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    1. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by StephL View Post
      I've been wondering before but in another context - if you had the possibility to in some way record your lucid dreams, so that they can be fed into simulations for other people's virtual adventures - then LDing could become an art-form.
      It would be interesting to see how much have they advanced doing this: Scientists Reconstruct Brains' Visions Into Digital Video In Historic Experiment
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    2. #27
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      Yeah!!



      I was planning to look for something like this - thank you - you are a really good finder, box77!!
      Just a spontaneous answer now - I need to read it properly yet and check up on something. Exactly one of the things that makes me think it might happen in my life-time!

    3. #28
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      I'll make a thread on your link, Box - it more than deserves one!!


      Found something unexpected: Astrocytes — not neurons — found to control the brain’s gamma waves and some forms of memory | KurzweilAI

      ...Unexpected effects on object recognition and cognitive behavior

      The mice with the modified astrocytes seemed perfectly healthy. But after several cognitive tests, the researchers found that they failed in one major area: novel object recognition. A healthy mouse spent more time with a new item placed in its environment than it did with familiar items, as expected.

      In contrast, the group’s new mutant mouse treated all objects the same. “That turned out to be a spectacular result in the sense that novel object recognition memory was not just impaired, it was gone — as if we were deleting this one form of memory, leaving others intact,” Sejnowski says.

      The results were surprising, in part because astrocytes operate on a seconds-or-longer timescale, whereas neurons signal far faster, on the millisecond scale. Because of that slower speed, no one suspected astrocytes were involved in the high-speed brain activity needed to make quick decisions.

      “What I thought quite unique was the idea that astrocytes, traditionally considered only guardians and supporters of neurons and other cells, are also involved in the processing of information and in other cognitive behavior,” says Verma, a professor in the Laboratory of Genetics and American Cancer Society Professor.

      It’s not that astrocytes are quick — they’re still slower than neurons. But the new evidence suggests that astrocytes are actively supplying the right environment for gamma waves to occur, which in turn makes the brain more likely to learn and change the strength of its neuronal connections.

      Sejnowski says that the behavioral result is just the tip of the iceberg. “The recognition system is hugely important,” he says, adding that it includes recognizing other people, places, facts and things that happened in the past. With this new discovery, scientists can begin to better understand the role of gamma waves in recognition memory, he adds....
      Obligatory pretty picture with astrocytes in red and neurons in blue, and damaged astros in yellow:



      The alternating current transcranial stimuli given to induce lucidity in a nature paper, which has a thread on here, were gamma-range as well, by the way. Soo - is it something about recognition maybe, which triggers lucidity?

    4. #29
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      Um - I'm afraid, I don't understand your post, Box. I guess, you mean tACS - but how did Nash realize his affliction? I saw the movie 'A Beautiful Mind' about and with Nash and I loved it, highly recommended, but I can't see, where you are coming from. Same with the LSD - how do you mean, keep lucidity while on LSD? Who would sleep on LSD? I guess, you'll have to explain all this to me, I don't get it!

      What I do remember, is how horrifyingly Nash has been mistreated and abused in psychiatric institutions, though...

      Aand - made a thread from your link: http://www.dreamviews.com/science-ma...wn-dreams.html

    5. #30
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      Sorry, I have deleted the post [before I read your answer], I think it would be better to start a thread about it: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ml#post2116667 [to discuss about that particular, although I don't know if I put it in the right way]

      Quote Originally Posted by StephL View Post
      but how did Nash realize his affliction? I saw the movie 'A Beautiful Mind' about and with Nash and I loved it, highly recommended, but I can't see, where you are coming from. Same with the LSD - how do you mean, keep lucidity while on LSD? Who would sleep on LSD? I guess, you'll have to explain all this to me, I don't get it!

      What I do remember, is how horrifyingly Nash has been mistreated and abused in psychiatric institutions, though...
      As far as I can remember, he notices something about the little girl who uses to appear with the other guys, and that finally, is the breaking point where he accepts his state of mind. I don't know if it happened for real or is just part of the plot of the film, but I wondered if it could be possible to apply certain logic in those altered states of mind to help people to elucidate the difference and perhaps reach certain level of lucidity like in a lucid dream.
      Last edited by Box77; 08-05-2014 at 07:00 PM. Reason: time, timing, timed out... merged.
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    6. #31
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      Quote Originally Posted by Box77 View Post
      Sorry, I have deleted the post [before I read your answer], I think it would be better to start a thread about it: http://www.dreamviews.com/attaining-...ml#post2116667 [to discuss about that particular, although I don't know if I put it in the right way]
      Great - be assured, I will show up! Claiming that a person on say LSD loses lucidity, though - I think, you are under a misapprehension there. It's not so that people would forget or fail to have insight into their state of mind. One can talk about some mental faculties being impaired, yes - but not lucidity as in insight into the state of affairs, that's not lost with LSD normally - I will go quote in your thread, though, to demonstrate this.

