Thread: The secrets of intelligence lie within a single cell

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Why not? Math, just like everything else we do, is governed by a set of defined or perceived rules; and the goal is always the same, to get "the answer". The answer is the thing that intelligence optimizes towards.

If math is like anything else, you shouldn't have any problems finding examples of cells doing abstract math.
But you can't find cellular equivalent of, for example, reductio ad absurdum. Math doesn't depend on external stimuli.

Originally Posted by tommo

There's no reason for cells to suddenly become somehow more intelligent when they are combined.

I never said that cells become more intelligent. I said that the network of cells is more intelligent than individual cells. And not just quantitatively more intelligent, there's a qualitative difference. Networks can do things individual cells can't.

Originally Posted by tommo

They are just communicating with each other, that's all. They are still, individually, not 'intelligent'.

Cells that "just communicate" is what our brains are. Again, read previous posts again and you will see that no one in this thread mentioned anything about cells becoming more intelligent individually.

Originally Posted by tommo

It's like if you get a group of mentally retarded people in a room, they aren't going to become smarter, and it's unlikely that they would create something that they couldn't have alone.

That's a really bad analogy. No one is claiming that a group of mentally retarded people is an intelligent system.

Can an ant colony do something individual ants can't do on their own? Yes
Can a flock of birds do something an individual birds can't do on their own? Yes
Can a swarm of bacteria do something individual cells can't do on their own? Yes
Can a brain do something that neural cells can't do on their own? Yes
Can a group of scientists do something an individual scientist can't do on it's own? Yes.

Originally Posted by tommo

Unless you suggest that individual cells can learn from each other.

I'm suggesting that they can. I'm also suggesting that this is called synaptic plasticity and that it's a big part of how brains work.

Originally Posted by SnakeCharmer

If math is like anything else, you shouldn't have any problems finding examples of cells doing abstract math.
But you can't find cellular equivalent of, for example, reductio ad absurdum. Math doesn't depend on external stimuli.

Huh? You wouldn't know what math is without external stimuli, so it is definitely dependent. I don't know why you think cells not being able to do abstract math is some sort of linch-pin argument; I have already said that cells are not as intelligent as humans, and the concept of math is dependent on the way we process information and so it is meaningless to a cell anyway. Can you make a perfect copy of yourself? No? Then you must not be as intelligent as a cell...

Originally Posted by SnakeCharmer

Cells that "just communicate" is what our brains are. Again, read previous posts again and you will see that no one in this thread mentioned anything about cells becoming more intelligent individually.

Ok I kind of forgot my point and I've written it in a fairly incoherent way. It was convoluted.
But, that is exactly what I said. We are just a collection of cells.

Originally Posted by SnakeCharmer

That's a really bad analogy. No one is claiming that a group of mentally retarded people is an intelligent system.

Um, yes but I was saying that retarded people could be equivalent to one brain cell.
LMAO that sounds mean, but metaphorically speaking.
They don't become smarter when thy get in a group. I mean the GROUP doesn't get smarter.
They might appear smarter, because they are interacting, but they are still not smarter even collectively.

We only appear smarter than single cells because we are just a group of cells working together.

Originally Posted by SnakeCharmer

I'm suggesting that they can. I'm also suggesting that this is called synaptic plasticity and that it's a big part of how brains work.

Ok this might be where my argument falls through. Regions of the brain can take on tasks when the 'proper' region is unable to. But also nobody really knows why. It might not be any sort of learning.
Nobody knows how brain cells even operate. So I am unable to argue this any further.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

You wouldn't know what math is without external stimuli, so it is definitely dependent.

You train your neural network. After a while it becomes capable of reasoning things that have nothing to do with original training data or the external world. This is something that comes out of the entire network, it can never be reduced to what single cells do. Everything a human brain is capable of is an emergent property of the network, it comes out of cellular interaction, yet it cannot be studied on the level of individual cells. Just like cellular behavior is studied on the level of molecular networks, and not on the level of individual molecules.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Can you make a perfect copy of yourself? No? Then you must not be as intelligent as a cell...

Cells don't make perfect copies of themselves.
Besides, I don't see how being able to copy something is a measure of intelligence.

Originally Posted by tommo

Um, yes but I was saying that retarded people could be equivalent to one brain cell.
LMAO that sounds mean, but metaphorically speaking.
They don't become smarter when thy get in a group. I mean the GROUP doesn't get smarter.
They might appear smarter, because they are interacting, but they are still not smarter even collectively.

I don't quite understand what you are trying to say here. Brains are clearly "smarter" than single neurons.

Originally Posted by tommo

We only appear smarter than single cells because we are just a group of cells working together.

I disagree. We are "smarter" because we are a highly organized network of cells.

Originally Posted by tommo

Regions of the brain can take on tasks when the 'proper' region is unable to. But also nobody really knows why. It might not be any sort of learning.

It's not just that. Every neuron remodels the way it interacts with other neurons based on signals it gets from other neurons. This is learning

Originally Posted by tommo

Nobody knows how brain cells even operate.

It's far from being completely understood, but they're not black boxes to us.

Originally Posted by SnakeCharmer

If math is like anything else, you shouldn't have any problems finding examples of cells doing abstract math.

Cells divide. And multiply.

Originally Posted by Dannon Oneironaut

Cells divide. And multiply.

Yeah, biology is the only place where division = multiplication

You still don't understand what I'm saying. I'm not gonna repeat it.

Originally Posted by tommo

You still don't understand what I'm saying. I'm not gonna repeat it.

Then ignore that part you think I don't understand and answer my question:
Can you define "smart" or "intelligent" in a way that doesn't make neural networks "smarter" or more "intelligent" than single cells?