Thread: Managing my DSPS

I guess I can talk, since I am afraid to sleep sometimes because I often have disturbing dreams, not nightmares, just weird, odd, dark, sad, depressing, grey dreams. But, I just as often have happy dreams, it's just I can't tell if when I go to sleep, if I'm gonna end up in a depressing dream, or a happy dream, and so I put off sleeping until late, like now... >_>. But, what you have sounds interesting... I couldn't imagine feeling like I would at night in the morning. I don't mean to poke into your personal life or anything, but does it affect relationships with friends or family at all? Have you considered trying to take supplements, such as melotonin, while trying to get on what people without your condition would consider a 'normal' schedule?

Your dreaming sounds like mine. I always have dreams of that nature, but never any happy dreams. I have REM-cycle only dreaming so I know how you feel when you say that you are afraid to go to sleep, and I have no idea if that is a result of my DSPS. Anyway, I don't mind your asking me anything like that, I'm a very open person. It does indeed affect my relationship with family and friends. I have times where I promised to do something like go somewhere or pick someone up, then I try to stay awake to do these things and I always fall asleep whether I want to or not. Just yesterday I promised my fiancée that I would bring him his lunch at 11 o'clock am because he didn't have money for the machine, and of course I stay sitting up, fighting my sleep but my condition had other plans. Last I remember I'm watching tv, keeping my eye on the clock then next thing I know I'm dreaming then getting woken up by a yelling, angry fiancée 6 hours later. When the situation involves my mom I get woken up to my phone ringing and when I answer my mom is asking what happened and then she gets mad and tells me I need to stop staying up all night, as if I can help it! She knows my condition but I think she's in denial. I was also supposed to take a test the other day to determine what type of math class I'm supposed to take for college and I, of course, fall asleep against my will and wake up an hour after the test started. I sit straight up to try to stay awake and refuse to lay down no matter how tired I am but I guess when I fall asleep I fall over. I must look like I'm literally passing out. My doctor gave me a narcotic to take at the time I want to go to sleep but one side effect of DSPS is sleeping drugs don't work. The most I felt was a drunk feeling for a few hours then afterward I'm wide awake again.

I also had DSPS, but it was when I was younger. It's great that you're trying to get better! I did the wrong thing and chose to ignore it, once all the medications and techniques my doctor gave me didn't help at all. But when I started in college my DSPS wound up becoming Non-24, which is like DSPS on crack. Your brain's circadian rhythm is so off-base that it thinks there's more than 24 hours in a day, which causes you to go to sleep later and wake up later each day, going completely around the clock in the period of a few weeks (for me, I get about a week of normal nighttime sleep, and then it switches slowly to a week of daytime sleep) I pretty much just work from home now because I can't adhere to a regular schedule.

In high school DSPS was almost torture, so I definitely sympathize. The only sleep I got was naps during school, and the few hours of sleep after school before the sun went down and my brain was "Oh hey, I know you were tired all day, but now it's dark so no sleeping for you!" My parents refused to see it as an actual condition and just said I was lazy, regardless of what my doctor said. Now that I'm in my late 20's and I've got Non-24, everyone just assumes I'm some carefree lazy guy because I can't really hold a steady job nor can I go out socializing at regular times. It kinda sucks having a serious disorder most people don't see as serious

Do you have a lot of sleep paralysis? I have bouts of SP every night, and when I was younger had them sometimes twice a night. I always wondered if it was related to my sleep disorder.

Oh wow! I am so happy that I am finally able to talk to someone else that has this and can relate to I totally know the feeling, nobody takes it seriously at all. They think that I am purposefully staying up at night for some odd reason, like I can help it. High school was horrible for me too. My teachers eventually gave up trying to wake me up when I did fall asleep. I think they knew something was wrong but never asked. This disorder is also the sole reason I dropped out of college. I have recently reapplied to try again years later but it's proving difficult, I may have to wait until next semester to start because I can't stay awake long enough to take the dang math determining test! Apparently it's been too long sense I took my SAT and they can't use it even though I got top scores.