      Quote Originally Posted by Box77 View Post
      As far as I can remember, he notices something about the little girl who uses to appear with the other guys, and that finally, is the breaking point where he accepts his state of mind. I don't know if it happened for real or is just part of the plot of the film, but I wondered if it could be possible to apply certain logic in those altered states of mind to help people to elucidate the difference and perhaps reach certain level of lucidity like in a lucid dream.
      Oh - that is most definitively possible anyway. Many people with hallucinations come to recognize and distinguish them from say real voices. Seems one can learn that with experience, and the official doctrine in psychiatry, that psychosis is out of bounds for talking psychotherapy is gone as well, including acutely. An only very recent development, though. Cognitive Behavioural Therapy seems to show good effects - esp. in gaining insight into the workings of it all, and to learn to deal and live with it. No wonder, psychoanalysis didn't work, if you ask me - they were geniuses nevertheless, though...

      It's for the individual person to decide, how much "disorder" is okay with them (well - at least until it's not okay with society any more) - weighed against the sort and dose of medication which would be needed to say completely silence the voices.
      Also check this out: Hearing Voices Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      It's also possible to be deluded on the one hand, and know that it is so on the other, but still believe in the delusion - weird thing called "double-bookkeeping" and rare as far as I know, but it's possible. Like seeing it for what it is and wanting it to go away and voluntarily take meds for it while still acting and thinking in accordance with the delusion.

      The DSM (diagnostic manual) - weak as it is - has these days the main criterion, if the person considers it a problem and actually suffers. Not that "something is off" as such any more. Well - I didn't look it up now - I hope, this is so and my memory with me - but anyway - progress is being made, noticeable but slowly. There has been so much barbarism in the field and still is in many places I suppose - like this insulin-shock therapy applied to Nash, and the olden days' electro convulsive therapy (ECT) without giving something to get rid of the muscle-spasms and the connected pain, which is easily possible. But at least the latter does demonstrably and often drastically alleviate severe depression - the former was just idiocy, often lethal...
      What I wasn't aware of to a time, was how it's the patients themselves, having to plead for ECT these days, at least in Germany. There are high standards set, also legally, and it's a very touchy subject - no clinic wants to get into the press with electro-shocking folks - exceedingly rarely done.

      New ways need to be found - and are!
      Stephen Fry made an excellent documentary - in my eyes - on bipolar disorder, including his own - I can't recommend watching it enough, actually.

      The second one is somewhat deeper, more personal, but also more interesting and with seriously moving stories - including his own severe depressive breakdown including finally hearing voices, which might have been the reason to make a follow-up on it. It starts with a short recap of the first one, but don't miss out on that, great interview with Carrie Fisher aka "princess Lea" from Star Wars and much more. Many people think - hallucinations - that's schizophrenia - even many doctors do. Among other things, because people lie about it, understandably. Hallucinations are perfectly within the bipolar range, delusions are actually typical for a severe mania.





      Been a while since I saw it - might just as well give it another watch - I love the man anyway! Edit: I did now.
      Always astounds me, how he manages to get paid, for what other people only dream of doing for some of his projects, and being such an intelligent, and eloquent and educated and outspoken person - such a fantastic comedian. I can't think of many truly "great minds" to admire these days, being completely serious here - he my hero!

      Buut: What Fry didn't include, because it is very recent, actually - is that ketamine gets statistically the same or even better effects than ECT can, even in the worst of depressive cases - cases, where the latter is considered. And it works within hours!
      And by involving the so called brain-derived nerve growth factor, actual anatomical activity ensues - new synapses - for more I needed to look that up in detail again. Maybe so does ECT, but by giving a trauma first, not a chemical trigger for growth and regeneration.

