Thread: Why dream experience is fundamental and so very important

The only way to get about the abyss is to be as the abyss.

by Author Frank Martin DiMeglio

How poetic.

I vote this thread get closed, personally. No discussion is actually taking place, which is what a thread is for in the first place--or at least this one was supposed to be anyway.

Honestly, maybe it would be a nice debate if this post was easier to understand...

This has nothing to do with right or wrong ideas, it's just a languaje barrier. It's not ideas what are being ridiculed in this post, but the way of showing them. It's like the author is trying to condense a lot of knowledge, more than enough to write an entire book, in just a single post, therefore many concepts and ideas are left unexplained. Without a full grasp of each concept, one by one, it's not possible to understand how each of those factors interact, and let's not talk about being able to see the whole picture. No debate can take place in this situation. It's like trying to teach third grade equations to people that can't even add. As they don't understand anything you say, they won't pay attention.

I, for one, don't even know what a "vision that begins invisibly inside the eye" is. How can vision be invisible? It doesn't make any sense! I mean, vision is the things that you see, and you can't see things that are invisible, therefore vision can't be invisible, can it?

And where is that "middle distance in the space" where dream experience is supposed to take place? The middle of the universe, the "metaphorical space" inside your mind, or what? And if there is a middle, what's at the extremes, if there are any?

What being "conscious and alive" mean? You are not conscious in a non-lucid dream, are you not? If you were, you could take rational decisions, right? And is obvious you are alive while dreaming: you are sleeping, and non-living things don't sleep. But something tells me that's not what you mean with being "alive". But wathever you mean, I'm far from understanding it.

And why are feeling/touch, eye/body, force/energy separated by slashes? It makes reading even harder @_@

Some footnotes would be more helpful than slashes and bolds and underlines.

The only thing I think I understand is that, as dreams are experience, just like waking life, and experience is what makes you grow and change (you are not the same person as ten years ago thanks to experience), then dreams also contribute to that growth. Is that right?

The only thing I think I understand is that, as dreams are experience, just like waking life, and experience is what makes you grow and change (you are not the same person as ten years ago thanks to experience), then dreams also contribute to that growth. Is that right?

I dont think that Frank will reply to you since he dont want to discuss or reply to anything by anyone so far. (Except if you say that he is totally right, then maybe you get a short respond) Any ways, I would say that you have grasped the whole point about this thread with your last question. Dont put to much effort into this thread, like I have done so far.. I actually dont think that even the OP know what he are talking about to be honest.

The experience of the eye/body is both invisible and visible. That is a clear fact. There is a visible dome of the eye/body, and yet the visible experience of the eye/body is invisible as well. Vision (that means visible) begins invisibly inside the eye/body. That is a fact. That answers that question.

Visible and invisible space in fundamental equilibrium and balance IS the middle distance in/of space, logically, clearly, and fundamentally. That answers that question, and this is important.

In waking experience, stand up and look at the VISIBLE Earth/ground. Full mobility involves full gravity in relation to, and in conjunction with, full distance in/of space. We want to compare waking experience with dream experience. Now, touch the top of your head; and look straight down at the ground. We to match up distance in/of space as it is seen, felt, and touched. Notice that the VISIBLE body extends all of the way to the VISIBLE Earth/ground...Full gravity involves full distance in/of space as it is seen, touched, and felt. Notice the range of gravitational feeling that extends from the top of the head to the VISIBLE Earth/ground.

The key here is that this involves visible space. Comparatively, in dreams, space is invisible and visible in fundamental equilibrium and balance. Dream experience is consistent with bodily (including visual) experience. Dreams balance being and experience. Vision begins invisibly inside the eye/body. Think! Dream experience is that of the MIDDLE distance in/of space. This is in keeping with balanced MIDDLE strength force/energy feeling/touch and INSTANTANEITY.

This is crystal clear to people who are relatively intelligent. My other ideas do, in fact, match up with all of this. This is most excellent and clear.

By Author Frank Martin DiMeglio

Originally Posted by FrankDiMeglio

This is crystal clear to people who are relatively intelligent.