I have sleep paralysis often, but it's not my big problem. I kinda welcome the chance to keep lying still after I wake up because I never want to get up lol. My main problem is I can only REM-cycle sleep. Because of this I always have nightmares and the sleep I do get isn't very restful. When you dream your brain is almost as active as when you're awake, not to mention the dreams frighten me so I can't relax. I have permanent bags under my eyes and the only time I feel fully invigorated is if I drink caffeine, not to mention I wake up still tired and have to force myself to get up and not go back to sleep. I also tend to wake up multiple times during my sleep. I only get about 6 hours, on average, of sleep a day except for one day a week where I sleep 12 or so hours. I feel my best on that day. I also tend to start dreaming before I am fully asleep and keep dreaming even after I wake up. Is that a part of sleep paralysis?

Btw, I noticed that you're avatar is drawn on the computer like mine and the faces look the same lmao

Haha wow, I didn't notice how similar out avatars were

My teachers in high school would always ask me if I was okay because I always looked so tired, I kind wish they would've just left me be though. School in general is always upsetting for me because it's all stuff I already know, I just wound up making bad grades anyway because I elected to sleep rather than do homework, or even not go at all. I dropped out of high school my sophomore year because of it and got depressed, but then I took my GED, got a perfect score, and got top scores on my ACT, so I was accepted into university while I was still sophomore age... so it felt like things were looking up. At least, it blew people's minds because apparently everyone thinks if you sleep through class that automatically makes you an idiot Unfortunately I dropped out of college too. The dorm life and the strict class schedules made it too difficult and my grades dropped. I'm wanting to go back also. Have you looked into online classes at your local universities? I found out that a few of the schools near me offer most of their classes online now, so I can complete assignments on my own time. Thank god for the internet Now I just need to save up the money.

As for nightmares, I'm with you on that one! I used to have nightmares every time I went to sleep, and it carried over into my waking life by giving me weird phobias of the things that were in my recurring nightmares. I still have them sometimes, but it's more weekly now than daily. It seems to be affected by my dream journaling - I refuse to acknowledge or write down any nightmares I have and only focus on remembering and describing the regular dreams. So far, it seems to be having a positive effect.

I'm not sure if dreaming after you wake up is a part of sleep paralysis, but I think I know what you mean. Like when you wake up, but instead of getting out of bed you lay there relaxing in and out of consciousness only to have another dream you remember? That happens to me a lot, not sure if it's SP-related, but if it is, it's definitely one of the perks right up there with how easy it is to lucid dream

Oh I love how easy it is to lucid dream. It's my one way to have a nice dream, though there still overshadowed with bad things and grey skies. One thing I've noticed is that in every dream the sky is always gray.

I tried online classes, but I never really took to it. I wish I was good with online, then I wouldn't have to worry about trying to get to class, ugh. I don't know, I just do better in a class setting. Ya, a lot of people assume in an idiot. They talk to me like I'm a little kid sometimes, then I say something intelligent and they kind of just stand there staring then change the subject. Inward smug moment lol. The only people I've actually gotten mad at when they did this was my parents but they never take what I say to heart. They've gotten out of it the older I got though.

I completely get the developing phobias because of your nightmares. I never used to be afraid of sharks until they started frequenting my dreams. Now I am so afraid of them it should be classified as a shark phobia. I won't even go into the ocean without coaxing anymore, and I love swimming. I know that sharks are misunderstood, but I can't shake the fear. One dream a shark grew legs and arms and chased me around trying to eat me D:

Ya my waking dreams are just like that. Only on very few occasions have I actually had a full on hallucination. Usually my eyes will still be partly open and I will feel awake, even though I'm technically not, when I start drifting into sleep, same when I come out of it, then my dreams will play kind of before my eyes but at the same time their still in head. Odd to explain . It does have its perks too, like you said. The easy lucid dreaming is one, and another thing was I used to be dead afraid of thrill rides, then my friends literally dragged me on a looping roller coaster by my arms. The only reason I even let them was because I had had some vivid dreams where I rode thrill rides, even though I never had, and loved it. Turns out I really do love it in real life. I'm glad I gave it a chance, it was all because of my dream.

I was re reading your first post about the 24 hour thing, and I don't think mine has progressed that far yet, but I was wondering were you at a point like I'm at, where you had to fix your sleeping squedule yourself, and when you did how hard was it? Sometimes I will manage to stay awake all though the next day and fall asleep at the right time, in the beginning of the night, but then I usually I only sleep a few hours then I'm up for the rest of the night and don't fall asleep again until in the morning. Some instances I will successfully sleep through the night then I will be awake for a few hours, then, even though I'm wide awake, I will fall asleep for another 5 hours through the rest of the morning and midday then wake up when my internal clock is set to, which is at about 4 pm.