      Typical - only with those severely ill, research is being done at the moment - lesser "evil" - why evil? Because it has a reputation as a street-drug, not because of addictive potential, which is said to be minimal - nor because it has nasty side-effects - what seems to scare people, is the idea, that it has psychedelic side effects - but even that can be (almost) done away with by giving it very slowly, or subcutaneously. It's been safely used in anaesthesia for ages. But man - people pleading to get zapped, killing themselves - good that "they" caught the message for those poor souls, for starters - who can argue with new synapses?! But how would you feel - being "only" very depressed, but not severely, not suicidal and hence denied relief, possibly total and lasting relief, and within hours?

      There:
      BBC News - Ketamine 'exciting' depression therapy
      BBC NEWS | Health | Drug 'treats depression in hours'


      What he also fails to mention in a bit of depth is that there are alternatives to Lithium, less toxic and you can stop them with less risk to relapse. They are antiepileptic drugs doing a very similar thing, they have their downfalls, too - but in comparison...
      The doc with her fish-oil and omega 3 fatty acids has a good point, too - Li and the other mood-stabilizers seem to have as a mechanism the stabilization of neural membranes - and membranes are made of fatty acids, and the highly unsaturated ones are beneficial. Soo - lots of fish, babies - at least for a try! Who can argue with her 15 years of peace and even working as a physician again and with no pill whatsoever? I hope she stays in her comfort-zone and it looks so to me! Seems Britain has an anti-discrimination act out, which did it's part to enable her getting the job - being the other docs' very own token loony, as she jokes... This legislation is great, I don't think, we got such a thing here - and this docu is fantastic to combat stigma! Of course I hope for part three coming up, but hopefully not because of new troubles of his, but because of good news.

      As you can guess - I'm very interested in mental health - in science anyway - in neuroscience anyway - but psychiatry especially fascinates me...

    7. #32
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      Just one add on the run, because of I'm updating my odd memo-data [Definitively your links are on the list] Do you know if there's some device that controls brain waves activity, in the way an EEG does, but during a 'normal' day? I'm just reading about brain waves and it seems to me, that it's all based on observations made in a laboratory (Which reminds me another film, 'Amelie' and the scene about her father who diagnosed her something about her heart when it was just her emotion towards the opportunity of being close to her dad). I'd like to know if there's a study made 'on the field' to determine the brain wave activity during an ordinary day, I mean, without all the 'tam-tam' of being studied.
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      Quote Originally Posted by Box77 View Post
      Just one add on the run, because of I'm updating my odd memo-data [Definitively your links are on the list] Do you know if there's some device that controls brain waves activity, in the way an EEG does, but during a 'normal' day? I'm just reading about brain waves and it seems to me, that it's all based on observations made in a laboratory (Which reminds me another film, 'Amelie' and the scene about her father who diagnosed her something about her heart when it was just her emotion towards the opportunity of being close to her dad). I'd like to know if there's a study made 'on the field' to determine the brain wave activity during an ordinary day, I mean, without all the 'tam-tam' of being studied.
      I guess, you meant record brain-waves? I hadn't heard about something equivalent to say portable ECG devices, registering your heart-activity to this day.
      But I looked up portable EEG, and there are indeed such things: Portable Eeg Machine, Portable Eeg Machine Products, Portable Eeg Machine Suppliers and Manufacturers at Alibaba.com
      If it's not okay with this link - just check out alibaba and portable EEG, they even have ones with bluetooth...

      Aand - I can really recommend watching the second video, by the way!

    9. #34
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      Quote Originally Posted by StephL View Post
      I guess, you meant record brain-waves? I hadn't heard about something equivalent to say portable ECG devices, registering your heart-activity to this day.
      But I looked up portable EEG, and there are indeed such things: Portable Eeg Machine, Portable Eeg Machine Products, Portable Eeg Machine Suppliers and Manufacturers at Alibaba.com
      If it's not okay with this link - just check out alibaba and portable EEG, they even have ones with bluetooth...
      It's good to know, I'll check for some data about those portable EEG, seems to be a very interesting thing because of it could give more light on what I'm interested to understand.

      Quote Originally Posted by StephL View Post
      Aand - I can really recommend watching the second video, by the way!
      I watched both, it seems to me that he could have a major problem than the bipolar thing because of I didn't catch if he left the 'self-medication' stuff?? Must check it again. Anyway, I liked the overview of the illness and its existing options for a 'treatment', although I was a bit uncomfortable with the background music, like trying to highlight a particular feeling in the observer.