So since the majority of the people posting on this thread don't understand what you're saying, we must be stupid? You're insulting our intelligence now?

My vote has been changed. This is going nowhere. Lock it down.

Why is it incorrect spellbee2 ? It is correct.

We are conscious and alive in dreams in conjunction with what is the fundamental experience of our growth and becoming other than we are. THIS IS PERFECTLY CLEAR AND CORRECT.

We have this waking experience, and we have the manifestation that is (and that involves) our growth and becoming other than we are. We know that. Dream experience is separate from both of these experiences; but dream experience is also linked with both of these experiences. This is in keeping with the fact that dream experience combines and balances our growth and becoming other than we are with our being conscious and alive. in conjunction therewith. Accordingly, dream experience is that of the MIDDLE distance in/of space. Great ! Therefore:

1) Dreams balance possible/potential AND actual experience.
2) Dreams balance being and experience.
3) Dreams balance conscious and unconscious experience.
4) Dream experience is necessarily that of the middle distance in/of space.

See the connection between item 1) and 4) ? Great !

We are conscious and alive in dreams in conjunction with what is the fundamental experience of our growth and becoming other than we are. THIS IS PERFECTLY CLEAR AND CORRECT.

Awesome !

If you are relatively intelligent, then this is perfectly clear. I know that.

How many of you now "get it" ?

by Frank Martin DiMeglio

Our growth and becoming other than we are necessarily involves an essential mastery of physics/physical experience; and, in dreams, we are conscious and alive in conjunction therewith. Accordingly, dreams are the theoretical, natural, true, ingenious, ultimate, fundamental, and actual unification of physics/physical experience. Therefore, there is no outsmarting the genius of dreams.


Dreams are fundamentally and truly understood in a simple fashion in keeping with the following:

Dreams make thought more like sensory experience, thereby improving upon memory and understanding.

AND

The ability of thought to describe or reconfigure sensory experience is ultimately dependent upon the extent to which thought is similar to sensory experience.

Thought takes place with dream experience....Dreams involve ultimately and fundamentally (including theoretically) balanced and equivalent inertia, gravity, and electromagnetism. I proved this.

by Author Frank Martin DiMeglio

We

Cannot

Understand

What

You

Are

Trying

To

Say

Originally Posted by FrankDiMeglio

Why is it incorrect spellbee2 ? It is correct.

Did you even read my post? I never said you were incorrect (although I never said you were correct, either). Or are you saying it's correct that you think we're stupid?

Also, saying THIS IS PERFECTLY CLEAR AND CORRECT in all caps does not make anything perfect, clear, or correct.

And incidentally, I see no connection between 1) and 4)

Originally Posted by FrankDiMeglio

The experience of the eye/body is both invisible and visible. That is a clear fact. There is a visible dome of the eye/body, and yet the visible experience of the eye/body is invisible as well. Vision (that means visible) begins invisibly inside the eye/body. That is a fact. That answers that question.

Hmm...
Hmmm...
Hmm...

So it's both... then... uhm... Ok, so if I see a "something". A physical object... Let's say a person. The person is there, perfectly tangible before my eyes. But, before I can actually see the person, vision must begin from within myself. If it doesn't, then I don't experience the image of the person. For example, I could stare in direction to that person, but not being actually looking at them because I'm too distracted thinking about the exams I'm having this week, so I have the person in front of me, but I actually don't experience them because my vision is not active, even if my eyes are open.

But, if my vision has begun or not inside of me, that's not something an external eye can discern, therefore it's invisible.

Also, the vision from within, it may be our perspective. I could look at the person and see they are smiling, or sad. Another one will look at the same person from the same angle, and will notice the clothes. Another one will just look at their posture, etc. So, the same empirical fact will be experienced differently by different eyes, because that visual experience starts differently within us in a way that can not be seen by an external eye.

I don't know if I'm digressing here or not...

Originally Posted by FrankDiMeglio

Visible and invisible space in fundamental equilibrium and balance IS the middle distance in/of space, logically, clearly, and fundamentally. That answers that question, and this is important.