Eh sorry for late reply, my brain was like "Hey Brony... you gunna sleep now :3" and I passed out at my computer desk. I have a massive migraine now.. but whatever. I started being afraid to sleep when I had this one extremely disturbing, graphic nightmare, it didn't even reoccur, it's just I don't want to expeirence the pain I felt in the nightmare again (here it is if you want to read it Nightmare #2 - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views it's very short). The fear of sleeping/dreaming only comes back when I'm studying lucid dreaming >_> which sucks. However, I think tonight I'm just gonna go say 'f*ck it' and attempt to do a WBTB lucid dream... also thanks for the info on your condition *your first post*, it's interesting, but seems very sad. I hope some of your friends at-least have some what of an understanding of what you have.

Also, on a side note... I think both of your guys avatars are adorable xD.

Ah that sucks. I hate when dreams are scary enough to make you afraid of sleep. Thanks for your concern, don't get lots of that. I wish my friends had an understanding of what I have, hopefully one day. Good luck with your lucid dreaming, it can be very enjoyable. If your up for a tip, when you lucid dream don't concentrate too hard or you may loose the dream and wake up. I hate when that happens

Had another attempt to fix my schedule today, I managed to stay awake all the way to 12 o'clock noon before I passed out. Yesterday I only made it to 9am, so, progress! I also woke up at the same time I did yesterday, making it a total of a 6 hour sleep, so hopefully I will make it to 9 pm tomorrow before I pass out, heres hoping! I was supposed to go to my moms office today and drop off two letters, needless to say I never got to do that oh, the annoying road of normality.

Still, congrats on the progress! And I almost had another lucid a few hours ago... but my dog kept barking and interupted my progress into my lucid dream... uhg. It's a bit late, but I guess that's good in a way because my body is ready to fall asleep, so it can probably relax much easier.

And as an empath, everytime I read about your mother basically denying that you have anything makes me angry,I just can't stand the thought of a parent ignoring a condition that affects their child's life so obviously and drastically, I mean it's not even that hard to accept! Accepting it would just mean accepting the fact that your body clock is different from others, thats it. God damn it..

Sorry. Anyway like I said before, great progress! Keep going,

Aw silly barking doggy lol. Keep trying but don't try to force anything. It will happen, you have to let it. Thanks for the empathy, my mom can be very difficult. I could complain about her for hours but that won't get me anywhere. I don't get it either, it's not like it's anything I can help or be ashamed of, my sleeping is just different. I don't know, it baffles me.

Thanks, you keep going as well.

Do you get plenty of exercise everyday? Is this like a new age label? It seems the same as insomnia to me. Just a little more specific about the internal clock... but most insomniacs could fall under this label... myself included. Stay up for 2 days straight and then go to sleep at 10-11 at night. Then see if you can fall asleep at that time the next day. heheh Actually eating well and exercise is what has helped me. It is hard to adjust your sleep schedule sometimes no doubt.

Originally Posted by Michael

Do you get plenty of exercise everyday? Is this like a new age label? It seems the same as insomnia to me. Just a little more specific about the internal clock... but most insomniacs could fall under this label... myself included. Stay up for 2 days straight and then go to sleep at 10-11 at night. Then see if you can fall asleep at that time the next day. heheh Actually eating well and exercise is what has helped me. It is hard to adjust your sleep schedule sometimes no doubt.

I'm not an insomniac, I have been studied and diagnosed. I have seen therapists, I know what I have. I have a healthy diet and I have exercised regularly and it indeed helped me to expend any extra energy but didn't really help with the falling asleep when I wanted to. Insomniacs only have problems for a short amount of time, this condition starts when you are a little kid and stays with you your entire life, no matter what. Staying up for days then going to sleep at night is the way I usually try to fix it but that only works half of the time. The other half of the time I will stay up until the next night and try to go to sleep and I either can't no matter how hard I try then fall asleep the next morning anyway, or I do go to sleep and then get up in the morning then proceed to fall back asleep 2 or 3 hours later even though I got a full nights sleep then wake up in the late evening anyway. It's very hard to fix my schedule, which frustrates me on a daily basis.