      Now I'm on the next links you posted and hope I can come with something digestible to the next door thread.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Zoth View Post
      Would be nice if they found a way to circumvent the bbb and transport the virus to reach the desired neurons
      Are they getting closer? Scientists have opened the blood-brain barrier for the first time
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      Ah - very interesting, Box! For visualisation:



      What is now the blood-brain-barrier? It's the fact, that the cells lining the blood vessels are not just next to each other, but have these "tight junctions" between them. Another aspect, missing in the above picture are the astrocytes, which connect directly with vessels, and they have transporter-channels, active and passive, to let certain select substances through to the brain, but not directly; nerve-cells take up those from the astrocytes, like the nice blue star-shaped cell below:




      They say, that if you ping this implant, and it sends out ultrasound for two minutes, then the beforehand injected micro-bubbles vibrate in such a way as to disrupt this for about six hours, until the cells have closed ranks and their tight junctions again. And if you give meds in that interval - well, they get where they are supposed to go.
      The region in which the bubbles are vibrating so much is very small, only directly around the implant, very practical. Especially when it comes to post-op chemotherapy, you've got surgical access to the region already, and by giving it directly where it's needed - you can reduce the dose of these not very healthy, but potentially life-saving, or at least life-prolonging chemicals. Glioblastoma is one of the worst tumours to have, not going at it radically means you're dead within weeks of diagnosis.

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      How permanent stress may lead to mental disorders | KurzweilAI

      How permanent stress may lead to mental disorders

      Activated through permanent stress, immune cells in the brain can cause changes to the brain, resulting in mental disorders, a research team headed by professor Georg Juckel, Medical Director of the Ruhr-Universität Bochum (RUB) LWL university clinic, has found. The research was based on psychoneuroimmunology, the study of the interaction between psychological processes and the nervous and immune systems of the human body.

      The team focused mainly on microglia, a type of glial cell that acts as the main immune defense in the central nervous system and comprise 10–15% of all cells found within the brain. Under normal circumstances, microglia repair synapses between nerves cells in the brain and stimulate their growth. Repeatedly activated, however, microglia may damage nerve cells and trigger inflammation processes — a risk factor for mental diseases such as schizophrenia, the researchers found.

      Interactions between the brain and immune system

      “Originally, the brain and the immune system were considered two separate systems,” explains Juckel in RUB’s RUBIN publication. “It was assumed that the brain operates independently from the immune system and has hardly anything to do with it. This, however, is not true.

      Direct neural connections from the brain to organs of the immune system, such as the spleen, do exist. And vice versa, immune cells migrate to the brain, and local immune cells carry out various tasks there, including disposing of damaged synapses. Notably, treatment with an immune system mediator such as Interferon alpha, used in hepatitis C treatment, for example, leads to depressions in 20 to 30 per cent of the patients.

      The RUB studies of microglia focused on patients suffering from multiple sclerosis or Alzheimer’s. “The brain areas affected by inflammation or neurodegeneration are surrounded by a circle of microglial cells,” says Juckel. “In schizophrenia patients, the number of microglial cells is considerably higher than in healthy individuals. Here, the cells cause synaptic links between neurons to degenerate,” especially in schizophrenia patients.

      Microglial cells can also be activated via the peripheral immune system (outside the brain). “Acute stress stimulates the immune system. In stress situations, the body readies itself for fight or flight [and] prepares itself for potential injuries,” explains researcher Astrid Friebe, whose team at the LWL clinic lab studies the mechanisms involved in these processes. But under permanent stress, “microglial cells adapt to the new conditions, in a way. The more frequently they get triggered due to stress, the more they are inclined to remain in that mode. This is when microglial cells start to pose a danger to the brain.”

      But not every individual who is under permanent stress will develop a mental disorder, the researchers note. They suspect the cause starts in the embryonic stage. U.S. researchers demonstrated in the 1950s that children born of mothers who contracted true viral influenza during pregnancy were seven times as likely to suffer schizophrenia later in life. The RUB researchers confirmed this hypothesis in animal models.
      These are further data which point to an autoimmune origin of schizophrenia and depression. Fascinating - also that 20-30% get depression from immunosuppressants, that's a lot, it really is. And if pregnant - avoid influenza virus by all means!!

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