Visible and invisible space... in balance... I still don't get it. Let's see if I get something from the next quote, which seems related to this.

Originally Posted by FrankDiMeglio

1) Dreams balance possible/potential AND actual experience.
2) Dreams balance being and experience.
3) Dreams balance conscious and unconscious experience.
4) Dream experience is necessarily that of the middle distance in/of space.

See the connection between item 1) and 4) ? Great

1)Ok... dreams help to balance what you can, and what you actually had experienced. So... then... uh... Ok, let's say, my total potential to experience is 100%. But, in waking life, Im are not fully aware of my surroundings, not putting all of their potential to experience things, I get distracted... so my actual experience is 50% of my potential.
Also, even if I was totally aware of everything when awake, taking experience from all I see and feel, I can't reach that 100%, because I'm lacking in dream experience. Let's say my dream experience adds add's a whooping 25% to my wake experience (before the dream, AE = WE). Dream experience adds to my wake experience, so my actual experience gets closer to my potential experience. At this moment, AE = WE + DE.*

As actual experience is closer to 100%, actual and potential experience are more equilibrated. If we had two weight balances, and, in the first one, we put my PE on one side, and my AE (being AE = WE) on the other, and on the second balance, we put my PE on one side, and my AE (being AE = WE + DE) on the other, the second balance will be closer to equilibrium.

*WE= Wake Exp. DE= Dream Exp. AE= Actual Exp. PE= Potential Exp.

Is what I said correct? I don't want to go to the second item without being absolutely sure I understood the first one.

...

By the way, you should improve your language. The most awesome ideas can be crippled by lack of an adaptable vocabulary. Words makes a HUGE difference, at anything.

Have you read 1984? I haven't, but I was told how, in the novel, the leaders of that world altered language so concepts like "freedom" or "thinking by myself" could not be even grasped for society, and much less desired.

And it really happens. If you change language, you will change society's way of seeing reallity. I could bring some examples, like "gender" or "bullying". Those things did not exist for society when there weren't words/concepts for them, even if they were real. If you talked about those concepts before they were apprehended by society, people would be just hearing nonsense. Even the most intelligent of men can not understand a word that has is alien to him.

That's basically what's happening here.

Frank is a troll and it's a travesty that he hasn't been banned.

Lol so are you.

But I rarely ban in ED, because that's like saying a poop shouldn't belong in a toilet.

Originally Posted by OpheliaBlue

Lol so are you.

But I rarely ban in ED, because that's like saying a poop shouldn't belong in a toilet.

While you raise a good point, you do actually flush your poop down the toilet after it's sat in there long enough, don't you?

Oh fine! Pick apart my metaphor then!!

PROOF OF WHAT DREAMS REALLY ARE:

ALSO, HERE IS WHY MODERN PHYSICS IS BASICALLY LOST REGARDING UNIFICATION THEORY:

Moreover, here is clear and definitive proof that dimensions of space are ultimately and fundamentally meaningless.

The direct/real/true/actual/natural experience of outer space AS IT IS destroys and PRECLUDES us, our THOUGHT, and all of our experience (including visual). The space is black, there is weightlessness, and we are not touching anything. Think about it. It ALL makes sense. The understanding of outer space is inherently and significantly limited. Indeed, the ability of thought to DESCRIBE OR reconfigure sensory experience is ULTIMATELY dependent upon the extent to which thought is SIMILAR to sensory experience. This is a truly great fact/truth. THIS IS TRUE OF BOTH TELEVISION AND DREAM EXPERIENCE.

The ideal and extensive understanding of physics/physical experience NATURALLY balances BOTH being AND experience and combines, balances, and includes opposites. This includes direct bodily experience as it is seen, felt, AND touched. When true and fundamental equivalency and balancing of inertia and gravity is lacking, there is (and there can be) no true understanding of space.

Dreams make thought MORE LIKE sensory experience in general, thereby improving upon memory and UNDERSTANDING. Dreams can be DESCRIBED AND UNDERSTOOD in a true and simple fashion.