Originally Posted by DarkKiky0

I tried online classes, but I never really took to it. I wish I was good with online, then I wouldn't have to worry about trying to get to class, ugh. I don't know, I just do better in a class setting.

Hmmm, what was it about online classes that you didn't like and weren't good at? I haven't done any yet, but I just assumed they were like regular classes only without a set schedule. I'd be terrified of saving up my money for online classes only to waste it because I suck at it

Originally Posted by DarkKiky0

I completely get the developing phobias because of your nightmares. I never used to be afraid of sharks until they started frequenting my dreams. Now I am so afraid of them it should be classified as a shark phobia. I won't even go into the ocean without coaxing anymore, and I love swimming. I know that sharks are misunderstood, but I can't shake the fear. One dream a shark grew legs and arms and chased me around trying to eat me D:

That's how it was with me, too I once had a vivid lucid nightmare where I was being dragged under the ocean, for miles and miles, and the creepiness of how deep the ocean really was got to me and now I never go in the ocean. My most recurring nightmare involves grey aliens and I always get moments of terror where I feel like they're behind me.

Originally Posted by DarkKiky0

I was re reading your first post about the 24 hour thing, and I don't think mine has progressed that far yet, but I was wondering were you at a point like I'm at, where you had to fix your sleeping squedule yourself, and when you did how hard was it? Sometimes I will manage to stay awake all though the next day and fall asleep at the right time, in the beginning of the night, but then I usually I only sleep a few hours then I'm up for the rest of the night and don't fall asleep again until in the morning. Some instances I will successfully sleep through the night then I will be awake for a few hours, then, even though I'm wide awake, I will fall asleep for another 5 hours through the rest of the morning and midday then wake up when my internal clock is set to, which is at about 4 pm.

I tried for a while to fix it. I went to sleep disorder specialist and he gave me the sleep log books and different techniques to try, I also used natural melatonin supplements, which worked better for me than prescription sleeping pills like Lunesta. One of the techniques was trying to get myself to sleep an hour earlier and wake up an hour earlier each day until I was back at a normal pattern, but it never really worked for long. Sometimes I could get my pattern to normal for a couple weeks at a time but it always switched back over to my DSPS pattern, which was fall-asleep at 9am, wake-up at 6pm. When I did force myself awake all day, it was like what you said, I'd sleep for only a couple hours at night before my brain woke me up, and it was very unrestful sleep.

After a while I just gave up because it was too hard, and I let my body sleep when it wanted to. Since I had daytime responsibilities, that meant just dealing with the few hours of sleep I could get in daily between classes/study. I often think that's what caused me to develop Non-24, like it was my brain's way of dealing with what it had while trying to find a way to get me at least eight hours of sleep. I don't know though, my doctor said it's not known what causes DSPS to develop into Non-24. But it happening is pretty rare, so you probably don't have to worry about it since you're trying to fix your pattern. Have you been to any sleep disorder specialists? They can help you with some personalized techniques that might help at least a little (or give you an overnight sleep study to really get into detail if you can fork over that kind of cash)

The thing with the online classes was I wasn't really learning anything because the teachers would post the homework assignment and what to read to learn about what the assignment was about and I found it difficult to learn all this way. I just do better when I have someone to listen to.

Ah nightmare induced paranoia. You gotta just love it lol

That's my bodies preferred sleeping time too lol The sleeping and hour later each day until you get to the time you want was the way I was told to do it also but it was just so annoying I usually try to fix it by staying up throughout the day until the next night then going to sleep then, but as you already read that only works about 50 percent of the time. It's the only way that I keep with though.

I wish I could just let my body do what it wants but then I don't think I would have any life at all instead of just when my schedule is fixed. What annoys me the most is when I end up successfully staying up all through the day then settle down at night to sleep, but then I can't sleep and end up not being able to sleep until the the next morning after that. Blah! I have seen a therapist for my sleeping problem, but she kept concentrating on how to try and fix it by making me do things that kept me happy because she thinks its all brought on by depression, but the depression is brought on by the DSPS not the other way around, so that wasn't helping me. She didn't want to try to help me manage it at all, and the doctors kept trying to give me narcotics to make me sleep when nothing worked. I've had sleep studies done but all they determined is that I don't have sleep apnea and my brain only experiences the REM cycle. I don't know how sleep apnea has anything to do with DSPS, I guess they were eliminating any other problems?

