of dream similarity. If I have time tomorrow, I'll try to work out some sort of formula and post it.

Three papers in six days Is that all? LOL
Your suppose to enjoy spring break!!!

Don't sweat it. We have time. And hopefully some more participants will arise as well.

Lucidnina had previously shown interest in the project. Since her and I talk a lot we have tried to set up a similar sleep pattern since I have had success with inducing WILDS as of late.
Who knows? We could use a more formulated format, that is for sure.

Gothlark AKA, LDguy claims he can lucid dream at will and has experienced dreamsharing more than a few times.
I suggested he join our experiment. He said that he likes to do his own. For some of his results have been inconclusive.
If it is a bluff I am calling it!!!! Put your LDs where your mouth is.

I thought that was the reason we were doing this. To throw inconclusive out the window!

I agree Howie!!

Come on Brett...join in the effort!

Yeah, I LD on will and have experimented with dream sharing numerous times. None of it has been 100% conclusive but I can tell you some of them. See, the reason I don't feel like participating is that it's March Break. I was hoping to get a week away from Science class. But I suppose I should get on with the stories.

My first attempt was with a member from DV. I attempted to make a portal to their dream and wound up at the mouth of a cave. I didn't see them around so I went back to my dream and had like 6 more LDs. That's probably my record. But anyways, that morning they had a DJ entry about a cave dream.

Probably about five times it happened just because I wanted it to happen before going to bed. I had a dream in a theatre, so did the target. I had a dream in a dune buggy going across the desert where I was wounded, and the target dreampt that they were the driver. One time it was a really loosely similar thing. I had a dream where I was a fisher and where I was really angry outside of my school gym. They dreampt of me chasing them around the gym and around town trying to kill them. At one point a through a fish into a mailbox. The funny thing is that I was fishing illegally in my dream and a mailbox is supposed to symbolize an illegal action (according to my mom's dream book.) These are the only ones that come to mind, but I know that I did this several more times with the desert person.

Now, a few of them are slightly more interesting. In one, I opened a portal to them and wound up at a café (we later compared details and it was virtually the same in detail) and she remembered me talking to her in this place asking if she wanted to come back to my dream world with me. In another, the person not only remembered a canyon-desert place, but they also remembered the same storyline, people, and the part of the canyone we were hanging out in which had a unique arch of rock. Finally, in a few, I went to one friend's dream and brought them into another friend's dream. Those nights, the one friend dreampt about the other friend. I couldn't confirm with the other friend because the fact is that I didn't know them. They were my friend's friend. Not mine.

Oh, I forgot about this one. It's kind of weird. I shared a dream with the person and when I told them about it, they had had that dream 6 months earlier. The funny thing is that I was trying to change the flow of time.

I find it interesting how out of all these attempts, none of them had uninteresting results. Also, all but one of them were with people I didn't know in person. Heck, in one I didn't even know the person online. I also find it interesting how we don't seem to have to be asleep at the same time. Also, I seem to have dream control even though it's supposed to be their mind. Hope I didn't leave anything out there.

Gothlark!!!! I really appreciate your response.
I hope my instigating was not overbaring. It was not meant to be.

I think this can provide us with some useful Ideas.

"Because you wanted it to." Does this mean you just mearly thought about it? Or incubating by process of repition of your thoughts?

I'm glad to help. Your instigation is no big deal. I haven't been in the best mood, but it was good practice for self-control. Yeah, I did some dream incubation with hypnosis so that my subconscious would do the work.

Also, I seem to have dream control even though it's supposed to be their mind.[/b]

Ok, "Freddy" - this makes me want to sleep with a great big padlock around my head!

Stories like these get me all psyched up to LDing - I have got to develop this incredible skill!