Dream experience is possible/potential AND actual in balance. In dreams, we are conscious and alive in conjunction with the fundamental EXPERIENCE of our growth and becoming other than we are. This involves a natural and theoretical mastery of physics/physical experience. In fact, dreams do involve fundamentally and ultimately equivalent and balanced gravity, inertia, and electromagnetism. The space is invisible AND visible in FUNDAMENTAL equilibrium and balance. (This is true/real and ideal quantum gravity.) Accordingly, INSTANTANEITY, balanced MIDDLE strength force/energy feeling/touch, and MIDDLE distance in/of space are all present and in agreement.

Dream experience is consistent with bodily (including visual) experience, AND dreams balance being AND experience. VISION begins INVISIBLY inside the eye/body. Indeed, dream experience is that of the middle distance in/of space. Accordingly, the space is invisible AND visible in FUNDAMENTAL equilibrium and balance.

It is a great truth/fact that the self represents, forms, and experiences a comprehensive approximation of experience in general by combining conscious and unconscious experience. Dream experience is fundamentally consistent with the most fundamental and great truth/fact. Indeed, if the self did not represent, form, and experience a comprehensive approximation of experience in general by combining conscious and unconscious experience, we would then be incapable of growth and of becoming other than we are. In dreams, we are conscious and alive in conjunction with the fundamental EXPERIENCE of our growth and becoming other than we are. This is now proven. Dreams balance conscious and unconscious experience. There is no outsmarting the genius of dreams. Dreams balance being AND experience.

While dream experience is MORE LIKE thought, television is FULLY LIKE thought. Television is a creation of thought. Dreams are not a creation of thought.

Dreams and waking experience are separate experiences (as it is now proven they would be), and yet they are FUNDAMENTALLY related and FUNDAMENTALLY linked as well. That is both obvious and undeniable.

The physics/physical experience of dreams exists. It is real. It is super important. This is proven.

THIS IS GIGANTIC SCIENCE NEWS.

by Author Frank Martin DiMeglio

Frank's posts have become a sort of reliable wallpaper around which we all have a separate conversation...maybe we should keep him around?

Sort of like that old grandparent who repeats their stories, but you listen despite being frustrated anyway.

BINGO, I win!

holy rofl bee

It was a little more difficult than I expected. There wasn't any formatting other than capitalization, so that got rid of 3 of my spaces. Although now looking at it, the title is technically all bold, italicized, and underlined, so I could have added all three. Still wouldn't have made any more bingos, though...

Hehe, "GIGANTIC SCIENCE NEWS".

This guy is on a lucid dream forum saying that watching television is a more creative expression of the mind than dreaming is. Might as well just toss everything out there and see what sticks, eh?

If that (along with the other eight pages of gibberish) isn't enough to lock this thread, I simply don't understand the logic behind such decisions.

Let it go on indefinately, I say. No matter what happens he'll regurgitate the same stuff less than a week from now anyway.

Mystery "Tips for Jesus" tipper identified is headed down the exact same road, give it another 5 pages, just for funsies.

This thread is awesome, fundamentally.

Originally Posted by acatalephobic

This guy is on a lucid dream forum saying that watching television is a more creative expression of the mind than dreaming is. Might as well just toss everything out there and see what sticks, eh?

Hmm. I think he's not talking about creativity, but about a thinking process. In a (non-lucid)dream, any visual experience you take is not something you though beforehand. On the other hand, when you watch a movie, there was a deep though process: different use of colors, close-ups, shots, background music and so will provide a different experience from the same scene, so the scriptwriter, the cameramen, the director, etc. need to know exactly what they want to make you feel.


Talking about TV, ¿it's just me, or sometimes dreams feel like watching a movie? I have tons of those lately, in which weird things happen but I won't think about them because in the dream I'm just "watching movies" or "playing a first-person videogame". I even criticized the plot holes, or complained about the glitches, lol.
Maybe I should try some kind of "try to look away from the screen" reality check when I'm using the computer...