Originally Posted by
rasdaman
Ok, I see I had underestimated pre crisis supes. If he can snuff out an entire solar system like nothing, then he would be one badass dude.
To compare fairly :
In DBZ, there was once a villain called Brolly, who did the same thing, i.e. snuffing out the north galaxy(whatever that is), in the blink of an eye.
This was with Goku super saiyan 1. Goku was defeated in a one on one with him.
However, Goku did eventually win by combining powers from 3 other super saiyans and a namek (roughly = super saiyan). a Super Saiyan (SSJ 1) has a power level of 15 million. Total strength needed = 5* 15 = 75 million.
Super saiyan 2 (SSJ 2) has a power level of 80 million. Goku reaches this stage by the middle of dbz.
Super saiyan 3 (SSJ 3) was more powerful than 2 SSJ 2s, as shown when goku-vegeta face off against buu.
Hence, SSJ 3 = at least 160 million.
Techniques :
Speed: Superman can do millions of times the speed of light.
Characters in DBZ, exceeded light speed in the 4th episode. Power level needed was 1000.
By the end of all 250 episodes, goku’s power would be at least 160 million at his peak(as calculated above). Hence, he should be moving at 160,000 times light speed at normal fighting.
Conclusion, in normal fighting, supes would make goku stand still.
However, Goku also has instantaneous transport -> infinite speed. This would radically alter the fight, by letting goku get out of harm’s way more easily.
Conclusion, Goku, can potentially outspeed anyone who does not know instant transport.
Sensing: Goku relies on Ki to detect and fight an opponent. Supes uses supervision, hearing, smell etc. Goku can detect Ki’s from across the universe. Pre-crisis supes might be able to smell from across the universe for all I know.
Conclusion, tie.
Durability: Supes is invulnerable.
Goku’s invulnerability is comparable to that of superman. DBZ villains pack atom bombs into their punches at power level 1000. Buu was around power 1000 million -> 1 billion, i.e. 1 million atom bomb power punches. Goku took the hits without dying.
Conclusion: Hard to say, tie perhaps ?
Interdimensional travel: Both have been there, done that.
Time travel: Goku has done that with trunks' time machine, in an undubbed japanese video.
Supes might have done that under some nameless author sometime.
Conclusion: Tie.
Juggling planets/galaxies: Supes juggles galaxies.
Don’t know, goku has never tried it. He can destroy them, but it is unknown whether he can also juggle them.
He does win against opponents who can exert forces that are very large, as pointed above, so perhaps he can lift the galaxies as well or at least a few planets and maybe even a sun smiley
Conclusion: Supes might have an upper hand at juggling.
Energy beams/Heat rays: Supes heat ray is equal to the heat of 100 million star cores.
Heat ray’s heat is a different matter. Its a form of energy. If it is the power of a 100 million sun cores, then it would probably kill goku straight out. If it makes contact that is.....
Goku can potentially output 160,000 atom bombs worth of energy normally. If he develops a spirit bomb (the one that killed buu was a few Billion in power level), he could give out a few million atom bombs = a couple of suns. He also has a move called destructo disk, which throws a disk that cuts through nearly anything, including entire planets. This could be as fatal to supes as his death ray would be to Goku.
Conclusion: Heat ray is badass ! But, goku might be able to threaten supes similarly with destructo disks.
Weaknesses: Superman has two glaring weakness, kryptonite and magic.
Goku has no crippling weaknesses, no magic spells can kill him, unlike supes. He can pretty much repel anything to some degree with the help of Ki. Three things have been shown to weaken him, excess heat, excess cold, lack of food for prolonged amounts of time.
He has been also shown to be weak to a lack of air. However, it should be noted that Super saiyans have fought in the vacuum of space, e.g. Brolli and Vegeta. They simply take enough air with them.
Dimension disturbing: Superman can create time/dimensional rifts.
Goku has never directly done this. However the other super saiyan 3 -> gotenks did demonstrate this once, by screaming to open a rift between worlds.
Intelligence: Supes is a genius.
Goku is a naive village simpleton. However, when it comes to fighting, he is the master of strategy and is the best mind in the universe. This is a very surprising and unsettling change, to watch the normally bumbling goku transform into a Wing Tzu style tactician.
Conclusion: Goku is not gonna get through high school, but he will be an equal in brains when it comes to fighting supes.
Willpower: Supes has a vast reservoir of will. And it has helped him stick it through the worst of the worst. However, supes has broken down from grief on more than one occasion, and from self doubt too.
Goku is also known to be one stubborn fighter. He has shown comparable will as superman. However, he is not stopped by grief.
When his family dies, he still remains tightly focussed on the fight to come. He has never had self doubts (too naive). He has fought with a hole in his chest, and four broken limbs (headbutt). When completely broken, he supported the rest of the fighters by guiding them telepathically. He did the same from beyond the grave.
Conclusion: Supes maybe stubborn, but Goku is the definition of the term hard headed.
Miscalleneous: Another difference in Supes and Goku is that, Goku keeps coming back as a spirit from beyond the dead. If Supes dies, he is probably dead for good. But, Goku keeps intervening in fights, and throwing critical punches, even after he is dead.
Conclusion: Its kinda hard to kill a dead guy !
Final thoughts:
Superman:
If we were to put pre crisis supes in the galaxy snuffing category, power level wise, he would be about half strength of super saiyan 3, which would be potentially universe snuffing strength (less powerful than buu, who could wipe the universe and all other dimensions in a heartbeat.)
However, he does have some advantages, such as the heat (death) ray, much higher speed (which is somewhat balanced by Goku’s instant transport).
He also has some large disadvantages (lower punch power, kryptonite and magic), two of which, GOku can bring to the fight (Punches and magic).
Goku:
Goku will die, if he faces the heat ray. He will be much slower than Supes without instant transport. If he faces Supes' cold breath, he might have a problem too, though he has been frozen on more than one occasion, and saiyans like brolly managed to stay frozen for decades no problem.
Goku can punch harder, move over large distances faster, destroy the universe at will, fight from beyond the grave, use magic (spirit bombs)
So, it really boils down to when pre crisis supes fights Goku. If he does so before the middle of the dbz saga, Goku wouldn’t have half his tricks, and would be only a tenth as strong. Supes would easily destroy goku.
Otherwise, Goku would have a very large upper hand.
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