Over all, my experience with doctors is not positive. In the end I discovered that it's best for me to just manage it with the best techniques I know on my own. There is no known fix for it, and I don't want to be a test subject like they tried to make me. They were planning all these tests and I just suddenly felt overwhelmed, like I was going to get turned into a lab rat. Guess they don't see many people with DSPS. The most I let them do was keep tract of my schedule and sleeping habits to determine what I had then tell me that management was the only real thing to do. My mom was the one who sent me to a therapist and doctors to take meds and get my brain picked for reasons why I was depressed to try to fix me. She just doesn't believe it's not fixable. I've accepted it.

Originally Posted by DarkKiky0

I'm not an insomniac, I have been studied and diagnosed. I have seen therapists, I know what I have. I have a healthy diet and I have exercised regularly and it indeed helped me to expend any extra energy but didn't really help with the falling asleep when I wanted to. Insomniacs only have problems for a short amount of time, this condition starts when you are a little kid and stays with you your entire life, no matter what. Staying up for days then going to sleep at night is the way I usually try to fix it but that only works half of the time. The other half of the time I will stay up until the next night and try to go to sleep and I either can't no matter how hard I try then fall asleep the next morning anyway, or I do go to sleep and then get up in the morning then proceed to fall back asleep 2 or 3 hours later even though I got a full nights sleep then wake up in the late evening anyway. It's very hard to fix my schedule, which frustrates me on a daily basis.

That's not true that insomniacs only have the problem for a short period. And I still call your condition insomnia... lol. They are always making new words for things.

Ah, not thinking you'd have a life is no way to think! Before my DSPS went rogue on me I was planning out different careers that would involve working at night. Nobody wants to work the graveyard shift, so you already have an advantage in that area. The major I was going for was criminal justice or forensics, working nights in some CSI lab somewhere, there's also some good stuff in the medical field. You just gotta find out what you like and then research professions in that field that works nights. Society wants me to sleep only at night, well, to that I say NAY!

That sucks that your doctors weren't very understanding, that kinda thing can make all the difference when you're feeling crappy. I definitely get the depression thing, I saw a therapist for a while who thought my sleep problems were due to my high levels of stress, no matter how much I tried to tell him my stress was caused by my sleep problems. Luckily the sleep specialist I saw later was really nice and knowledgeable, even though he couldn't help me much, it was still nice to have someone see it my way. When I had my sleep study done they also were looking for sleep apnea, I guess it's something that gets misdiagnosed often or has the same symptoms, not really sure though because I don't know anything about sleep apnea. That was one of the only tests I had done. My mom and I were the opposite of you and your mom, I wanted as many different tests done as possible so I could be normal again, but she was all against it. (Probably because she thought there was nothing wrong and I was just being a lazy teenager) Did you ever try the light therapy, where they give you this super-bright lamp thing you're supposed to stare at in the mornings? My doctor recommended it but my insurance wouldn't cover that so I never got to try it

That's not true that insomniacs only have the problem for a short period. And I still call your condition insomnia... lol. They are always making new words for things.

I have been told by a doctor that they thought I had insomnia, but over a period of study they realized what it was. I'm not the only one with this so they didn't just make this term up when they found out what my problem was, there are significant differences between DSPS and insomnia. If you don't believe me then look it up. Also, part of the definition of insomnia is "Insomnia can occur at any age, but it is particularly common in the elderly. Insomnia can be short term (up to three weeks) or long term (above 3–4 weeks), which can lead to memory problems, depression, irritability and an increased risk of heart disease and automobile related accidents." It happens in bouts and is not constant and results in memory loss. I have an excellent memory, I have a problem with falling asleep itself, not sleeping in general as in I can only fall asleep when my internal clock is set to, unless I manage it the way I have mentioned. I fall sleep everyday and don't have days and days of sleeplessness. My boyfriend has had insomnia before, it only lasted almost a month and has never bothered him again, and it was triggered by an outside influence. DSPS is genetic, as in I was born with it. If you are going to be difficult and try to tell me what I do and don't have then you have no business on my thread. Sorry for being so forward but I have no patience for people like you. I'm not here to argue or discuss whether or not I have this, I know I have it and I'm here to discuss a way to keep it managed. Please stop being difficult, I deal with enough people like you in person.

Ashikael, I know my way of thinking can tend to be negative. I know I need to stop thinking that way but it gets hard . I was considering professions that involve me working at night, but when I did a deep thinking session to figure out what I want to be I discovered I really want to be a teacher for elementary schoolers. I know they have night classes but those are for older people and I would be so unhappy if I did that. What really started my depression into overdrive right after I dropped out of college because my whole life I wanted to be a veterinarian, but did I not have a talent for any of the medical classes, not to mention I found it hard to get to the classes, but we already talked about that anyway, I had to deal with the fact that I would never be what I always dreamed of being. I cheered up though when I realized I could still help animals my own way, but then I was dream jobless. Cheered up when I figured out my new passion, but now I'm disheartened because I have to constantly worry about managing the condition. I am ever so determined though to be a teacher one day and I don't want to give up. If it turns out that I have to accept the facts and start thinking again about night time jobs then I will accept it but I haven't given up on my teacher dream.

lol it seems like a theme that mothers refuse to believe theres anything wrong with their children. I wish she would accept it, It would be so refreshing and lessen my stress some if she understood and discussed it realistically with me. I never herd of the light therapy before, what does staring into a super bright lamp do exactly?? I am genuinely curious

Well that's not true at all, you can definitely work as a teacher or in a veterinary office If you live in a big city, they usually have night classes for children, especially in the summer, and after-school classes for kids whose parents work all day. Both my parents had full time jobs, so when I was a kid I went right from school to something called a latchkey program, where they had teachers that would be there taking care of us from like 5pm to 10ish. Also, if you want to work at a vet office but can't do the medical classes, have you thought of being a vet tech or assistant? There are always ER centers for pets open at night and they always seem to need assistants that can work late at night until early in the AM. I know the one near me is always hiring because nobody here wants to work that late. Never give up! Never surrender!

Light therapy involves this bright light box you sit in front of as soon as you wake up, it's supposed to help control circadian rhythm but they also prescribe it for unrelated things like depression, blood problems, and skin disorders. I can't post links yet since I've been here under a week, but there's a good article on Wikipedia if you do a search there for Phototherapy. It's supposed to be good for Non-24 as well, but like I said my insurance won't cover it

Wow really? I had no idea they had night classes for children, and I thought about being a vet tech but where I am they weren't looking for any. I may actually look into the night class for children, that sounds so ideal

The light therapy sounds like something I could look into as well, it's at least worth a try. I doubt my insurance will cover it too, but the Egyptians didn't build the pyramids by just brushing it off as not possible and not even trying.

It's been so great having these talks with you . It makes a world of difference to have someone to talk to about all this, it's all just been building up inside. Feelings need to be released, it's not healthy for things to build up like that, you know. I used to let my feelings build up when I was younger, but then I would have moments where my feelings would overflow then explode and things got very ugly. It's been bothering me not being able to talk about this, hurray I also think it is so crazy how many similarities we have with this. This is all very refreshing for me.

My attempt to fix my scheduled yesterday failed, I did go another hour before falling asleep, but I also woke up an hour later. Somewhat progress? lol good and bad news. Today I am going to my cousins baby shower, which I am thrilled about because it gives me a good chance to stay awake until night time. The bad part, If I do indeed succeed (hehe that rhymed) then I won't be able to reply to any new thread messages until probably around 7 to 9 am tomorrow morning. Just felt like I needed to give that heads up, thanks for all the support

This thread right here is the perfect example of why I love the internet. Brings like, and unlike people together. Anyway, here is a picture of my dog or somthing:

Awwww cute doggie :3 and that was what I was kinda trying to achieve, yay! As a reply to your dog picture, here is a picture of the cats I used to own.

stephscats.jpg

I cannot figure out how to make it bigger on the post, clicking it will do that for you though the silver male closest up is named Jayfeather, the other silver one is a female named Silverstream and is sister to Jayfeather, and the brown, long haired, tabby male's name is Chopin. I miss them so very much